Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mnementh]

Here's a potential agenda. Some of these, such as 4, 5, and 6, could be regular segments. A suggestion was to keep it to one hour. I don't know how long each of these would last. So, it may be good to have some extra topics on hand. Then again, there's always the "TEAngent of the Day".

TEA Time — Episode 1
1. Intro
2. Retrospective: Best/worst of 2019 (auction, acquisition, repair, explosion, vendor, shipper, forum post/thread, etc.)
3. Most/least excited about TE in 2020 (announced, released, in search of, etc.)
4. Recent acquisitions & scores (gear, tools, snipes, gifts)
5. Jammy Git award: Best recent score (from #4 or seen on the forum)
6. GAS station: Deals you just can't resist (this is TEA, after all)
7. Suggestions on TEA Time (how was episode 1, when is episode 2)

If we survive this, we might dare to attempt episode 2.

Can't join, as I suck when speaking English.     Suggesting topic on  ..  "Bargaining tips & tricks when buying TEA stuffs" ... 

No excuse. I may sometimes seem reasonably cogent with the 104-key buffer between myself and the conversation... but IRL I go totally "deer in the headlights" in any round-table discussion. I'm still going to be there with mics on.

My grand-dad used to say "Hire the handicapped; it's fun to watch 'em work." Same principle applies here... it'll be good radio. 

Yep. Bye bye Ikea shite     Plan so far is deeper work surface full width. Small shelf at rear for radio / scope etc then two deeper shelves above to support usual test gear gubbins and storage crates. Drawers down left side for tool storage. Whole thing is going to be drafted in freecad. Going to get the thing cut to order and then assemble.

Wow, fancy. My benches were drafted by freeinmyhead, cut by guesswho, and assembled by yourstruly. 

   

Yeah, my office space (shared with my wife) is decorated in a style we call "Early Turn of the Millenium Broke-ass Eclectic" I have this "semi-restored" typesetter's desk I bought stole for approx US$60 (1/2 price Black Friday Sale) while thrifting which I'm using as my main desk/bench right now. It's a nice 32" deep x 48" wide. Everything else is in Ikea & Sterilite drawers from the thrift. Okay; everything is right now scattered from hell to breakfast due to kids off schooling for the holidaze and me getting several new drawer units into which everything needs sorting...

My wife got the 2 China-direct clone Ikea tables with corner sectional on the other side of the office; these were approx $US70 each off Amazon in the 55" x 24" variant (because they were on sale); they're available in 47" & 63" widths as well. These desks are available from dozens of suppliers on Amazon, and are actually pretty amazingly sturdy, as they're constructed of welded 1"x2" steel tube with 2" x 2" steel tube legs that bolt on through the tube frame.  The ubiquitous Sterilite & Ikea 3-drawer storage units roll right underneath.  I'm using a 3rd one for my gaming/VR PC desk in the LR.

TL/DR version: Given the price and minimal assache involved in assembly, these tables are a effing BARGAIN for quick, sturdy workspace... unless you happen to have a guv'mint auction nearby to buy steal some proper workstation sectionals from, you'll be hard-pressed to find a better deal.

mnem

[mnementh]

TEA Christmas lunch failure:

   No humans were harmed, but chestnut trees were involved in the meal, and a duck and pig were committed to the meal.

You don't use a K-Type sensor connected to a 7,5 digit Multimeter to measure the oven temp?? And you consider yourself a TEA?

McBryce.

I wasn't cooking in my kitchen, so my 7.5 and 8.5 digit 19" DVMs weren't available - and there was zero worktop space available anyway. The available Fluke 21 wouldn't have sufficient resolution.

what the hell is that?  (looks like something from the first "alien" flick) 

Grandma used to call that "piggies in a poke"; a huge bundle of sausage stuffed inside a large fowl (turkey/duck/goose) and roasted. She usually used sweet Italian sausage for hers; the juices from the sausage flavor the drippings, which are then periodically spooned/brushed over the top of it all as it cooks.

mnem

[McBryce]

Was your Grandmother from Ireland/Scotland? Pig in a poke is how we describe buying something without having seen it beforehand. The "poke" comes from the old celtic word for sack.

McBryce.

[tggzzz]

Grandma used to call that "piggies in a poke"; a huge bundle of sausage stuffed inside a large fowl (turkey/duck/goose) and roasted. She usually used sweet Italian sausage for hers; the juices from the sausage flavor the drippings, which are then periodically spooned/brushed over the top of it all as it cooks.

