Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[bd139]

Talking of which, quick 3DP I did during a meeting (freecad as this my laptop dies on Fusion 360)..

Under desk charger holder for Lenovo 65W adapters



Screw in with 2x #6 1/" tapping screws, plonk charger on it and cable tie around it. Job done.  Printed and tested.

[tautech]

Yup. This is EXACTLY the behavior I was talking aboot. Be very careful when using it with the flame adjusted like this; it'll be very "poppy" when the tip gets anywhere near the work, and it's running way too lean right at the corona, so very easy to burn the radial mixing fins in the core of the tip. But at least you got it to stay lit!

It seemed a bit finicky to get going for sure and I vaguely remember the mate's one needed a certain mode of attack to get it to perform so I'll catch up with him for a refresher. 

I was afraid your BBQ reg would eff with your head at those pressures/flow; surprised it didn't completely lock up on you every time you opened the valves, honestly.

It nearly went for flying lessons for sure but the tightwad in me placed it back in the never throw away pile. 
Although at the time Saskia's remedy of 50g of cee four did go through my mind. 

One other thing to consider; if you're planning to do any gas welding with this, DON'T.

Very aware LPG Oxy is unsuitable for fusion welding. 

A PROPERLY set up Oxy-Propane rig can cut heavier metal than a similar Oxy-acetylene rig; the only limitation is the required flow. This is a mater of the mechanics of your regulator AND your LP tank, if you have the correct handle.

The handle and tip are all good and specified for LPG so only the regulator remains as the unknown as to how it will perform with LPG but initial tests shown it to be OK but as you say the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
The test tank was a little 4kg one that's well down on fill but the 9kg one will come out for any extended cutting so to have lesser chance of icing. 
This tip is only spec'ed for 1 1/4" but that's enough for the majority of work I'll need it for.

I've done my fair share of cutting to know a good bit more than the basics although the tightwad in me mostly operates with the minimum of Oxy pressure I can get away with and as this Harris torch has just the 2 controls the Oxy regulator will get more adjustments than I usually do to keep gas waste down.
It's not like this is my first cutting torch but certainly my first LPG one and first dedicated cutting only torch.

After using one of these extended torches and being able to keep further away from the heavy hot bits they give more confidence while cutting instead of the somewhat shorter cutting heads you connect to a standard Oxy torch.

Anyways, after a catchup and refresher with the buddy just down the road I'll try it in anger on a proper job and report back. 

Edit
Oh mnem, the last chart in this pdf with the 1 1/4" tip is the 2 piece LPG tip I have:
https://www.americantorchtip.com/hubfs/Oxy%20Fuel%20Cut%20Chart%20-%20Harris-2.pdf

[Saskia]

@bd139 you could also use 3M VHB tape to attach it. Very high bondage does not refer to S/M practices in this context ...

[bd139]

@bd139 you could also use 3M VHB tape to attach it. Very high bondage does not refer to S/M practices in this context ...

Yeah but that doesn't give me an excuse to print something 

[mnementh]

Easy question: what is the wavy semi-horizontal line by the red part, and why is that liquid illegal under international Protocols?

I received this in the post today, courtesy of Equipnet (may they rot in hell) and ice-tea    

   All this is to create a saturated FREON atmosphere that allows the probe to go to full 40kV instead of ca. 12kV when filled with air.

FREON is also a much better conductor of heat and this is needed to cool the divider resistor at very high voltages.Problem: FREON is *banned* under ROHS laws, IMHO. You can still get it officially, but only 1) you're authorized 2) you fill in a ton of paperwork 3) pay a boutique prize 4) proove that it will not evade to the environment. Plan B: Try to find an old refrigerator. Some of the old gas fills could be usable.

A word of caution: don't get any stupid ideas and try a modern refrigerant. Freon has a lower vapor pressure than most modern equivalents...you could be creating a handheld bomb by filling one of these probes with a modern refrigerant the probe body was not designed for. 

Very true. Thats why I wrote *old* refrigerator. 

Still not viable, unless you have a VERY expensive distillation-process refrigerant recovery machine. All refrigeration has circulating oil in the refrigerant; used as lubricant and immersion coolant for the pump in the case of consumer refrigerators.

mnem
no nuking the fridge! you saw what that did to Indy!!!

[BU508A]

Talking of which, quick 3DP I did during a meeting (freecad as this my laptop dies on Fusion 360)..

Under desk charger holder for Lenovo 65W adapters



Screw in with 2x #6 1/" tapping screws, plonk charger on it and cable tie around it. Job done.  Printed and tested.

