Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Cerebus]

After a few months of TEA deprivation, just a small "I'm still alive" from me. As if anybody had even noticed ... 

After your huge dumpster finds I think we all decided out of pique that you were dead to us anyway. 

[med6753]

Done. This one was easy.




Verified and back on duty.

[Cerebus]

• the CD was a simple digitisation of the 1980 analogue master[1]. It was before the "ADD/DDD/AAD" markings started to be used! Hence mastering is not an issue in this case

A CD mastered from the same master tape as a vinyl disc may not have the same signal encoded on it as was encoded on the Vinyl disc.

Mastering, when referring to cutting a vinyl disc, is not synonymous with the process of getting to the master tape. There's quite a lot of processing that can go on between the ¹/₄" master tape machine's line output and the coils on the disc mastering lathe. Sometimes it is quite brutal.

The most obvious thing is limiting/compression of low frequency components to stop the cutting head obliterating the grove cut on the previous or next rotation.The language used by cutting room engineers if this happens near the end of cutting a disc could make a navy stoker blush. Then there's RIAA preemphasis and there may be other things done to the signal dynamics to get the whole thing to fit the physical parameters that are permissible on vinyl. Fitting a lot of material onto a single side of vinyl sometimes requires reducing the dynamic range of the entire recording just to make physical space.

Going to a cutting room to watch your disc being cut from your precious master tape is a bit like going to watch sausages be made from the pig you hand reared.

[tggzzz]

Such comparisons Vinyl/CD are pointless because of the different mastering techniques. Because of the more technical restrictions of vinyl, the mastering process for vinyl is often done or must be done with more care and attention (see topic of low frequency excursions, for example) and can for this reason sound better. CD mastering can, and often is for cost reasons, done more sloppily. 

True, but I think there are more important factors:

• the CD was a simple digitisation of the 1980 analogue master[1]. It was before the "ADD/DDD/AAD" markings started to be used! Hence mastering is not an issue in this case
• more importantly, when listening to an orchestra (or concert), what is the "best sound". By the conductor? First row audience? Centre, left? etc etc. Fundamentally there can be no single best sound. Hence arguing about which is better is like arguing whether brand X baked beans are better than brand Y baked beans!

[1] https://www.discogs.com/Vivaldi-Sammartini-Telemann-H%C3%A4ndel-Michala-Petri-Academy-Of-St-Martin-in-the-Fields-Iona-Brown-Reco/release/10970311

For amusement bemusement only, today's audiophool nonsense is used speaker cables for auction or BIN £5250 - but if it sells for >£3k5 the seller  will refund the £10 postage fee.

Of note is that "The electrons travel along Valhalla's highly polished conductors at 96% speed of light" (yeah, right!), and that the original wooden box will cost an extra £250.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nordost-Valhalla-Reference-Speaker-Cable-4-m-Bi-Wire-Z-Plugs-Original-Mint/223933564117

Apart from that, the photo looks like it has been photoshopped: look at the colour of the connectors on each end.

[Wolfgang]

Such comparisons Vinyl/CD are pointless because of the different mastering techniques. Because of the more technical restrictions of vinyl, the mastering process for vinyl is often done or must be done with more care and attention (see topic of low frequency excursions, for example) and can for this reason sound better. CD mastering can, and often is for cost reasons, done more sloppily. 

True, but I think there are more important factors:

• the CD was a simple digitisation of the 1980 analogue master[1]. It was before the "ADD/DDD/AAD" markings started to be used! Hence mastering is not an issue in this case
• more importantly, when listening to an orchestra (or concert), what is the "best sound". By the conductor? First row audience? Centre, left? etc etc. Fundamentally there can be no single best sound. Hence arguing about which is better is like arguing whether brand X baked beans are better than brand Y baked beans!

[1] https://www.discogs.com/Vivaldi-Sammartini-Telemann-H%C3%A4ndel-Michala-Petri-Academy-Of-St-Martin-in-the-Fields-Iona-Brown-Reco/release/10970311

For amusement bemusement only, today's audiophool nonsense is used speaker cables for auction or BIN £5250 - but if it sells for >£3k5 the seller  will refund the £10 postage fee.

Of note is that "The electrons travel along Valhalla's highly polished conductors at 96% speed of light" (yeah, right!), and that the original wooden box will cost an extra £250.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nordost-Valhalla-Reference-Speaker-Cable-4-m-Bi-Wire-Z-Plugs-Original-Mint/223933564117

Apart from that, the photo looks like it has been photoshopped: look at the colour of the connectors on each end.

Stupidity is the largest renewable resource to mankind.
Everyday an audiophool idiot wakes up. The only problem is to find him. 

