Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Wolfgang]

Had one and sold it. Screen is too small and FFT suck. Megazoom is nice though.

If Sir wishes to look into the frequency domain, then Sir should really look at a Spectrum Analyser. We have them in all types: 20kg, 30kg, and so on, but my personal favourite is the Alabama 'StaysFast' at 110 lb - American of course, but still a very substantial instrument.

If Sir finds the screens too small might I suggest that Sir visits my cousin at his optometry practice, where Sir will also find some nice heavy vintage tortoiseshell celluloid frames - my cousin can even match the year of manufacture to Sir's favourite 3¹/₂ digit bench DVM or AvoMeter.  If Sir is into Americana, I believe that he currently has some rather fine original 1960s RayBan spectacle frames in stock, as well as the ever popular sunglasses of the same brand for when Sir needs to preserve his sight's dark adaption for viewing particularly fast and dim CRT traces.

... Nah, not anymore. The new classy scopes with 16bit, a few 10Gs and high bandwidth do a super job at spectrum analysis in the HF range, also for noise analysis and so on. Soundcard crap ? Not anymore. And a waveform tells a lot more than a spectrum alone ...

[0culus]

I got my copy of AoE X chapters the other day. Looks like a pretty cool reference for a lot of topics you don't often see talked about. 

[mnementh]

Oh gewd laird... whoot ‘ave I wrought...? 

mnem
*toddles off to ded*

[mnementh]

@Kosmic - you know this market a lot better than me. Do you have a line on anything better in this price range? Up to $250 for this level of quality I think I can justify... any more than that and it REALLY needs to be an effing amazing deal.[/i][/b]

Personally, I would keep my money and wait.

Remember it's rated at 50Mhz Single Shot Bandwidth 

Yes. I paid $125 more for the 1054Z, and have no regrets there either... but I do suspect this is a step up from that in terms of actual fidelity.

What does the Ferengi think? Should I at least be able to break even or close to it if I sell it in 6 months?

mnem
*knocks self unconscious with a proton mallet*

[tautech]

Even a Siglent SDS1052/1102 is ~US$340 to get it to me; and then I MAY have to pay undisclosed import fees. 
mnem
*got the feelin' kinda hollow, empty spot on my bench, no 'scope to fiddle with blues*

Don't even give those a second thought as a SDS1202X-E like bd has got are worlds ahead of those old models......sorry med but they are.
Twice I've bought SDS1102CML+ in and they just take ages to move and now down to just 2 units left no more will grace my shop.

[BU508A]

https://youtu.be/vZb8H6YYCJc?t=570

"Corona discharge from 5G cause the corona virus" 

Hmm just realised the video was pulled down from youtube! It's working they are doing something

Now we need to report the other 200 videos 

Or watch instead Shahriar from TSP:

[bd139]

@bd - What's your idea of "cheap enough?" What I'm seeing on fleaBay right now this scope in any kind of usable condition is at least $350 to get it to me. (remember, Canada  )   I'm thinking to use this until I get my bench back; maybe even kick the 1054Zed down the road if I like it as much as Dave did in that vid. I've gotta admit; the UI response I saw there did make me more than a little jelly after using that Rigol doorstop for a daily driver.

I've got the "shit logic analyzer" in my Hantek 6022BE... and any Siglent in this price range is not much better than the Hantek either. Anything I've seen new that was appreciably better and had adequate memory depth for its sampling rate is ~$400 or more; plus no MSO functionality. Even a Siglent DS1052/1102 is ~US$340 to get it to me; and then I MAY have to pay undisclosed import fees. 

Think I paid 130 GBP for my 54645D so about 260 CAD. That was with manuals, handle, bag and in very good condition



Sold it for 250 GBP about a month later.

[bd139]

I got my copy of AoE X chapters the other day. Looks like a pretty cool reference for a lot of topics you don't often see talked about. 

Excellent book all round. Much useful info in it.