Close. It is chipolatas (small thin sausages) with nutmeg and pepper covering the exit of a 2kg (small) Gressingham duck.

Most of the chipolatas were buried in the crushed chestnut stuffing. The fat from the chipolatas "moistens" the crushed chestnuts. I had a few chipolatas left over, so used them as a door to see what would happen. They were edible, but the ones inside were better. No surprises there.

The nearest we get to "piggies in a poke" is "pigs in blankets", cocktail sausages wrapped in a piece of streaky bacon. (For the US audience, "streaky bacon" == "bacon"). There are vegan pigs in a blanket, which are as pointless and unappetising as those other US inventions, "fat free sour cream" and "egg free omlettes".

[bd139]

Does this solve the whole problem of duck either being almost universally overcooked or undercooked? Fancying Chinese with all this duck talk now 

Edit: never seen vegan pigs in blankets. Sound bloody horrible. I'm not opposed to veganism as such but some of the creations in the name of replicating meat are just horiffic.

Edit 2: just spent my new bench budget on walking gear  . Figure it's probably better to spend it on moving stuff than sitting on my fat arse stuff 

[med6753]

More.....


The covers cleaned up enough to be acceptable as is. Just a few minor dings and scratches.
So the purists can put their pitchforks away. No paint.   



The CA plug-in after cleaning. It has the SO UHF connectors. The 535A has BNC. 1963 was the year Tek converted from UHF to BNC. So the mainframe is newer than the plug-in. I had some PL-259 to BNC female adapters but I can't find them. So I ordered some.



Inside the CA plug-in. It is much cleaner than the mainframe. So much so that I'm going to leave it alone other than deoxit the switches/pots. I may change out those 2 large tubular caps which are the DC blocking caps for the AC input. But they don't appear to be paper or wax.




Tomorrow I start tackling the clean up of the mainframe.

[bitseeker]

TEA Christmas lunch failure:



No humans were harmed, but chestnut trees were involved in the meal, and a duck and pig were committed to the meal.

You don't use a K-Type sensor connected to a 7,5 digit Multimeter to measure the oven temp?? And you consider yourself a TEA?

McBryce.

Now, that was a good one.

[bitseeker]

Grandma used to call that "piggies in a poke"; a huge bundle of sausage stuffed inside a large fowl (turkey/duck/goose) and roasted. She usually used sweet Italian sausage for hers; the juices from the sausage flavor the drippings, which are then periodically spooned/brushed over the top of it all as it cooks.

Close. It is chipolatas (small thin sausages) with nutmeg and pepper covering the exit of a 2kg (small) Gressingham duck.

Most of the chipolatas were buried in the crushed chestnut stuffing. The fat from the chipolatas "moistens" the crushed chestnuts. I had a few chipolatas left over, so used them as a door to see what would happen. They were edible, but the ones inside were better. No surprises there.

The nearest we get to "piggies in a poke" is "pigs in blankets", cocktail sausages wrapped in a piece of streaky bacon. (For the US audience, "streaky bacon" == "bacon"). There are vegan pigs in a blanket, which are as pointless and unappetising as those other US inventions, "fat free sour cream" and "egg free omlettes".

US pigs in blankets are breakfast sausages wrapped in pancakes.

Whatever it is, it's making me very hungry now.

[tggzzz]

Does this solve the whole problem of duck either being almost universally overcooked or undercooked? Fancying Chinese with all this duck talk now 

No, nothing can solve that problem: fools are so damn ingenious.

Edit: never seen vegan pigs in blankets. Sound bloody horrible. I'm not opposed to veganism as such but some of the creations in the name of replicating meat are just horiffic.

Agreed. They were as good as most Asda ready meals: eat them if starving, otherwise wonder whether you want to finish eating them. (N.B. ASDA does have some good stuff, but you have to be selective!)

I oppose vegans that think it is a safe diet. The two crunch points are B12 (only obtainable from meat/fish/dairy/shit; the latter is the source for the 3rd world poor), and calcium. Both deficiencies take decades to manifest themselves, thus allowing plenty of time for fools to live in their paradise while they irreparably damage themselves and/or their kids.

Getting B12 and Ca from supplements is fine, of course, but that goes against the "natural food" concepts that often permeate vegan "thinking".

