Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Specmaster]

Toast anyone?

A lovely little PS that was powering a shelf LED lighting setup in my living room. Having had high hopes of a long life - this was not to be we now realize. Upon opening we were greeted by a familiar smell that somewhere in my brain is recognized as the first greeting of an un-working electronic item. Where do they store the smell in there?

The eyes see the nicely-browned or toasted PCB, the color, at least, reminds one of an otherwise nice breakfast of toast, eggs, and bacon. A gently-curved capacitor top is another sight indicating the bad malice which happened over time inside this little habitat of parts (even on another one still hanging on it's roots). And, a well-shorted MOSFET too is part of the confusing path the electrons are greeted with now, or were yesterday. This causing them to choose a way which was not the intended "yellow brick road" the designers had in mind. Not leading them to the Emerald City, but rather to the wicked witches lair - not a happy ending for all involved.

It's OK Dorothy - you are going back to Kansas - the wicked witch is dead.

Looks like you caught that just in time before the magic smoke was released or the toast really started to burn 

[beanflying]

The Benchy design however if you use the known measurements for it and look at the features clinically is however a much better test print as it encompasses Square, Round, Overhangs, Bridges and a bunch of other potential hiccups.

SS Benchy is designed as a "torture test" to provide difficult-to-print negative spaces and surfaces with text, compound curves, & unsupported overhangs. Also to test linearity of holes and ability to print overhangs, bridges, & odd angles all of which which requires the printer to move in both X & Y axes at the same time. It deliberately does not have any square surfaces; the closest it has is the open rectangular box behind the wheelhouse.

It's not really a good test for dimensional accuracy because of its nonlinear form, which does not directly indicate which axis may be at fault if not accurate.

mnem
It also takes a effing long time to print for a test print. 

You should have a read and look at this first. It is dimensionally available to look at it is far more than a torture test. http://www.3dbenchy.com/dimensions/

[SilverSolder]

Toast anyone?

A lovely little PS that was powering a shelf LED lighting setup in my living room. Having had high hopes of a long life - this was not to be we now realize. Upon opening we were greeted by a familiar smell that somewhere in my brain is recognized as the first greeting of an un-working electronic item. Where do they store the smell in there?

The eyes see the nicely-browned or toasted PCB, the color, at least, reminds one of an otherwise nice breakfast of toast, eggs, and bacon. A gently-curved capacitor top is another sight indicating the bad malice which happened over time inside this little habitat of parts (even on another one still hanging on it's roots). And, a well-shorted MOSFET too is part of the confusing path the electrons are greeted with now, or were yesterday. This causing them to choose a way which was not the intended "yellow brick road" the designers had in mind. Not leading them to the Emerald City, but rather to the wicked witches lair - not a happy ending for all involved.

It's OK Dorothy - you are going back to Kansas - the wicked witch is dead.

There's something really attractive about old fashioned light bulbs, that cost less than $1 to buy... 

[bd139]

Dunno about that. The LED ones I've had in here are getting on for 10 years old. Never got more than 9-12 months out of an incandescent.

Also cheaper to run.

[Specmaster]

What make are those then? My experience is a mixed one. Decent well known brand names just haven't stayed the course, dieing often within months or just over the 12-month period and other lessor known ones would appear to be better or on a par but at a far lower price.

[bd139]

Philips.  Not the cheap ones though.

Had some cheap ones in the kitchen and they went pop after 6 months. There are some Ikea ones in the now and they seem to be pretty good. About 2y old now.

[Cerebus]

I'm quite surprised by that. After a few early failures (and not with cheap trash) about 10 years ago I concluded that the LED lamps that were available then weren't ready for General Lighting Service. You having some that are 10 years old is quite a feat based on my experience.

More recent ones are definitely ready for GLS. I stuck an Ikea LED GLS lamp in the box room  and in a living room standard lamp perhaps 3 years back. When those met the test of time I swapped out all the remaining compact fluorescent and incandescent GLS lamps for Ikea LED ones perhaps 18 months ago and so far no failures. Reminds me, I must get the dead bugs out of the bathroom light fitting. Back in a few minutes...

