Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[McBryce]

After all this "old Fluke with buttons" debate I had to head over to fleabay...  I picked up a working, calibrated 8060A for just €40. Now I feel much better. I was annoyed enough back then when I sold my original and regretted it just days later, but if that wasn't enough it all boiled over again when we started discussing it here and I knew something had to be done!

I can already sense that satisfying warm fuzzy feeling one gets when one presses a side button and hears the reassuring click as the other buttons release...

Back in a minute... I need some "me time"

McBryce.

[mnementh]

Ahh the next trap 

http://k6jca.blogspot.com/2018/02/counterfeit-lm2596-regulator-boards.html

Yeah, fortunately I'm loading the thing to ~25% of rated capacity, so still not too worried. That may change if I decide to add some LED lighting, but I'll burn that bridge when I get to it.

I've also got some good ol' D-Sun modules I can use... so may go that route anyways. 

mnem
 

[Cerebus]

I mean, sure the pole-dancing fire...persons... caused a bit of a stir, but they DID sell a LOT of calendars.

I'm sure they did, what with all those pictures of Vinny's girls in the bucket chain, energetically swinging buckets left and right. But don't do the whole "the ends justifies the means" bit on me. If you'd set out to do the calendar rather than it being a side effect after the event I might be more persuaded. The poor lad from the grocer's still visibly shudders every time he walks past a lamppost pole.

[AVGresponding]

After a few hours at work to make sure a fire alarm got commissioned, I came home to confront The Workbench Of Doom.

I have made an interim reorganisation.



Please excuse the lead colours, I got a crap-ton of them cheap, but only in blue and green...

Seriously impressed with the 7150, bearing in mind the 8840A is the only one in cal.

The 8000A is absent, having rejoined the repair queue...

The 4503 at least has an excuse for being so far off; the memory battery died (before I owned it) and all the cal data is gone, so it's on defaults.

The next step is to make a rack sized shelf where that stack is, for the 7065 and 7075, and I'll put all the stuff in that stack on top, side by side.

The Hameg is sitting funny as I need to get a right angled IEC plug. It should sit back quite well at that point.

[PA0PBZ]

Not sure about the large cap in the power supply section but it does seem to be blown slightly to me in the photo.

That's what it looks like to me too; my 8840 had a similarly domed reservoir cap, and it did test a bit high on capacitance and esr, when I'd swapped it out.

Yes, that 15000uf capacitor does not look too healthy. I've already inventoried the replacement caps required and the order will be submitted. And from studying the mechanical parts diagrams it appears the entire PSU pulls out from the back which should make the work a lot easier.

That is probably just a piece of plastic that was slightly too big in the first place, just push it and it will go down.

[mansaxel]

Package has done a mnem, and escaped Texas. Now in Tennessee.

Fedex normally put my Mouser deliveries in my hand no later than two working days after they escape Texas. It'll be interesting to hear when yours does actually turn up.

Status right now is "bouncing around in Memphis".

Shipment is in Roissy. That was fast. But la Métropole still isn't Sweden.

Edit: I think it's onboard a 777 that at the time of typing this is airborne west of Bastogne en route Köln.

[mnementh]

I mean, sure the pole-dancing fire...persons... caused a bit of a stir, but they DID sell a LOT of calendars.

I'm sure they did, what with all those pictures of Vinny's girls in the bucket chain, energetically swinging buckets left and right. But don't do the whole "the ends justifies the means" bit on me. If you'd set out to do the calendar rather than it being a side effect after the event I might be more persuaded. The poor lad from the grocer's still visibly shudders every time he walks past a lamppost pole.

Given that he bought 27 calendars himself, and keeps asking about the velociraptor sisters... I think the boy's just fine.    Probably just waiting for the next party; he sure seems to like it when they bite. 

mnem
mmm.... bitey... *shudder*

[Specmaster]

Just went to pick up my son from work and the local Police are out in force tonight, a riot van and squad car, lights flashing stopped a group of people walking on the footpath, another squad car parked outside the rail station, looked in my rearview mirror had another sitting right on my tail. I saw my son just coming out the retail park, so I pulled over to pick him and police slowed right up and hung back a bit. I think because my son was wearing his company uniform, they decided to leave me and drove on by. Turned the car round and drove back home and on the way back passed 2 more police cars going in the opposite direction.

I don't know for sure but it's an educated guess that they are trying make sure that we all heed the government advice and stay at home.