I put "thinking" in quotes because when vegans are asked how they get B12 and Ca they mention that X contains a lot of it. When asked how much X they would need to eat to get the RDA, they haven't thought of that. Hint: do you think eating 3kg of broccoli or 2 teaspoons of marmite every day is realistic?

Edit 2: just spent my new bench budget on walking gear  . Figure it's probably better to spend it on moving stuff than sitting on my fat arse stuff 

Is that your equivalent of buying membership of the local gym or sports club 

[Saskia]

@bd139 regarding office furniture and nicotene, when I try to revive an old pinball machine and it is completely crusted in nicotene, I take out Red Devil, spray it on and wipe it off immediately. It takes any nicotene right off. You should not leave it on any surface for too long though, it started to dissolve the PE container I keep it in.

But for getting dirt and nicotene off a surface: I don't know any better solvent. Wear gloves though.

@SeanB sorry I have not made it into the vaults yet. I will let you know as soon as I have recovered my UPS.

[capt bullshot]

Done fixing these two guys:

Both of them were victims of the capacitor plague, still some self test failures left after replacing all the SMT electrolytic caps.

Left hand one had a stable Acquisition board fail (delayed trigger doesn't work), otherwise OK. Fixed by removing and re-soldering the trigger select / comparator chip 

Right hand one had some intermittent Acq. failure (missing samples in ETS mode, Ramp doesn't end self test message). Fixed by replacing a SMT transistor (which most probably wasn't bad at all), and one more thoroughly board cleaning run.

Anyway, now they're working again, what do one want to do with TDS420's? Anyone to know if one can hack them to 460's?

[Specmaster]

Getting B12 and Ca from supplements is fine, of course, but that goes against the "natural food" concepts that often permeate vegan "thinking".

I put "thinking" in quotes because when vegans are asked how they get B12 and Ca they mention that X contains a lot of it. When asked how much X they would need to eat to get the RDA, they haven't thought of that. Hint: do you think eating 3kg of broccoli or 2 teaspoons of marmite every day is realistic?

My Mum was a vegetarian and she had an issue with salt so she got all of her B12 and Ca from supplements. It seemed to me at least, that it made no difference if you were vege or  vegan, they always had an issue with something or other. 

[madao]

Done fixing these two guys:

Both of them were victims of the capacitor plague, still some self test failures left after replacing all the SMT electrolytic caps.

Left hand one had a stable Acquisition board fail (delayed trigger doesn't work), otherwise OK. Fixed by removing and re-soldering the trigger select / comparator chip 

Right hand one had some intermittent Acq. failure (missing samples in ETS mode, Ramp doesn't end self test message). Fixed by replacing a SMT transistor (which most probably wasn't bad at all), and one more thoroughly board cleaning run.

Anyway, now they're working again, what do one want to do with TDS420's? Anyone to know if one can hack them to 460's?

removing capacitor in inputstage-PCB and sorting of Resistor-ID on acquisition board.
But, you must running Field adjustment Software to recovery of bandwidth 350Mhz.
This is a problem.

here 2 photo, inputstage is from 2 ch-TDS430A with 400Mhz Bandwidth, look four red marking near heatsink.

[bd139]

Does this solve the whole problem of duck either being almost universally overcooked or undercooked? Fancying Chinese with all this duck talk now 

No, nothing can solve that problem: fools are so damn ingenious.

Indeed. I am clearly a fool on that one after blowing £18 on duck breast and being unable to cook it to any reasonable standard despite reading every damn article on cooking it properly. It has defeated me. No other food has so far! I suppose I'll have to wait until Moro cycle it onto their menu and leverage a "working lunch" so I don't have to pay for it 

Edit: never seen vegan pigs in blankets. Sound bloody horrible. I'm not opposed to veganism as such but some of the creations in the name of replicating meat are just horiffic.

Agreed. They were as good as most Asda ready meals: eat them if starving, otherwise wonder whether you want to finish eating them. (N.B. ASDA does have some good stuff, but you have to be selective!)

Asda is a bit of a minefield generally I find. There's one literally 5 minutes walk from me and it's a really small one. You can go in there and leave empty handed regularly therefore having to sadly be gouged by Just Eat or some other bastards for something edible. Despite owning a car, I'd rather be a snob and go to Waitrose which is 10 minutes on the bus and I can shut my eyes for the duration and listen to some music,

I oppose vegans that think it is a safe diet. The two crunch points are B12 (only obtainable from meat/fish/dairy/shit; the latter is the source for the 3rd world poor), and calcium. Both deficiencies take decades to manifest themselves, thus allowing plenty of time for fools to live in their paradise while they irreparably damage themselves and/or their kids.