[Cerebus]

Debugging done, and, unusually, not a line of code was hurt not a single logic probe inserted anywhere. 

[bd139]

Ah yes. I did that debugging a couple of weeks ago. Honestly I hadn’t noticed the collection for about 3 years until I decided to have the first bath (rather than shower) in a long time, lay back and saw the graveyard on the ceiling. Ugh. Brighter now! 

[SilverSolder]

Dunno about that. The LED ones I've had in here are getting on for 10 years old. Never got more than 9-12 months out of an incandescent.

Also cheaper to run.

This house if full of incandescent projector type bulbs, many are more than 15 years old...  all run off dimmers at reduced brightness, which makes them last, and last, and last.

I have a couple of 50W CFL lamps in the garage...  they really light the place up - they are about 12 years old, one of them failed recently.

LEDs seem to be a mixed bag for longevity.  Some are reliable, some are not.

[bitseeker]

Indeed. I am liking the Siglent. Had the DS1054Z before and while it was a reasonable scope with more channels, this is much better suited to my work.

Tautech will like your words on the Siglent.   
It is the newer design -compared to it's direct competitor DS1054Z.
On the other hand; younger Rigol models -even with Rigols new ASIC also seem to tend to a laggy and partially buggy UI -Rigol hasn't much improved in that department in the last years while it seems Siglent has.

Yes, I think overall Siglent has well surpassed Rigol. I don't yet own Siglent gear, but from what I've seen, they've done a better job of balancing tech and design/usability whereas Rigol doesn't yet seem to get design & usability.

[mnementh]

Toot-Tooot!

       

Very pleased with Benchy too. More pics & details here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg2977414/#msg2977414

mnem

[med6753]

Toot-Tooot!

       

Very pleased with Benchy too. More pics & details here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg2977414/#msg2977414

mnem

Prepare to fire tubes 1 and 2. 

[bitseeker]

Med is on the prowl!

[xrunner]

Med is on the prowl!

I see now he really has a use for all those boat anchors! 

[Sam Spastic]

Also: Working as a mechanic, then as a engineer, then as a mechanic again... I've been thinking in metric for decades, all except for temp and travel distance. The change with moving to Canada is incremental at best.

Funny. Am I to assume that the Youtube mechanics club, ie. Fenner, Booth, Rucker et al. are, say, on the traditional side of the bell curve, because they constantly speak in inches (and thousands, which of course is one large defeat for the "fractions are better" club..) and you seem to give the impression that it would be normal for someone who's been mechanic, then (as a) engineer, then (as a) mechanic again to live metricly even in Texas?

/M, kept tolerances around the 39 thou level in todays project. (yes, watching youtube machinists has gotten me to think more freely in inches, but I'm as metric as they come..)

Worked with SAE measurement units all my life.  Worked at Firestone and when it changed to Bridgestone/Firestone still did ALL maintenance measurements as SAE.

Went to Mitshubishi and mostly Metric.  But we used inch standard pipe and hose fittings.  Except for some weird ass British hose fittings and these had to be cut from old hose and applied to new hose.  Then a dozen years later we get a prototyping line from Japan that has all Metric pipe and hose fittings. We have to install all guns and respective hoses and dress it so it will run without tearing the cables and hoses to pieces. We should have installed all inch fittings. Instead manufacturing bought us $50K in new Metric fittings! We end up with whatever and jammed threads and LEAKS. But we had a job for another 5 years.

[Sam Spastic]

Used to be an electromagician but now I are a hoser.

[mnementh]

Also: Working as a mechanic, then as a engineer, then as a mechanic again... I've been thinking in metric for decades, all except for temp and travel distance. The change with moving to Canada is incremental at best.

Funny. Am I to assume that the Youtube mechanics club, ie. Fenner, Booth, Rucker et al. are, say, on the traditional side of the bell curve, because they constantly speak in inches (and thousands, which of course is one large defeat for the "fractions are better" club..) and you seem to give the impression that it would be normal for someone who's been mechanic, then (as a) engineer, then (as a) mechanic again to live metricly even in Texas?

