Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[med6753]

That was never in doubt, but its got to drift a massive amount to make any differance when all you and I do is to use our meters to fix broken things with, thats my point. 

But I still need to know. Besides....this is fun scientific discovery. 

Edit...now at 40C! 

[BU508A]

How do you people with these OCD's ever manage to get any sleep   

We all have our little Monks, don't we?     

[mnementh]

NEVER going back to Tejas. There is NOTHING there for us now.

mnem
There's just no THERE there.

Sandy Cheeks is missing you. 

Edit:   

That's okay; we had our hookup at DragonCon. 

(I'm totally snurching your Calvin, tho.)

mnem
"Farewell, my bushy-tailed little liebchen..." *smooch*
*sigh* "We'll always have... Alberta."

[Specmaster]

UP is on, the rest of you are dumb.     Still asleep and the coffee ain't working. 

   My grandmothers house had these light switches... So which way is on then?    McBryce.

The knob itself is an arrow pointing UP for ON, DUH. 

Yeah I saw that when googling. Pfft in went a $15 meanwell 

Yeah, just realize that the company we call Meanwell now has NOTHING to do with the highly-reputed laboratory-grade manufacturer of old. They are a China-direct manufacturer which bought out the company they used to manufacture for, much like happened to what we now call TIMEX in the '90s.  They're among the better of the China-direct labels, but still primarily just another cheap LED lighting SMPS manufacturer. 

mnem

Yah, we're all stirrers I know, but its fun

[med6753]

If you want, send me your references and I will check them against my calibrated DMM7510 and 10v LTZ1000 standard then send them back.  Send a PM if your interested.

Thanks for the offer. I just might do that. Then I will know...who is telling the truth. The Fluke or the Siglent! 

[BU508A]

"Farewell, my bushy-tailed little liebchen..." *smooch*
*sigh* "We'll always have... Alberta."

Do you know The Comedian Harmonists? I'm tending to believe that this song was dedicated to you.

[bd139]

Yeah, just realize that the company we call Meanwell now has NOTHING to do with the highly-reputed laboratory-grade manufacturer of old. They are a China-direct manufacturer which bought out the company they used to manufacture for, much like happened to what we now call TIMEX in the '90s.  They're among the better of the China-direct labels, but still primarily just another cheap LED lighting SMPS manufacturer. 

No it's the same company that did the IBM PC and Apple power supplies in the 1980s. Same staff. Same offices. The design is done in Taipei, manufactured in China and sent to Taiwan owned distribution outfits all over the world.  But as always, the "better quality" units such as TDK Lambda medical grade supplies are made in the same factories on the same lines as the Mean Well units in Suzhou/Xiamen  . Only the ass end units are made in other places now.

Actually the ass end units are not too terrible. I've ordered a few. I managed to get one delivered from Aliexpress to me for £1.50 and it was pretty well designed.

[med6753]

That's enough. 42C. I got my answer. I don't want to damage the battery in the reference.


Final result. From room ambient of 22C there was an observed increase of +0.0004V. Now I'm going to see how long it takes to lose it and return to an observed +9.9966V

[mnementh]

@mnem, I understand your POV, but my POV is that unless you are lighting it up internally when it isn't switched on to make it a focal point, then with chassis being black it is going to be dark inside and very little will actually visible. And when it is on switched on you are then more interested in its actual output be it on the screen or in the VR headset, surely 

As to cars, again my view is that unless the car is going to be a showcase, in a exhibition or something, then what surely matters the most is the engine bay as near original condition as possible, is that the bodywork and interior is where I would put as attention to detail in as I could so that in can be enjoyed by owner/driver and the public viewers when the car is in normal usage, non't normal drive around or leave the car parked with the bonnet  hood up, but then thats me, I'd rather be enjoying it, than letting others enjoy it.

Ducking that soggy old wellington boot thats being lobbed in my direction , I know, I'm a stinker aint I

Naaahh... yer just agitatin', same as me. 