[SilverSolder]

Just went to pick up my son from work and the local Police are out in force tonight, a riot van and squad car, lights flashing stopped a group of people walking on the footpath, another squad car parked outside the rail station, looked in my rearview mirror had another sitting right on my tail. I saw my son just coming out the retail park, so I pulled over to pick him and police slowed right up and hung back a bit. I think because my son was wearing his company uniform, they decided to leave me and drove on by. Turned the car round and drove back home and on the way back passed 2 more police cars going in the opposite direction.

I don't know for sure but it's an educated guess that they are trying make sure that we all heed the government advice and stay at home.

The lock-down may also an opportunity for criminals to "visit" commercial premises that are left unoccupied?

[bd139]

Especially out in Essex. 

Random question. DC clamp meters good to 40A. Any suggestions? Got something I need to measure that I don’t want to disconnect.

Edit: don’t expect something expensive as this is a one shot measurement

[Specmaster]

Especially out in Essex. 

Random question. DC clamp meters good to 40A. Any suggestions? Got something I need to measure that I don’t want to disconnect.

Uni-T UT210E? it offers 2A, 20A and 100A DC ranges?

[bd139]

Yeah that’s #1 contender at the moment. Or the second hand fluke 325 on eBay at the moment 

[Specmaster]

You can get the Uni-T 210 much cheaper new than the Fluke will go at the end of the auction, I got mine 2018, for £26.46, new and sealed on eBay. Seeing as its not the kind of thing that will be regularly used but is handy when required, I reckon thats about the right price ballpark to be in. There are loads of members here who have the 210E as well, and they say great things about them.

[bd139]

Yeah looking good. Has 2A range as well which is handy. Will be a bit jumpy on that I imagine. Will grab one in morning. Thanks for feedback 

This is car related for ref. Got problems  . Want to check something before I pay someone a lot of money for some bollocks

[mnementh]

Yeah, that seems pretty much right on. They're $50 every day on Amazon just like they were when I first scoped them out. Consider your application; reviews say you have to zero out the DC current mode carefully before every use, and be careful not to move it once zeroed out. Sounds like you may need to turn off the juice you want to measure...?

Probably can zero it out somewhere near to the point of measurement and get somewhat close to accurate measurement; I'd say it depends on exactly how much uncertainty factor is acceptable. 

mnem
*tzzzzt*

[mansaxel]

Especially out in Essex. 

Random question. DC clamp meters good to 40A. Any suggestions? Got something I need to measure that I don’t want to disconnect.

Edit: don’t expect something expensive as this is a one shot measurement

hp428b ? 

Naah, the Uni-T is probably very hard to beat. Do note there are several different ones. There's one, for instance, that does 1mA resolution too, which, compared to the 1mA FSD range of the 428b is "fuzzy", but, the Uni-T is slightly more convenient. And bloody cheap.

[bd139]

LOL any excuse 

Yeah, that seems pretty much right on. They're $50 every day on Amazon just like they were when I first scoped them out. Consider your application; reviews say you have to zero out the DC current mode carefully before every use, and be careful not to move it once zeroed out. Sounds like you may need to turn off the juice you want to measure...?

Probably can zero it out somewhere near to the point of measurement and get somewhat close to accurate measurement; I'd say it depends on exactly how much uncertainty factor is acceptable. 

mnem
*tzzzzt*

Yeah need to measure alternator current. Got battery charge problem in car and trying to isolate if it’s the alternator or the battery because if it’s the battery I can swap it myself. If it’s the alternator, ugh. It may be just self discharge of the battery as well as I haven’t used the car much recently.

Being Hall effect, yep don’t want to move it. Figure I’ll get some use out of it on the bench too and around the house as I occasionally want to do AC measurements too.

[mansaxel]

Yeah, that seems pretty much right on. They're $50 every day on Amazon just like they were when I first scoped them out. Consider your application; reviews say you have to zero out the DC current mode carefully before every use, and be careful not to move it once zeroed out. Sounds like you may need to turn off the juice you want to measure...?

Probably can zero it out somewhere near to the point of measurement and get somewhat close to accurate measurement; I'd say it depends on exactly how much uncertainty factor is acceptable. 

mnem
*tzzzzt*

Reading the manual they state it's OK to move it, but not reorient it. What's interfering is the earths magnetic field, and other more local sources of magnetism. Thus, orientation is the foremost source of magnetic-wise inaccuracy.  The 428b (yeah, I'm harping, it's my favourite instrument, so, there!) manual has similar words, so the Chinese are in good company.

[nixiefreqq]

Yeah that’s #1 contender at the moment. Or the second hand fluke 325 on eBay at the moment 

do i get a vote?

if so......uni-t 210e.

cost less than taking swmbo out to the local diner.....and it gets used all the time.


while we have your attention.  whats the deal with essex?  is it actually below sea level or something?