/M, kept tolerances around the 39 thou level in todays project. (yes, watching youtube machinists has gotten me to think more freely in inches, but I'm as metric as they come..)

Of course I KNOW both; my grandfather was a master machinist during and after the War. That doesn't mean I'm going to STICK with a bass-ackwards measure based on King 'enry's shoe size. You work with what you use all the time, and it's great that Starret makes this little chart so you know EXACTLY where what Imperial/Decimal/Metric measures are on a number line.

When I was still working as a mechanic decades ago, the only vehicles we dealt with anymore that were SAE were pickup trucks. If you work on passenger vehicles for a living, you need to have a full complement of metric tools, and you will work with metric fasteners far more often than SAE/Imperial. ANYBODY who works on passenger vehicles FOR A LIVING will tell you this. Working as an Engineer, again, far more of what you do is in metric than SAE... unless you're an old fart MACHINIST who still thinks a South Bend Model A is the pinnacle of... something. 

Seriously... the world IS metric, and it's designed in metric because everything comes from Asia. SAE/Imperial is for throwbacks like my grand-dad's F-150; which I love dearly, but you can fix most of what goes wrong with it using a hot-wrench and Vise-Grips.

mnem
And duck tape.

[beanflying]

No time to play but on the outside near as darn it showroom condition and sent with enough bubble wrap to make Mother her suit 

[WastelandTek]

Also: Working as a mechanic, then as a engineer, then as a mechanic again... I've been thinking in metric for decades, all except for temp and travel distance. The change with moving to Canada is incremental at best.

Funny. Am I to assume that the Youtube mechanics club, ie. Fenner, Booth, Rucker et al. are, say, on the traditional side of the bell curve, because they constantly speak in inches (and thousands, which of course is one large defeat for the "fractions are better" club..) and you seem to give the impression that it would be normal for someone who's been mechanic, then (as a) engineer, then (as a) mechanic again to live metricly even in Texas?

/M, kept tolerances around the 39 thou level in todays project. (yes, watching youtube machinists has gotten me to think more freely in inches, but I'm as metric as they come..)

don't forget our very own robrenz, not the most prolific youtuber, but highly respected in that crowd, and a member here

[mnementh]

The Benchy design however if you use the known measurements for it and look at the features clinically is however a much better test print as it encompasses Square, Round, Overhangs, Bridges and a bunch of other potential hiccups.

SS Benchy is designed as a "torture test" to provide difficult-to-print negative spaces and surfaces with text, compound curves, & unsupported overhangs. Also to test linearity of holes and ability to print overhangs, bridges, & odd angles all of which which requires the printer to move in both X & Y axes at the same time. It deliberately does not have any square surfaces; the closest it has is the open rectangular box behind the wheelhouse.

It's not really a good test for dimensional accuracy because of its nonlinear form, which does not directly indicate which axis may be at fault if not accurate.

mnem
It also takes a effing long time to print for a test print. 

You should have a read and look at this first. It is dimensionally available to look at it is far more than a torture test. http://www.3dbenchy.com/dimensions/[/url

I know that page very well; I've referred to it more times than I can count.  SS Benchy is NOT a single cure-all diag tool; it is better for some things, while other models are better for others.

The problem is that it's too complex for a first stage test of MECHANICAL soundness; issues with it can as well be caused by software as hardware, and when you do identify a dimensional problem, it doesn't NECESSARILY relate to a specific MECHANICAL fault. Even if it DOES show a dimensional inaccuracy, the translation from what you're seeing is NOT as clear and obvious as with a cube.

In short... when I want to make sure something is square I reach for a SQUARE not for a calibrated French curve, even though you CAN use one to determine if something is square.

It's NOT like this is an either/or scenario; there's a reason all these calibration/tuning models exist, FFS. That's the GREAT thing about 3D Printing; WTF-Ever it is, you can always print another one. 

mnem

[mnementh]

Debugging done, and, unusually, not a line of code was hurt not a single logic probe inserted anywhere. 

Yes, but how many wings and legs did you inhale? 

mnem
Don't... just don't... look at his beard.