Getting B12 and Ca from supplements is fine, of course, but that goes against the "natural food" concepts that often permeate vegan "thinking".

I put "thinking" in quotes because when vegans are asked how they get B12 and Ca they mention that X contains a lot of it. When asked how much X they would need to eat to get the RDA, they haven't thought of that. Hint: do you think eating 3kg of broccoli or 2 teaspoons of marmite every day is realistic?

Yes there's not a lot of "thinking" going on there as far as nutrition goes. My sister is a vegan and has constant problems with fatigue and anemia despite being the nearest thing to a qualified medican professional (vet surgeon) in the family. I'm not sure what's going on there. What I do know is you don't approach the subject without getting the stink eye.

Edit 2: just spent my new bench budget on walking gear  . Figure it's probably better to spend it on moving stuff than sitting on my fat arse stuff 

Is that your equivalent of buying membership of the local gym or sports club 

Actually sort of. I was having a the new years clear out and found all my stuff is falling to bits. So I wrote a list and bought replacements. And a flask. So I can have nicely stewed for 6 hours coffee on a walk.

@bd139 regarding office furniture and nicotene, when I try to revive an old pinball machine and it is completely crusted in nicotene, I take out Red Devil, spray it on and wipe it off immediately. It takes any nicotene right off. You should not leave it on any surface for too long though, it started to dissolve the PE container I keep it in.

But for getting dirt and nicotene off a surface: I don't know any better solvent. Wear gloves though.

As I probably mentioned in the distant past, I did a summer job a very long time ago now for the Furniture Industry Research Association. As a junior lab monkey my task was to develop a method to effectively test surfaces for nicotine discolouration. I designed a smoking machine which would smoke a pipe and with the aid of a vacuum pump and filter it would suck this into a vacuum flask containing the material. Looked like this roughly:



This lead to me passive smoking about 7kg of tobacco and having to scrub 5mm thick layers of that and tar off everything. Ugh. Until you've dealt with it like that it looks approachable.

I look now and I just walk away. I can't face it.

On the positive note, you don't know a good job until you've had a shit job.

Anyway back to turning all the christmas gifted wine into urine and watching ST Voyager... 

[tautech]

More.....

Tomorrow I start tackling the clean up of the mainframe.

Will most of the carbon comp resistors still be OK or are ya going to shotgun them ?

[bd139]

More.....

Tomorrow I start tackling the clean up of the mainframe.

Will most of the carbon comp resistors still be OK or are ya going to shotgun them ?

Shottgunning them on ceramic strips is a risky thing to do.

[med6753]

More.....

Tomorrow I start tackling the clean up of the mainframe.

Will most of the carbon comp resistors still be OK or are ya going to shotgun them ?

Shottgunning them on ceramic strips is a risky thing to do.

Agreed and Tek used Allen-Bradley resistors which are usually pretty bullet proof.

[tautech]

More.....

Tomorrow I start tackling the clean up of the mainframe.

Will most of the carbon comp resistors still be OK or are ya going to shotgun them ?

Shottgunning them on ceramic strips is a risky thing to do.

Yeah well, that's why we use silver bearing solder. 

Med, did you see this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/my-tektronix-310-basket-case-project/
It's certainly worth a read.

[bd139]

It's more the issue of there being multiple fragile components per solder joint than the actual joint material. The ceramic strips can take a lot of punishment. The other components can't!

[capt bullshot]

Done fixing these two guys:
Both of them were victims of the capacitor plague, still some self test failures left after replacing all the SMT electrolytic caps.

Left hand one had a stable Acquisition board fail (delayed trigger doesn't work), otherwise OK. Fixed by removing and re-soldering the trigger select / comparator chip 

Right hand one had some intermittent Acq. failure (missing samples in ETS mode, Ramp doesn't end self test message). Fixed by replacing a SMT transistor (which most probably wasn't bad at all), and one more thoroughly board cleaning run.

Anyway, now they're working again, what do one want to do with TDS420's? Anyone to know if one can hack them to 460's?

removing capacitor in inputstage-PCB and sorting of Resistor-ID on acquisition board.
But, you must running Field adjustment Software to recovery of bandwidth 350Mhz.
This is a problem.