3M SJ 3526N Klettband zum Aufkleben

[mnementh]

(SNIP)
I've done my fair share of cutting to know a good bit more than the basics although the tightwad in me mostly operates with the minimum of Oxy pressure I can get away with and as this Harris torch has just the 2 controls the Oxy regulator will get more adjustments than I usually do to keep gas waste down. It's not like this is my first cutting torch but certainly my first LPG one and first dedicated cutting only torch.

After using one of these extended torches and being able to keep further away from the heavy hot bits they give more confidence while cutting unstead for the somewhat shorter cutting heads you connect to a standard Oxy torch.

Anyways, after a catchup and refresher with the buddy just down the road I'll try it in anger on a proper job and report back. 

Yup; a full-size handle certainly does make keeping your tender bits (with oxy-fuel, ANY flesh is tender bits ) away from the hot stuff a lot easier, and makes you less reluctant to hit the cutting trigger. As you have some experience cutting, I'll assume you know better than to wear shorts, shoes with laces, etc and the tragedies that can befall the feulish. 

If you haven't, take a look at the pics I edited into my post above re: proper flame for oxy-propane; it took me a while to find representative pics online, and you had already replied by the time I finished.

Oxy-propane will not have the pronounced corona or feather as you've become accustomed to with oxy-acetylene. With a proper neutral flame, the edge of the envelope will be barely visible if at all, and your hot-spot will be much further away from the end of the central cone if leaned up to a more oxidizing flame.

mnem
 

[Wolfgang]

Question is if this oil would hurt so much.

[tautech]

(SNIP)
I've done my fair share of cutting to know a good bit more than the basics although the tightwad in me mostly operates with the minimum of Oxy pressure I can get away with and as this Harris torch has just the 2 controls the Oxy regulator will get more adjustments than I usually do to keep gas waste down. It's not like this is my first cutting torch but certainly my first LPG one and first dedicated cutting only torch.

After using one of these extended torches and being able to keep further away from the heavy hot bits they give more confidence while cutting unstead for the somewhat shorter cutting heads you connect to a standard Oxy torch.

Anyways, after a catchup and refresher with the buddy just down the road I'll try it in anger on a proper job and report back. 

Yup; a full-size handle certainly does make keeping your tender bits (with oxy-fuel, ANY flesh is tender bits ) away from the hot stuff a lot easier, and makes you less reluctant to hit the cutting trigger. As you have some experience cutting, I'll assume you know better than to wear shorts, shoes with laces, etc and the tragedies that can befall the feulish. 

If you haven't, take a look at the pics I edited into my post above re: proper flame for oxy-propane; it took me a while to find representative pics online, and you had already replied by the time I finished.

Oxy-propane will not have the pronounced corona or feather as you've become accustomed to with oxy-acetylene. With a proper neutral flame, the edge of the envelope will be barely visible if at all, and your hot-spot will be much further away from the end of the central cone if leaned up to a more oxidizing flame.

mnem
 

Been there done that and got the burn scares to prove it !
Currently nursing a small slag burn atop one foot when a wayward bastard got down me boot ! 

For sure doing any serious prolonged cutting, long trousers are needed that also overlap tops of boots.

The pic of the torch flame wasn't a very good representation of the gas mix (phone cameras lie !)when in fact after just the minute of so I played with it, it was reasonably obvious it liked more to be in the lean zone unlike an Acetylene torch.

[mnementh]

Question is if this oil would hurt so much.

As it would very likely also carry contaminants from a 50+ years old compressor, I'm going to say confidence is high. It will most likely be mineral oil, so that is not necessarily a bad thing; however, it must affect the accuracy of the probe which specifies pure freon. One would have to create a whole new calibration chart; which if one could be arsed, might as well do so with something less hassle-factor like synthetic or even purified mineral oil if one doesn't need the full 40KV rating.

Remember; back when this probe was made, Freon was NOT the massive assache we've made of it since we discovered the damage it does to the environment. 

mnem
 

[BU508A]

Question is if this oil would hurt so much.

As it would very likely also carry contaminants from a 50+ years old compressor, I'm going to say confidence is high. It will most likely be mineral oil, so that is not necessarily a bad thing; however, it must affect the accuracy of the probe which specifies pure freon. One would have to create a whole new calibration chart; which if one could be arsed, might as well do so with something less hassle-factor like synthetic or even purified mineral oil if one doesn't need the full 40KV rating.

Remember; back when this probe was made, Freon was NOT the massive assache we've made of it since we discovered the damage it does to the environment. 

mnem
 

I'm curious: why did they use Freon? is SF6 too expensive?

[mnementh]

Talking of which, quick 3DP I did during a meeting (freecad as this my laptop dies on Fusion 360)... Under desk charger holder for Lenovo 65W adapters

Screw in with 2x #6 1/" tapping screws, plonk charger on it and cable tie around it. Job done.  Printed and tested.