(our only context for things uk is doc martin, one foot in the grave, mr bean, and men behaving badly.  red dwarf was no help at all)

[mnementh]

Yeah, that seems pretty much right on. They're $50 every day on Amazon just like they were when I first scoped them out. Consider your application; reviews say you have to zero out the DC current mode carefully before every use, and be careful not to move it once zeroed out. Sounds like you may need to turn off the juice you want to measure...?

Probably can zero it out somewhere near to the point of measurement and get somewhat close to accurate measurement; I'd say it depends on exactly how much uncertainty factor is acceptable. 

mnem
*tzzzzt*

Reading the manual they state it's OK to move it, but not reorient it. What's interfering is the earths magnetic field, and other more local sources of magnetism. Thus, orientation is the foremost source of magnetic-wise inaccuracy.  The 428b (yeah, I'm harping, it's my favourite instrument, so, there!) manual has similar words, so the Chinese are in good company.

Yeah, accurately measuring charge current can be a sonuvabeach, especially if the only convenient access is close to the highly magnetized alternator. You want to make sure you keep your hall-effect ammeter far, far away from that! Remember that a weak battery will not draw as hard as a fresh one too. You want to measure where the heavy alternator charge lead comes into the fuse block; remember that most modern vehicles also have a fuse in the alternator charge circuit that you can remove to break the circuit and do it the old-fashioned way. 

   https://www.toolsource.com/alternator-testers-c-24_25/alternatorgenerator-starter-current-indicator-p-58428.html

I have a set of these in the big tool box; one with 600A/300A ranges and one with 120/60A ranges. Actually, remarkably accurate given the simplicity of the movement; you just lay it flat on the offending cable and read the current. Should be able to get one at any auto parts store for $10-20. Again, don't try to measure anywhere near the alternator.

Good hunting!

mnem
 

[factory]

Here it is. And it works, at least on DC volts. Haven't tried any other functions yet. Last calibration date is November 10, 2003. It's on been on for a little while and I'm going to let it cook for a few hours. But notice something? 9.99716V against the AD584 ref of 9.99691V. Not bad. In fact...fucking spectacular and the peanut gallery that keeps telling me that my assumptions about calibration/accuracy are wrong I not so kindly invite them to go piss up a rope. 

After I check it all out going to give it a good cleaning and I'll do a teardown.

med, that looks pretty damn fancy!  i am going in the opposite direction, with an HP 3400A:



definitely not 7.5 digits.  or even 3.5, i guess...   

It is in pretty good shape, though the phenolic board in the power socket was broken.  I was going to replace it with an IEC socket but it didn't quite fit and I didn't want to modify the metalwork.  I finally found a small supply of the original oval sockets (what the hell are they called? I don't remember):



These things are, as you all know, built like a tank:



I've been reluctant to start another refurb as I am still rather bummed about destroying the 184.  But I haven't a choice. I've run out of things to organize and inventory and if I keep cooking like I've been for the last couple of weeks, I am going to gain back the fourteen pounds (one stone, 6.35 kg, 544.44 tola) I managed to lose since the beginning of the year.   

So back to the bench I go!

The oval power connector is a PH-163.

-Pat

Lots of information on PH-163 cords used by HP & other brands in the 1960's linked from post #1.

• Info on PH-163 (oval, grounded) power cords/sockets: Volex Cord.pdf (94 KB), Alpha 543.pdf (95 KB)

Since then I have noticed the PH-163 sockets are made in three different versions; two metal housed versions, one of which has the ground/earth pin connected to the outer metal shell and the other doesn't, third is a plastic moulded version.

David

[Specmaster]

Yeah, that seems pretty much right on. They're $50 every day on Amazon just like they were when I first scoped them out. Consider your application; reviews say you have to zero out the DC current mode carefully before every use, and be careful not to move it once zeroed out. Sounds like you may need to turn off the juice you want to measure...?

Probably can zero it out somewhere near to the point of measurement and get somewhat close to accurate measurement; I'd say it depends on exactly how much uncertainty factor is acceptable. 

mnem
*tzzzzt*

Reading the manual they state it's OK to move it, but not reorient it. What's interfering is the earths magnetic field, and other more local sources of magnetism. Thus, orientation is the foremost source of magnetic-wise inaccuracy.  The 428b (yeah, I'm harping, it's my favourite instrument, so, there!) manual has similar words, so the Chinese are in good company.