BTW thanks for the chipotle sauce recommendation. Managed to find a bottle in local supermarket. Rather good 

[McBryce]

Worth it or not:

HP/Agilent 54622D 100MHz, 100MS/S 4MPTs MSO (Probably bare scope, no leads) from reputable vendor with warranty for US$225 delivered?



I just watched Dave gush about one in a video from 2014... sounds still pretty capable even today, especially compared against the cheap schizz from China.

mnem
moo?

Great scope, used one for years at work. Whether it's worth it or not? Without the Digital cable I'd try to push the price down.

@Cerebus: You don't choose a scope because of it's FFT capability. If the frequency domain is that important to you, buy something that was built specifically for that.

McBryce.

 

[bd139]

The FFT is useful as in indicator for RF apps at relatively low frequencies. I managed to do real useful measurements with the DS1054Z one i.e. mixer product filtering. Not spectrum analyser good but good enough for the task at hand.

[VK5RC]

Had one and sold it. Screen is too small and FFT suck. Megazoom is nice though.

If Sir wishes to look into the frequency domain, then Sir should really look at a Spectrum Analyser. We have them in all types: 20kg, 30kg, and so on, but my personal favourite is the Alabama 'StaysFast' at 110 lb - American of course, but still a very substantial instrument.

If Sir finds the screens too small might I suggest that Sir visits my cousin at his optometry practice, where Sir will also find some nice heavy vintage tortoiseshell celluloid frames - my cousin can even match the year of manufacture to Sir's favourite 3¹/₂ digit bench DVM or AvoMeter.  If Sir is into Americana, I believe that he currently has some rather fine original 1960s RayBan spectacle frames in stock, as well as the ever popular sunglasses of the same brand for when Sir needs to preserve his sight's dark adaption for viewing particularly fast and dim CRT traces.

... Nah, not anymore. The new classy scopes with 16bit, a few 10Gs and high bandwidth do a super job at spectrum analysis in the HF range, also for noise analysis and so on. Soundcard crap ? Not anymore. And a waveform tells a lot more than a spectrum alone ...

Re time vs frequency data display - aren't they just displaying the same information in different ways within the limits of the method of collection? Spectral analysis to me seems bad for low frequency / DC. Time domain - has not great S/N ratio, and limited microwave application.

[Wolfgang]

Had one and sold it. Screen is too small and FFT suck. Megazoom is nice though.

If Sir wishes to look into the frequency domain, then Sir should really look at a Spectrum Analyser. We have them in all types: 20kg, 30kg, and so on, but my personal favourite is the Alabama 'StaysFast' at 110 lb - American of course, but still a very substantial instrument.

If Sir finds the screens too small might I suggest that Sir visits my cousin at his optometry practice, where Sir will also find some nice heavy vintage tortoiseshell celluloid frames - my cousin can even match the year of manufacture to Sir's favourite 3¹/₂ digit bench DVM or AvoMeter.  If Sir is into Americana, I believe that he currently has some rather fine original 1960s RayBan spectacle frames in stock, as well as the ever popular sunglasses of the same brand for when Sir needs to preserve his sight's dark adaption for viewing particularly fast and dim CRT traces.

... Nah, not anymore. The new classy scopes with 16bit, a few 10Gs and high bandwidth do a super job at spectrum analysis in the HF range, also for noise analysis and so on. Soundcard crap ? Not anymore. And a waveform tells a lot more than a spectrum alone ...

Re time vs frequency data display - aren't they just displaying the same information in different ways within the limits of the method of collection? Spectral analysis to me seems bad for low frequency / DC. Time domain - has not great S/N ratio, and limited microwave application.

... the same information - not quite. A waveform also has phase info, just a spectrum does not. With enough bits in the scopes the dynamic range gets large enough to be usable. A "perfect" scope would make spectrum analyzers redundant - we are not there yet, but we are on the way. Keysight would just *love* to sell you a 110GHz scope (1.5Mio€/4ch) instead of a 110GHz spectrum analyzer (250K€/1CH)  See there latest appnotes for their high speed realtime stuff.