3M SJ 3526N Klettband zum Aufkleben   

Warm power brick, glue melts, rocks power-bricks fall, everybody dies. 

No, seriously; one of my regular gigs in San Damntonio was maintaining security stations comprised of a very similar little PC in a box; the bricks were attached to the top inside of the box with the same stuff and CONSTANTLY falling down, causing headaches. Eventually wound up completely reorganizing every last one so that the bricks could be held with non-adhesive Velcro cable wrap through clips screwed to the back of the box.

mnem
hey; job security...

[bd139]

This was one reason I didn't use tape/velcro originally. I've got 3M contact strips here and literally you'll be sitting down and something will fall off the wall and scare the shit out of you once every couple of weeks 

[Neomys Sapiens]

Question is if this oil would hurt so much.

As it would very likely also carry contaminants from a 50+ years old compressor, I'm going to say confidence is high. It will most likely be mineral oil, so that is not necessarily a bad thing; however, it must affect the accuracy of the probe which specifies pure freon. One would have to create a whole new calibration chart; which if one could be arsed, might as well do so with something less hassle-factor like synthetic or even purified mineral oil if one doesn't need the full 40KV rating.

Remember; back when this probe was made, Freon was NOT the massive assache we've made of it since we discovered the damage it does to the environment. 

mnem
 

I'm curious: why did they use Freon? is SF6 too expensive?

I'm not aware that SF6 could work that way. This application with a liquid reservoir keeping the space, which is not filled by the liquid saturated with vapour, depends on the vapour pressure and is basically a non-pressurised container. I know of SF6 only in pressurized applications.

[BU508A]

Talking of which, quick 3DP I did during a meeting (freecad as this my laptop dies on Fusion 360)... Under desk charger holder for Lenovo 65W adapters

Screw in with 2x #6 1/" tapping screws, plonk charger on it and cable tie around it. Job done.  Printed and tested.

3M SJ 3526N Klettband zum Aufkleben   

Warm power brick, glue melts, rocks power-bricks fall, everybody dies. 

No, seriously; one of my regular gigs in San Damntonio was maintaining security stations comprised of a very similar little PC in a box; the bricks were attached to the top inside of the box with the same stuff and CONSTANTLY falling down, causing headaches. Eventually wound up completely reorganizing every last one so that the bricks could be held with non-adhesive Velcro cable wrap through clips screwed to the back of the box.

mnem
hey; job security...

Yes, true. That's why I have this at home when I have to glue something together which can become warm:

https://www.jbweld.com/product/highheat-epoxy-putty



Good stuff, that. I'm using also the average stuff:
https://www.jbweld.com/product/j-b-weld-twin-tube

[Neomys Sapiens]

The scammers popping up like fecking mushrooms on fleabay atm. This one's called "pbmretailltd"

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AGILENT-HP-DSO80204B-2GHz-4-canaux-40-GSA-S-Digital-Oscilloscope-InfiniiVision/233577886397


EDIT: Looks very much like a hijacked legit account. Remember to use 2 factor authentication peeps!

EDIT: FFS 4 damn edits to clean up spelling/syntax/container errors...   

I can't help but find a 'french spammer' a somehow redundant expression.

[AVGresponding]

The scammers popping up like fecking mushrooms on fleabay atm. This one's called "pbmretailltd"

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AGILENT-HP-DSO80204B-2GHz-4-canaux-40-GSA-S-Digital-Oscilloscope-InfiniiVision/233577886397


EDIT: Looks very much like a hijacked legit account. Remember to use 2 factor authentication peeps!

EDIT: FFS 4 damn edits to clean up spelling/syntax/container errors...   

I can't help but find a 'french spammer' a somehow redundant expression.

UK address though. Clearly a copy-paste job, same pics as all the previous ones, and demanding payment in USD ofc

[Specmaster]

While my car could not ever be considered to be city car being as it weighs almost 2 tons and 4.83 metres long, but it can be very economical if given the right conditions  and today I had need to drive across the city and back and while there was some traffic about and road works etc, by and large I was able to keep rolling with minimal waiting at traffic lights etc and my car achieved 42mpg average as can seen in the photo below. On a long run I have known the car to return around 62mpg. This set me thinking that its about time the city planners and highways agencies to work together to create infrastructure that eliminates necessary delays and keeps traffic flowing freely by developing better junctions etc.

This would not only reduce dramatically the consumption of fossil fuels but better yet, slash the levels of pollution, and thus reduce the demand on the medical profession with respiratory conditions.