[xrunner]

Stupidity is the largest renewable resource to mankind.

Oh cool - can I use that quote?

[Kosmic]

Have we become as obsessive as the audiophool trying to get his system's total harmonic distortion from an inaudible 0.02% to 0.01% ? Is this our ultimate fate? To be just like them?

"Low thermal EMF binding posts" to gain one more least significant digit confidence out of an 8.5 digit DMM. Are we just as nuts as they are? 

The lines between reality and fantasy are blurred. 

I'm no volt nut, more of a frequency person. But, and this is a very important but, what them voltnuts are doing is measuring things. The Audiophool, OTOH, hails subjective judgement to the degree that he does not want to be disturbed by readily observable facts.

I'm in agreement with med6753 here, even the improvement made by Audiophool's CAN be measured by the right equipment so his analogy stands. There comes a point when seeking absolute perfection is undetectable by people using the equipment that nature provided us with and in that respect I must agree with him.

I see your point but I don't fully agree:
Low thermal EMF binding posts have a measurable effect, you obviously need suited measures to measure and objectively prove their influence on sensitive signals. Using a 3 1/2 digit multimeter and denying the effect of low thermal EMF materials is no point to compare volt nuts with Audiphools in my opinion.

On the other hand: I want to see the the equipment needed to prove by objective measurement that foam blocks for getting the speaker cables some inches above the floor shall result in a lighter, not so earthy sound (been there, heard that from an Audiophool).   

For med it doesn't make any difference, if he is using low-thermal EMF binding posts or not, when he is measuring the B+ voltage with 3 1/2, 4 1/2 or 5 1/2 digits

The Seebeck effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_effect) is unfortunately really real and is the reason why we have cheap temperature probe (thermocouple). Most of the time though, as temperature equilibrate the effect mostly goes away after couple minutes. But you can easily see multiple uV when coupling nickel plated binding post to a piece of copper. Like others mentioned it's starting to be a problem at 6.5 digits.

I should also had mentioned that my current goal is to replace the awful Fischer connectors on all my 7.5 and 8.5 digits Solartron multimeters.

[Zucca]

World War Z is here in Munich, my entire company is going crazy. They told us to stay home as much as we can.
We are about 25K eng working in that development area. Holy balls. 

[tggzzz]

I should also had mentioned that my current goal is to replace the awful Fischer connectors on all my 7.5 and 8.5 digits Solartron multimeters.

And sell them at a profit?

I wouldn't recommend treating purchasers like you would treat audiophools, though. People interested in those connectors are likely to have fewer bats in their belfry

[BU508A]

The Seebeck effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_effect) is unfortunately really real and is the reason why we have cheap temperature probe (thermocouple). Most of the time though, as temperature equilibrate the effect mostly goes away after couple minutes. But you can easily see multiple uV when coupling nickel plated binding post to a piece of copper. Like others mentioned it's starting to be a problem at 6.5 digits.

I should also had mentioned that my current goal is to replace the awful Fischer connectors on all my 7.5 and 8.5 digits Solartron multimeters.

Yes, the Seebeck effect is real, no question. But if you are measuring voltages like med (eg. B+ with hundreds of volts) the Seebeck effect doesn't really matter. It does matter when you want to determine the stability and/or noise of a voltage reference. Or when you are in the business of energy harvesting, for example. Neither I can see this with med, just some peanuts in his gear (which is another story) :-)

[med6753]

The Seebeck effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_effect) is unfortunately really real and is the reason why we have cheap temperature probe (thermocouple). Most of the time though, as temperature equilibrate the effect mostly goes away after couple minutes. But you can easily see multiple uV when coupling nickel plated binding post to a piece of copper. Like others mentioned it's starting to be a problem at 6.5 digits.

I should also had mentioned that my current goal is to replace the awful Fischer connectors on all my 7.5 and 8.5 digits Solartron multimeters.

Yes, the Seebeck effect is real, no question. But if you are measuring voltages like med (eg. B+ with hundreds of volts) the Seebeck effect doesn't really matter. It does matter when you want to determine the stability and/or noise of a voltage reference. Or when you are in the business of energy harvesting, for example. Neither I can see this with med, just some peanuts in his gear (which is another story) :-)

Well yes, as of late my voltage measurements have been ranging upwards of 500VDC and the only thermodynamic effect I care about is that I don't fry myself.    But I do dabble with voltage references under 10V and have yet to discover what I perceive to be some "Seebeck effects" but maybe what I'm figuring is normal drift IS in fact what's happening. Maybe what I need to do is raise my cables 10.27658932 cm above the bench to negate it from happening. 