[Cerebus]

@Cerebus: You don't choose a scope because of it's FFT capability. If the frequency domain is that important to you, buy something that was built specifically for that.

It wasn't me advocating choosing a scope for its FFT, in fact I said (humorously, IMHO) the exact opposite.

[Wolfgang]

@Cerebus: You don't choose a scope because of it's FFT capability. If the frequency domain is that important to you, buy something that was built specifically for that.

It wasn't me advocating choosing a scope for its FFT, in fact I said (humorously, IMHO) the exact opposite.

Cant see your point why a scope with high res and good FFT should be worse than a spectrum analyzer. I use it very much to analyze noise stuff, e.g.. Its perfect there, because spectrum analyzers usually dont go very low, soundcards are just awful and full of spurs and the old FFT analyzers are not made anymore. Keysight S-Series has an absolutely usable spectrum analyzer built in as a standard feature. Another point is that classic spectrum analyzers have really bad data below 100kHz (uncal preamp, 1/f noise, less dynamic range, amplitude precision, high input VSWR). Where max. frequency range and dynamics is OK, scopes will be the choices of the future, IMHO.

[AVGresponding]

@AVGresponding Could I please ask you if you'd be so kind as to measure the voltages on pin 26 and pin 32 of your MAX134 for me please? I'm getting 1.227V on pin 32 and pin 26 gives 670mV.

Yep, sorry just got home from work a little while ago and been playing with an electronic keypad lock one of my colleagues scored for me. It's not as secure as it could have been, as the programming code hadn't been altered from the default, so anyone could have reprogrammed it if they knew it!   
Sadly the backplate has been broken, so if I can't get a replacement I'll have to come up with an alternative if I want to use it. One of these: https://www.jwsltd.co.uk/act-10-keypad-access-control-276-p.html


I'll pop the hood on the 4503 after I've had some lunch, and we'll see what we can see.

[Kosmic]

@Kosmic - you know this market a lot better than me. Do you have a line on anything better in this price range? Up to $250 for this level of quality I think I can justify... any more than that and it REALLY needs to be an effing amazing deal.[/i][/b]

Personally, I would keep my money and wait.

Remember it's rated at 50Mhz Single Shot Bandwidth 

Yes. I paid $125 more for the 1054Z, and have no regrets there either... but I do suspect this is a step up from that in terms of actual fidelity.

What does the Ferengi think? Should I at least be able to break even or close to it if I sell it in 6 months?

mnem
*knocks self unconscious with a proton mallet*

Personally, I don't think it's an upgrade. Those old sampling scopes (or quasi-sampling scope in that case) are now completely deprecated. Higher than 50Mhz you would have signal fidelity mostly on repetitive signals. Also, the integrated logic analyzer is not able to decode anything.

I think the new economic 200Mhz scopes from Siglent / Rigol / Owon would do a far better job for not a lot more money.

[Specmaster]

@AVGresponding Could I please ask you if you'd be so kind as to measure the voltages on pin 26 and pin 32 of your MAX134 for me please? I'm getting 1.227V on pin 32 and pin 26 gives 670mV.

Yep, sorry just got home from work a little while ago and been playing with an electronic keypad lock one of my colleagues scored for me. It's not as secure as it could have been, as the programming code hadn't been altered from the default, so anyone could have reprogrammed it if they knew it!   
Sadly the backplate has been broken, so if I can't get a replacement I'll have to come up with an alternative if I want to use it. One of these: https://www.jwsltd.co.uk/act-10-keypad-access-control-276-p.html


I'll pop the hood on the 4503 after I've had some lunch, and we'll see what we can see.

You also need the actual door locks themselves don't you? Or are you planning to use it in a different fashion?