In the case of a tricked-out gaming rig, the PC usually IS just that... ON DISPLAY. Most folks who enjoy PC modding do NOT shove it under a desk; they place it prominently on top of a large flat-top desk-table right next to a huge 144-220Hz display. Mine is under the table and at the end deliberately to show off the contents of the picture window, but raised to reduce floor-borne dust ingress Most modern gamer MBs have an "always on" lighting option in the firmware for the couple watts of LED lighting inside the case... this is A THING. Even back in the day we'd have a strip or two that was connected to the 5V Stby.

In my case, as it is almost always either on or in sleep mode, that is a moot point. My Aorus has LED lighting built into the MB that changes color with the activity state.

As for showing off the cars... there are lots of places BESIDES a car show. I grew up in multiple cities & small towns where croozin' was a thing... weekend meetups with fellow enthusiasts in the parking lot of the local watering hole or burger joint weren't just the stuff of legend, they were part of my youth. 

mnem
yo.

[bd139]

Also it feels better using something that you know isn't a piece of shit inside even if no one ever sees it.

[mnementh]

I call that XOR switching (as it's essentially an XOR gate) and we have that too for the stair/hallway lighting. No choice there as to which way is ON. McBryce.

Yes, but you do have a choice in whether BOTH UP is on or off; in North America at least, that convention is BOTH UP=ON (Or ALL UP as the case may be).

mnem
Also, overhand on TP & PT is correct. Underhand is just wrong. Sideways is RIGHT OUT. 

But what is the point of that, on my stairs for instance and in many other incidents it is impossible to see both switches at the same time and in corridors with multiple switches, even harder still.   How do you people with these OCD's ever manage to get any sleep       

Hey, that one was taught to me by old man Arcangeli, the electrician I did a bit of apprenticeship under. He def knew his shit as far as household wiring, tho was a bit behind the times as far as industrial stuff. 

This particular case it's easy tho... you wire them all up as needed, then just before you close them up, you check all switches to make sure they're up and do your power-on testing. If the light's on yay, if not reverse any two non-common wires and it will be right. Test all switches for correct function and then button them all up. Adds literally 60 seconds at most to the job; but worth it to do the job RIGHT. 

mnem
As for the TP/PT overhand thing... I spent some time trying it both ways, and after careful consideration found that there simply are many more cases where underhand is just plain inconvenient compared to overhand.

[Specmaster]

If you want, send me your references and I will check them against my calibrated DMM7510 and 10v LTZ1000 standard then send them back.  Send a PM if your interested.

Thanks for the offer. I just might do that. Then I will know...who is telling the truth. The Fluke or the Siglent! 

Personally, I doubt either of them will agree with Kj7e's meters, each one has to have its own individual tolerances from the components it is built up from and it is highly unlikely that the parts used in each came from the same production batch etc.   

[mnementh]

Yeah, just realize that the company we call Meanwell now has NOTHING to do with the highly-reputed laboratory-grade manufacturer of old. They are a China-direct manufacturer which bought out the company they used to manufacture for, much like happened to what we now call TIMEX in the '90s.  They're among the better of the China-direct labels, but still primarily just another cheap LED lighting SMPS manufacturer. 

No it's the same company that did the IBM PC and Apple power supplies in the 1980s. Same staff. Same offices. The design is done in Taipei, manufactured in China and sent to Taiwan owned distribution outfits all over the world.  But as always, the "better quality" units such as TDK Lambda medical grade supplies are made in the same factories on the same lines as the Mean Well units in Suzhou/Xiamen  . Only the ass end units are made in other places now.

Actually the ass end units are not too terrible. I've ordered a few. I managed to get one delivered from Aliexpress to me for £1.50 and it was pretty well designed.

I'll take your word for it... aside from a few prehistoric linears that were very similar in design ethic to Lambda, every one I've had in my hands has been a "slightly better than average" cheap-ass POS for LED lighting. Could be the source (eBay/AliEx) as much as the brand, tho; totes possible I only ever got the ass-end units, tho a couple were 1KW-plus which I used for LiPo charging.

mnem
*juicy*

[tggzzz]

I guess I'm going to have to improve my German skills as ebay.co.uk will be largely useless to me in just a few days.