[BU508A]

World War Z is here in Munich, my entire company is going crazy. They told us to stay home as much as we can.
We are about 25K eng working in that development area. Holy balls. 

[Specmaster]

Have we become as obsessive as the audiophool trying to get his system's total harmonic distortion from an inaudible 0.02% to 0.01% ? Is this our ultimate fate? To be just like them?

"Low thermal EMF binding posts" to gain one more least significant digit confidence out of an 8.5 digit DMM. Are we just as nuts as they are? 

The lines between reality and fantasy are blurred. 

I'm no volt nut, more of a frequency person. But, and this is a very important but, what them voltnuts are doing is measuring things. The Audiophool, OTOH, hails subjective judgement to the degree that he does not want to be disturbed by readily observable facts.

I'm in agreement with med6753 here, even the improvement made by Audiophool's CAN be measured by the right equipment so his analogy stands. There comes a point when seeking absolute perfection is undetectable by people using the equipment that nature provided us with and in that respect I must agree with him.

I see your point but I don't fully agree:
Low thermal EMF binding posts have a measurable effect, you obviously need suited measures to measure and objectively prove their influence on sensitive signals. Using a 3 1/2 digit multimeter and denying the effect of low thermal EMF materials is no point to compare volt nuts with Audiphools in my opinion.

On the other hand: I want to see the the equipment needed to prove by objective measurement that foam blocks for getting the speaker cables some inches above the floor shall result in a lighter, not so earthy sound (been there, heard that from an Audiophool).   

3.5 digit meters, while I still have some, they are only used in cases where I need to monitor supply rails over a long time frame, mostly my meters now consist of 6.5 and 5.5 digits so are now able to measure smaller variations in measurements 

[Wolfgang]

Stupidity is the largest renewable resource to mankind.

Oh cool - can I use that quote?

Yes, with pleasure. 

[Specmaster]

So shopping. Hardware shop plenty of Masks both disposable and proper cartridge ones  No one seen is the streets wearing masks so clearly no panic in town.

(Attachment Link)

  sheeple

(Attachment Link)

But there certainly seems to a panic hike in prices of disposable masks by the look of things, surely?

[AVGresponding]

Stupidity is the largest renewable resource to mankind.

Oh cool - can I use that quote?

Yes, with pleasure. 

Hmm, reminds me of an Einstein quote, "There are two things that are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe".


Sideways update on the HP1120A probe I bought.
The next day I picked up another parcel from the Post Office, and was surprised to see the same sellers return details on it.
"Aha!" methinks, "he's found some bits that go with it and sent them too!"
No such luck unfortunately     it was some sort of remote speaker/flasher thingy for a doorbell or fixed line phone. Definitely not ordered by yours truly.
I messaged the seller thinking he's accidentally printed a second address label with my details, and this proved to be the case.
He partially refunded me to the tune of eight smackers, and asked me to forward it first class signed for, £6.50.
Just bunged it in the post now, £1.50 discount on the probe, good deed done for the day!   

[Specmaster]

Done. This one was easy.




Verified and back on duty.

But what about the Tants?

[AVGresponding]

One for each and every IC by the looks of it, you're evil, Specmaster   

[Kosmic]

I should also had mentioned that my current goal is to replace the awful Fischer connectors on all my 7.5 and 8.5 digits Solartron multimeters.

And sell them at a profit?

I wouldn't recommend treating purchasers like you would treat audiophools, though. People interested in those connectors are likely to have fewer bats in their belfry

No for personal use only 

[Cerebus]

No for personal use only 

Like other drugs that get circulated amongst friends. 

[Kosmic]

No for personal use only 

Like other drugs that get circulated amongst friends. 

Yep and I use them mostly alone hidden in my basement. Ho god, I'm so ashame, I think i'm an addict 

[Kosmic]

World War Z is here in Munich, my entire company is going crazy. They told us to stay home as much as we can.
We are about 25K eng working in that development area. Holy balls. 

One of my friend is working for Morgan Stanley, they created a system where the workforce is separated in 2 teams. When 1 teams is in the office the other is working from home.

Would probably work fine if that was a closed system  unfortunately it's not. Some of them will probably get infected during the weekend or while ordering a pizza at home.

[med6753]

But what about the Tants?

Well first....I never seem to have issues with the tants in Fluke gear. I think Fluke was more conservative than Tek when it came rating them. And second, I have a service manual for the 7260A but no schematics. So I have no idea what values those tants are.   

[bd139]

Yet. First 8000A I got they were pretty nasty. One of them had pulled a rail down so hard the pass transistor on the power supply had actually overheated and had a beta of about 3 

[Specmaster]

One for each and every IC by the looks of it, you're evil, Specmaster   

Guilty as charged