Edit
The DCV calibration has held up over the weekend as these shots taken just now indicate.

[Kosmic]

@Cerebus: You don't choose a scope because of it's FFT capability. If the frequency domain is that important to you, buy something that was built specifically for that.

It wasn't me advocating choosing a scope for its FFT, in fact I said (humorously, IMHO) the exact opposite.

Cant see your point why a scope with high res and good FFT should be worse than a spectrum analyzer. I use it very much to analyze noise stuff, e.g.. Its perfect there, because spectrum analyzers usually dont go very low, soundcards are just awful and full of spurs and the old FFT analyzers are not made anymore. Keysight S-Series has an absolutely usable spectrum analyzer built in as a standard feature. Another point is that classic spectrum analyzers have really bad data below 100kHz (uncal preamp, 1/f noise, less dynamic range, amplitude precision, high input VSWR). Where max. frequency range and dynamics is OK, scopes will be the choices of the future, IMHO.

Also a lot of Spectrum analyzer don't support DC voltage on the input (at least mine doesn't). So you need a external DC bloc where it's already integrated on the scope. When making a quick measurement I find it a lot more convenient to do it on the scope.

[AVGresponding]

You also need the actual door locks themselves don't you? Or are you planning to use it in a different fashion?

Edit
The DCV calibration has held up over the weekend as these shots taken just now indicate.

I get 1.219V and 667mV, which seems close enough to me.


These things pretty much all have volt-free contact outputs (SPCO relays) so you can implement your own solution. Standard maglocks work at the same voltages as the keypads (12-24V ac/dc nominal), they're easy enough to come by.

Not sure what I want to use it for yet, I mainly wanted one to play with really, pure curiosity.


EDIT: The cal holding over the weekend does make me wonder if there was some stubborn conductive schmoo trapped somewhere, under an ic socket maybe, that your repeated IPA dousings gradually removed.

[jxjbsd]

I got this today.
It can be used in Tek 7904 7704 large oscilloscope
Do you want to buy a horse for this saddle?

[mnementh]

Congratulations guys... you talked me out of it. 

After looking at the cost of the leads (even the ones from that guy on fleaBay) I think they bought the damned thing just to get the leads, and that's why the 'scope is so "reasonably priced".

mnem
*toddles off to shop fatbikes & wibble*

[bd139]

Congratulations on your avoidance 

I'm bored. Looking at Ducky keyboards now 

[mnementh]

mnem
 

[Cerebus]

@Cerebus: You don't choose a scope because of it's FFT capability. If the frequency domain is that important to you, buy something that was built specifically for that.

It wasn't me advocating choosing a scope for its FFT, in fact I said (humorously, IMHO) the exact opposite.

Cant see your point why a scope with high res and good FFT should be worse than a spectrum analyzer. <snip>

You probably can't see it because I didn't make that point.

Why are people so determined today to put words into my mouth that I didn't say? 

[Specmaster]

You also need the actual door locks themselves don't you? Or are you planning to use it in a different fashion?

Edit
The DCV calibration has held up over the weekend as these shots taken just now indicate.

I get 1.219V and 667mV, which seems close enough to me.


These things pretty much all have volt-free contact outputs (SPCO relays) so you can implement your own solution. Standard maglocks work at the same voltages as the keypads (12-24V ac/dc nominal), they're easy enough to come by.

Not sure what I want to use it for yet, I mainly wanted one to play with really, pure curiosity.

Thanks for checking those voltages for me and I agree with you, they are close enough. It looks as if the MAX134 is the guilty part after all. Soon find out now hopefully, it wont take long for the new one to arrive.

I've got my eye on some more matching gear to hopefully join it 

I've discovered that the 8840A is not the best meter to go poking about inside it checking voltages as the input impedance is so high that if the measure the higher voltage first (in this case, 1.22V), it struggles to read the lower voltage afterwards and takes a long time for the voltage to decay, whereas the Brymen works perfectly