So, one of them just died on me again. Some overheat smell, no smoke and fuse blown. Will have to check the SMPS again (I've already removed the flakey auto voltage select module), maybe this time it's the main transistor (the other one had this failure).

Removing the caps seems easy to try, the Leo Bodnar pulser easily will reveal the result, already discovered which ID resistor changes the power on message to TDS460. Never came across the Field adjustment SW for TDS4xx, so this might be a problem if anything needs to be re-calibrated.

[worsthorse]

I am stuck in a maze of twisty little transistors, mostly all alike. I thought I had the 184 working up to the edge of the first countdown board, when it stopped putting out markers above 0.5us.  There's this chain of three or four transistors, inductors, diodes, and capacitors that seems to work until it doesn't. I am still puzzling out the circuit, a fact complicated by the differences between the parts listed in the BOM and what's on the board. This section has clearly been reworked so whatever it is, it isn't a new problem.

Probably heat related but not sure; I stopped last night before doing something stupid (again).

Ten minutes after walking away from the bench I decided that I need to get re-acquainted with Linux, so I dug up an old Dell Chromebook and installed Linux on it. Tried to do a dual boot with Chromeos (why? because you can, of course) but it failed due to some dynamic weirdness during the boot sequence, so I flashed a full custom ROM and did a clean install. Now I just need to figure out how to trim down the graphical user interface to the minimum, add a root password, and see if I can avoid bricking it while I re-learn Linux. 

[worsthorse]

It's more the issue of there being multiple fragile components per solder joint than the actual joint material. The ceramic strips can take a lot of punishment. The other components can't!

It is both, actually. The silver plating on those strips is a bit fragile. I try not to stick a soldering iron into those unless I really really must.

And the composition resistors? That seems to be part of the 184 problem, too... a number of the resistors have drifted enough to change the bias on a whole string of transistors. I am trying to figure out if I can do something beside replacing them as I am not sure the countdown board can stand another round of rework.

[tautech]

It's more the issue of there being multiple fragile components per solder joint than the actual joint material. The ceramic strips can take a lot of punishment. The other components can't!

It is both, actually. The silver plating on those strips is a bit fragile. I try not to stick a soldering iron into those unless I really really must.

And the composition resistors? That seems to be part of the 184 problem, too... a number of the resistors have drifted enough to change the bias on a whole string of transistors. I am trying to figure out if I can do something beside replacing them as I am not sure the countdown board can stand another round of rework.

CRO's are another thing entirely when it comes to their HV and high ohm value divider resistors....it is rare when they haven't drifted wildy from their original values.

[madao]

Done fixing these two guys:

Both of them were victims of the capacitor plague, still some self test failures left after replacing all the SMT electrolytic caps.

Left hand one had a stable Acquisition board fail (delayed trigger doesn't work), otherwise OK. Fixed by removing and re-soldering the trigger select / comparator chip 

Right hand one had some intermittent Acq. failure (missing samples in ETS mode, Ramp doesn't end self test message). Fixed by replacing a SMT transistor (which most probably wasn't bad at all), and one more thoroughly board cleaning run.

Anyway, now they're working again, what do one want to do with TDS420's? Anyone to know if one can hack them to 460's?

Here  a tektronix FAS für TDS400 Series.
But, i can't check, because, i have selled all my  TDS400 Series and i have only a  TDS430A spare part (show life sign, but not useable)

[bd139]

It's more the issue of there being multiple fragile components per solder joint than the actual joint material. The ceramic strips can take a lot of punishment. The other components can't!

It is both, actually. The silver plating on those strips is a bit fragile. I try not to stick a soldering iron into those unless I really really must.

And the composition resistors? That seems to be part of the 184 problem, too... a number of the resistors have drifted enough to change the bias on a whole string of transistors. I am trying to figure out if I can do something beside replacing them as I am not sure the countdown board can stand another round of rework.

CRO's are another thing entirely when it comes to their HV and high ohm value divider resistors....it is rare when they haven't drifted wildy from their original values.

Anything above 200V or so seems to bend them out of shape. The Heathkit VTVM I did earlier this year was a fine example. I think they were all wonky. As med suggests, the AB ones are slightly above par on survivability.

I have consumed the entire stock of alcohol in the house now. Exercising that liver. I can apparently still type which is quite frankly miraculous. I'm sure i'll be suffering from a complex case of miserablefuckeritis in the morning 

Edit: found a picture of the aforementioned VTVM bastard