[Wolfgang]

Question is if this oil would hurt so much.

As it would very likely also carry contaminants from a 50+ years old compressor, I'm going to say confidence is high. It will most likely be mineral oil, so that is not necessarily a bad thing; however, it must affect the accuracy of the probe which specifies pure freon. One would have to create a whole new calibration chart; which if one could be arsed, might as well do so with something less hassle-factor like synthetic or even purified mineral oil if one doesn't need the full 40KV rating.

Remember; back when this probe was made, Freon was NOT the massive assache we've made of it since we discovered the damage it does to the environment. 

mnem
 

I'm curious: why did they use Freon? is SF6 too expensive?

Freon was easy to handle (liquid) and dirt cheap .
@mnem: If you really want a fully calibrated probe until 40kV with these old parts, you could as well buy a new one.
Cal rating always was at low frequencies, and derates very fast as frequency goes up. Someone who approaches a fat transmitter with a probe like this is a suicide candidate.
Therefore frequency dependency cal is not so much of an issue.
These parts had their best use measuring the anode voltage in old color TV sets. Anything else - be *very* wary. 

[Mr. Scram]

While my car could not ever be considered to be city car being as it weighs almost 2 tons and 4.83 metres long, but it can be very economical if given the right conditions  and today I had need to drive across the city and back and while there was some traffic about and road works etc, by and large I was able to keep rolling with minimal waiting at traffic lights etc and my car achieved 42mpg average as can seen in the photo below. On a long run I have known the car to return around 62mpg. This set me thinking that its about time the city planners and highways agencies to work together to create infrastructure that eliminates necessary delays and keeps traffic flowing freely by developing better junctions etc.

This would not only reduce dramatically the consumption of fossil fuels but better yet, slash the levels of pollution, and thus reduce the demand on the medical profession with respiratory conditions.

I do close to 60 mpg average in the city car. That includes everything. It's better when the conditions are right. The family car does about the same as yours here or somewhat worse but it's seeing less city traffic so it's not an apples to apples comparison.

[bd139]

Yeah Same. 52 here if I rag it. 65 if I’m nice to it.

[nixiefreqq]

ok.  here is a question.

am thinking about acquiring a fluke 101 to use with an hv probe.

does anyone know if that little guy has a 10 Megohm input impedance?  (tried to google it but with no result)

why a 101 for this application? 

1. with no amp ranges it is almost idiot proof.

2. it is supposed to be a very robust meter.

3. if i do penis finger it......it is cheap and easy to replace.  (once toasted my fluke 8810a when the ground lead on the probe was attached to something that looked like ground, but was not.....freaking bifocals.  did manage to repair the 8810, but don't want to again risk blowing up one of my classics.  my hp 3466a is 10 Megohm on all ranges and works great with a probe.   but losing it would upset me.)


ps am also thing about an extech mn35.  would feel no remorse putting one of those in harms way.

[bd139]

Some of the Fluke auto rangers have different impedance in different ranges. It goes from around 9 to 13M. 50/50 on that one.

[tggzzz]

Question is if this oil would hurt so much.

As it would very likely also carry contaminants from a 50+ years old compressor, I'm going to say confidence is high. It will most likely be mineral oil, so that is not necessarily a bad thing; however, it must affect the accuracy of the probe which specifies pure freon. One would have to create a whole new calibration chart; which if one could be arsed, might as well do so with something less hassle-factor like synthetic or even purified mineral oil if one doesn't need the full 40KV rating.

Remember; back when this probe was made, Freon was NOT the massive assache we've made of it since we discovered the damage it does to the environment. 

I'm curious: why did they use Freon? is SF6 too expensive?

I'm not aware that SF6 could work that way. This application with a liquid reservoir keeping the space, which is not filled by the liquid saturated with vapour, depends on the vapour pressure and is basically a non-pressurised container. I know of SF6 only in pressurized applications.

Basically yes. The key points in the manual indicate that it is the vapour which is important, not the liquid. The significance of a small amount of liquid is that it indicates the vapour is there.

[tggzzz]

Freon was easy to handle (liquid) and dirt cheap .
@mnem: If you really want a fully calibrated probe until 40kV with these old parts, you could as well buy a new one.
Cal rating always was at low frequencies, and derates very fast as frequency goes up. Someone who approaches a fat transmitter with a probe like this is a suicide candidate.
Therefore frequency dependency cal is not so much of an issue.
These parts had their best use measuring the anode voltage in old color TV sets. Anything else - be *very* wary. 

I agree about being careful in such circumstances, but that applies to more than the P6015!

Actually, compared with mainstream probes the P6015 isn't too bad w.r.t. the frequencies where derating applies.