[beanflying]

The Benchy design however if you use the known measurements for it and look at the features clinically is however a much better test print as it encompasses Square, Round, Overhangs, Bridges and a bunch of other potential hiccups.

SS Benchy is designed as a "torture test" to provide difficult-to-print negative spaces and surfaces with text, compound curves, & unsupported overhangs. Also to test linearity of holes and ability to print overhangs, bridges, & odd angles all of which which requires the printer to move in both X & Y axes at the same time. It deliberately does not have any square surfaces; the closest it has is the open rectangular box behind the wheelhouse.

It's not really a good test for dimensional accuracy because of its nonlinear form, which does not directly indicate which axis may be at fault if not accurate.

mnem
It also takes a effing long time to print for a test print. 

You should have a read and look at this first. It is dimensionally available to look at it is far more than a torture test. http://www.3dbenchy.com/dimensions/[/url

I know that page very well; I've referred to it more times than I can count.  SS Benchy is NOT a single cure-all diag tool; it is better for some things, while other models are better for others.

The problem is that it's too complex for a first stage test of MECHANICAL soundness; issues with it can as well be caused by software as hardware, and when you do identify a dimensional problem, it doesn't NECESSARILY relate to a specific MECHANICAL fault. Even if it DOES show a dimensional inaccuracy, the translation from what you're seeing is NOT as clear and obvious as with a cube.

In short... when I want to make sure something is square I reach for a SQUARE not for a calibrated French curve, even though you CAN use one to determine if something is square.

It's NOT like this is an either/or scenario; there's a reason all these calibration/tuning models exist, FFS. That's the GREAT thing about 3D Printing; WTF-Ever it is, you can always print another one. 

mnem

You are still attempting to argue the sky is blue. The Benchy is a real world test overall of a 3D printers setup a cube is apart from checking the steps/mm is correct and is largely pointless beyond that. Moving in X and Y together is what 3D printers do in a lot of their work unless you print Borg Cubes for 'fun'.

Your argument you can not tell X from Y on a benchy is flawed the only thing it doesn't have on it is an X or Y assuming you put them on the correct faces on the cube for a start. The Fish box does the same job as a cube test and doesn't give a rats if it starts 30 layers up or on the base it starts on a flat surface and finishes with a flat surface and is square and measurable.

[Cerebus]

Debugging done, and, unusually, not a line of code was hurt not a single logic probe inserted anywhere. 

Yes, but how many wings and legs did you inhale? 

mnem
Don't... just don't... look at his beard.

None, some of us are smart enough to keep our gobs shut at a time like that and breathe shallow. Wouldn't want to waste 'em; gonna chocolate coat 'em and save 'em for Christmas to go with the chocolate coated ants.

[mnementh]

So beard decorations it is then. Will you leave them up til Christmas, or put them away til Thanksgiving?   

...It's NOT like this is an either/or scenario; there's a reason all these calibration/tuning models exist, FFS. That's the GREAT thing about 3D Printing; WTF-Ever it is, you can always print another one. 

mnem

You are still attempting to argue the sky is blue. The Benchy is a real world test overall of a 3D printers setup a cube is apart from checking the steps/mm is correct and is largely pointless beyond that. Moving in X and Y together is what 3D printers do in a lot of their work unless you print Borg Cubes for 'fun'.

Your argument you can not tell X from Y on a benchy is flawed the only thing it doesn't have on it is an X or Y assuming you put them on the correct faces on the cube for a start. The Fish box does the same job as a cube test and doesn't give a rats if it starts 30 layers up or on the base it starts on a flat surface and finishes with a flat surface and is square and measurable.

I didn’t say CAN’T. I said the cube is BETTER for what I printed it for. You are the one arguing otherwise. I printed it, made the changes I wanted to, then moved onto SS Benchy. Who the eff cares that I prefer to print the cube FIRST...?

I dunno why you even feel a need to argue this; unless you’re feeling the need for an argument and nobody else took the bait. 

mnem
“Oh, you want ‘ARGUMENTS’... This is ‘VERBAL ABUSE’. They’re just down the hall, third door on the right.”