My understanding is the problems may can be expected to arise at the end of the year, not month.

My problem is that as soon as the UK leaves the EU, anything posted to me here in Sweden will disappear into Postnord's ransom system. If the item's value is <= 1700 SEK, the handling charges are 75 SEK plus VAT at 25%. For anything > 1700 SEK, handling charges are 125 SEK + 25% VAT + import duty. The entire import process adds a delay of 3 - 4 weeks in delivery. There is also no lower limit, so if I buy (for example) two end caps for the knobs on my PL320 for £5, they would still be subject to 25% VAT and the 75 SEK handling charge. The expression "daylight robbery" comes to mind.

This will make small value items uneconomical to order from the UK, and I'm sure will seriously hurt many UK based eBay sellers. Who wants customs problems when the same items may be available in the EU?

I've just put that to my fragrant MP, Dr Liam Fox, Secretary of State for International Trade. He is responsible for helping to secure trade deals with other countries following Brexit.

I am holding my breath, but not because I am waiting for a useful response.

The entirely unsurprising response-but-not-answer:

Thank you for your email.  As we leave the EU, we are entering the implementation period which lasts until the end of December 2020.  There will be no change to rules and regulations during that time.  Both sides will seek to reach a free trade agreement that producers a zero tariff, fee and quota arrangement alongside customs and regulations which will minimize any future trading friction.
Yours sincerely
LIAM FOX
Parliamentary Office of the Rt Hon Dr Liam Fox MP

[bd139]

Should be signed "Right dishonourable cunt": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liam_Fox#Positions

[tggzzz]

You're absolutely right. The state of the lamp is determined by whether I can see or not, not by the position of the switch.

If I can't see, the switch needs moving to the other position than the one it currently has.

I don't think twice about the Swedish orientation of the switch, despite growing up in a country where it's the opposite of what it is here.

There may be personal bias/expectation evident. To some extent that is true, and certainly will be after a period with the "opposite" direction.

The question becomes acute when the switch is moved and the light's state doesn't change.

Analogy: driving on the left/right. I've seen people make "surprising" mistakes on empty roads. That doesn't matter, unless the road is narrow and you are surprised by a car coming in the other direction. Then it is questionable which instinct will dominate.

[Mr. Scram]

If you want, send me your references and I will check them against my calibrated DMM7510 and 10v LTZ1000 standard then send them back.  Send a PM if your interested.

Send me your gear and I'll check the calibration for you. No backsies though.

[AVGresponding]

Heh heh I have my eye on a nice little 24V toroidal tranny in the old door hold system at the building we're refurbing. Looks to be 100-150VA or thereabouts. It is most definitely coming home with me rather than going in a skip at the end of the job. The run/charger tranny out of the old emergency lighting system is a different matter; I expect someone will want to weigh that one in as it's somewhere around 1.5-2kVA. Since I don't really need a transformer with around 48V @ 40A output, I'll not argue too strongly   

EVERYBODY needs JUST such a transformer!!! *coughSPOTWELDERcough*

mnem
 

Hmm, something to consider I guess.

I still need to figure out how to cobble together a AC current source. No good ideas yet, at least with the equipment I have at hand. So that function and the decibel conversion circuit will be checked tomorrow. After that's done, I will start on one of the three units that definitely isn't working.

Audio power amp maybe?

[Specmaster]

Should be signed "Right dishonourable cunt": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liam_Fox#Positions

Yeah, he's got a lot to answer for thats sure, upper class twit.

[Teti]

Very true I guess the same applies to the test equipment.

[tggzzz]

Should be signed "Right dishonourable cunt": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liam_Fox#Positions

Yeah, he's got a lot to answer for thats sure, upper class twit.