Yeah, accurately measuring charge current can be a sonuvabeach, especially if the only convenient access is close to the highly magnetized alternator. You want to make sure you keep your hall-effect ammeter far, far away from that! Remember that a weak battery will not draw as hard as a fresh one too. You want to measure where the heavy alternator charge lead comes into the fuse block; remember that most modern vehicles also have a fuse in the alternator charge circuit that you can remove to break the circuit and do it the old-fashioned way. 

   https://www.toolsource.com/alternator-testers-c-24_25/alternatorgenerator-starter-current-indicator-p-58428.html

I have a set of these in the big tool box; one with 600A/300A ranges and one with 120/60A ranges. Actually, remarkably accurate given the simplicity of the movement; you just lay it flat on the offending cable and read the current. Should be able to get one at any auto parts store for $10-20. Again, don't try to measure anywhere near the alternator.

Good hunting!

mnem
 

While you are quite correct in what you say Mr Dwagon, don't forget that we are talking about a French car and as they are quite well known for spontaneous combustion that might not be true in this case    I still reckon the 210E is the best bet, it will get used on the bench as well I'm sure. Amazon UK has these for £35.90 on Prime next day delivery.

[worsthorse]

because i am a member of the "vulnerable" crew and trying to heed the local stay-at-home order, i decided to give instacart (picking up at the store) a try. on monday, i was pleasantly surprised to be able to order and got a delivery slot for today, at noon.  it is now 4:15 and my order sits unfilled. so i called instacart to see if i should just cancel it. after two hours on hold, the system disconnected me, so i am on my second round (i know, i am insane. whatever.)

i whiled away the hours on hold by baking a couple loaves of bread from the dough i made yesterday and prepped the ingredients for tomorrow's beef stew. not a bad way to spend a quarantine day...



after dinner tonight, down to the bench to work on the HP meter. 

[med6753]

Yeah, that seems pretty much right on. They're $50 every day on Amazon just like they were when I first scoped them out. Consider your application; reviews say you have to zero out the DC current mode carefully before every use, and be careful not to move it once zeroed out. Sounds like you may need to turn off the juice you want to measure...?

Probably can zero it out somewhere near to the point of measurement and get somewhat close to accurate measurement; I'd say it depends on exactly how much uncertainty factor is acceptable. 

mnem
*tzzzzt*

Reading the manual they state it's OK to move it, but not reorient it. What's interfering is the earths magnetic field, and other more local sources of magnetism. Thus, orientation is the foremost source of magnetic-wise inaccuracy.  The 428b (yeah, I'm harping, it's my favourite instrument, so, there!) manual has similar words, so the Chinese are in good company.

Yeah, accurately measuring charge current can be a sonuvabeach, especially if the only convenient access is close to the highly magnetized alternator. You want to make sure you keep your hall-effect ammeter far, far away from that! Remember that a weak battery will not draw as hard as a fresh one too. You want to measure where the heavy alternator charge lead comes into the fuse block; remember that most modern vehicles also have a fuse in the alternator charge circuit that you can remove to break the circuit and do it the old-fashioned way. 

   https://www.toolsource.com/alternator-testers-c-24_25/alternatorgenerator-starter-current-indicator-p-58428.html

I have a set of these in the big tool box; one with 600A/300A ranges and one with 120/60A ranges. Actually, remarkably accurate given the simplicity of the movement; you just lay it flat on the offending cable and read the current. Should be able to get one at any auto parts store for $10-20. Again, don't try to measure anywhere near the alternator.

Good hunting!

mnem
 

While you are quite correct in what you say Mr Dwagon, don't forget that we are talking about a French car and as they are quite well known for spontaneous combustion that might not be true in this case    I still reckon the 210E is the best bet, it will get used on the bench as well I'm sure. Amazon UK has these for £35.90 on Prime next day delivery.

While an ammeter can be very useful here you can get a good indication of alternator condition with a voltmeter. Start the car and measure voltage right across the battery. Should be greater than 13.7V and less than 14.7V. As the alternator charges the battery the voltage will decrease to about 13.2V to 13.8V.  A properly charged battery with load disconnected should measure approx 12.5V to 12.8V. 

 Listen to the starter the first time you crank the vehicle after sitting overnight. If it seems slower than normal yet the voltages above seem OK it's an excellent indication that the battery is weak and needs to be replaced.

[beanflying]

Yeah that’s #1 contender at the moment. Or the second hand fluke 325 on eBay at the moment 

do i get a vote?

if so......uni-t 210e.

cost less than taking swmbo out to the local diner.....and it gets used all the time.


while we have your attention.  whats the deal with essex?  is it actually below sea level or something?

(our only context for things uk is doc martin, one foot in the grave, mr bean, and men behaving badly.  red dwarf was no help at all)

Not to mention no risk to your Lightweight non Fluke Calibrator lifting back

The 210E @bd139 stacks up very well against my 34401A (fairly sucky on current) for DC current and not to bad against my recent good quality shunts.