Unfortunately for that position... "Fox was born and raised in a Catholic family of Irish heritage in East Kilbride, Scotland, and brought up in a council house that his parents later bought. His great-uncle, John Fox, was Labour Provost of Motherwell, and most of his family were Labour supporters."

... none of which indicates what we can and should do in the future.

[Cubdriver]

Very true I guess the same applies to the test equipment.
(Attachment Link)

It does indeed.  Old test gear is bulky and heavy - storage is certainly an issue!

-Pat

[worsthorse]

Also it feels better using something that you know isn't a piece of shit inside even if no one ever sees it.

doing the right thing when no one is watching is the guideline that comes to mind here.

[grizewald]

There may be personal bias/expectation evident. To some extent that is true, and certainly will be after a period with the "opposite" direction.

The question becomes acute when the switch is moved and the light's state doesn't change.

Analogy: driving on the left/right. I've seen people make "surprising" mistakes on empty roads. That doesn't matter, unless the road is narrow and you are surprised by a car coming in the other direction. Then it is questionable which instinct will dominate.

The light switch is a binary thing. Either the light is on or it isn't. If light is needed, I don't look at the switch, I merely change its state to the opposite of its current state. If the light doesn't come on, my reasoning ability informs me that there is a fault, generally with the light source.

I quite often switch between driving on the right here in Sweden and on the left in the UK. As long as the car's steering wheel is on the correct side, it really doesn't phase me. When I had my Swedish car in the UK for a couple of weeks a while back, I did have to mentally remind myself that I was in the UK a couple of times, but that was the full extent of the problem. I've never found myself making a dangerous change of course based on any instinctive reaction though, regardless of which country I'm in.

[grizewald]

I guess I'm going to have to improve my German skills as ebay.co.uk will be largely useless to me in just a few days.

My understanding is the problems may can be expected to arise at the end of the year, not month.

My problem is that as soon as the UK leaves the EU, anything posted to me here in Sweden will disappear into Postnord's ransom system. If the item's value is <= 1700 SEK, the handling charges are 75 SEK plus VAT at 25%. For anything > 1700 SEK, handling charges are 125 SEK + 25% VAT + import duty. The entire import process adds a delay of 3 - 4 weeks in delivery. There is also no lower limit, so if I buy (for example) two end caps for the knobs on my PL320 for £5, they would still be subject to 25% VAT and the 75 SEK handling charge. The expression "daylight robbery" comes to mind.

This will make small value items uneconomical to order from the UK, and I'm sure will seriously hurt many UK based eBay sellers. Who wants customs problems when the same items may be available in the EU?

I've just put that to my fragrant MP, Dr Liam Fox, Secretary of State for International Trade. He is responsible for helping to secure trade deals with other countries following Brexit.

I am holding my breath, but not because I am waiting for a useful response.

The entirely unsurprising response-but-not-answer:

Thank you for your email.  As we leave the EU, we are entering the implementation period which lasts until the end of December 2020.  There will be no change to rules and regulations during that time.  Both sides will seek to reach a free trade agreement that producers a zero tariff, fee and quota arrangement alongside customs and regulations which will minimize any future trading friction.
Yours sincerely
LIAM FOX
Parliamentary Office of the Rt Hon Dr Liam Fox MP

Did you cut and paste the reply? If so, it doesn't really reflect well on your MP, seeing as they can't even check their reply for correct grammar! "...agreement that producers a zero tariff..."   His use of the word 'customs' is also very lax language in what is very much a formal communication. It says a lot when politicians write like poorly educated teenagers but still insist on using "Rt Hon Dr" in front of their name in some vain attempt to sound like they have the slightest idea what they are doing.

I really wouldn't put it past the Swedish government to instruct the customs authorities to say "There is currently no agreement in place between the UK and the EU and as the UK is no longer an EU country, you will either pay the Swedish VAT and handling charges or we will destroy your goods / send them back to the UK."

When the Scopex which I won on eBay arrives in Sweden, the UK will have left the EU, so I guess I won't have to wait too long to see if my prediction turns out to be correct.