Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[worsthorse]

I warily ventured back down to the test bench this morning. The 184 lay in wait for my return. But first I needed to put another scope on the bench (both the 485 and the 2465 are in the repair queue with squealing fans), so I got out the trusty 475A. This was the first piece of bench TE I bought when I got back building and I like using it.  I set it up, calibrated two of the Tek probes, and sat down to work on the 184.

The first thing I noticed was a lot of noise on the scope trace.      What else could go wrong this week?  Then I notice that it comes and goes. Then I notice that it comes and goes as I move the probes around.  I moved the probe up near the task light and a 40mv 25KHz sine-ish wave appeared on the scope.

It was the circular tube fluorescent light I just added to my bench. 



Yes, no ballast. Instead an unshielded, badly made SMPS, radiating to beat the band.   

For bonus points: the output wires of the SMPS are soldered directly to the light, so the tube can't be replaced if it burns out.   

I put the damn thing out of its misery, saving the arm and hardware, to which I will attach a proper light fixture, and gave the magnifying lens to Amy, who will use it in some ikebana arrangement at some point.

Now back to making sure the 475A is working as it should so I see how much of the 184 I fried last night. One bright spot... most of the transistors are garden variety, so I probably have equivalents in inventory.

[Cerebus]

I'd promised myself that I wasn't going to bring the whole matter up here but, sod it, I'm genuinely concerned and I don't want to let mention of the matter pass without sounding a warning bell. That said, this is the only thing I'm going to say on the matter and once I've said my bit I'm going to shut up. A protracted debate would not only be off topic, but has way too much chance of running off and getting out of hand.

That is correct. I spent some time working it all out. Armed response unit rather graphically blew two holes in the dude about a minute after the above video.

Only after the police physically dragged off the (brave, unarmed) bystanders who had restrained and immobilized him. It looks like an opportunity to arrest him without further loss of life was not taken or even considered. It looks like with Cressida Dick in charge of the whole Met (you know, the one who was in charge of the operation when Charles de Menezes was executed after a litany of stupid mistakes by the police) that the Police feel that arresting restrained people and prosecuting them is old hat when they can be judge, jury and executioner. I'm sure that they have a slew of excuses ready for why they didn't just slap cuffs on him and, if necessary run off and leave him to the bomb squad, but from where I'm sitting it looked like no course other than execution was considered and I have a horrible suspicion that a 'shoot to kill' policy is in effect just as it was in Northern Ireland (no matter how many times the latter has been officially denied, we know it existed).

The parallels with the Charles de Menezes case genuinely worry me. (Accounts of bystanders were that Menezes was deliberately shot in the head multiple times while being physically restrained by police officers.) That was done where we couldn't see it, this was on video where it can't be fudged or denied. If the police have a formal shoot to kill policy in place (whether actually written down and hidden behind the Official Secrets Acts or whether just word of mouth) it is, under British law as it stands, conspiracy to murder. That would put the Police in the position of deliberately breaking the law, with official collusion. Once you let that happen it's just the top of a very nasty, very slippery slope. If they are going to do this sort of thing it needs putting on a proper lawful basis and debated in public, not hidden behind 'operational security' and left up to coppers in back rooms to decide when it's OK to step outside the law.

There is a worryingly long list of innocent people deliberately killed by the police in the UK, and people up to no good who were killed where other tactics short of lethal force could and should have been used to stop them. No meaningful justice for these victims has ever been achieved, even though a tiny handful of police officers have been tried (but not convicted) of murder or manslaughter. I do not feel safe in any country where the police don't get to answer for their crimes and to me the very latest incident looks like it might be going to add to the list.

Let's be clear, this looks to be a prima facie case of a bad guy going bad things, but if there were any options other than immediately executing him (when already restrained remember) then they should have been taken, both as a matter of English law^* and as a question of doing what's morally right. No doubt, the line of when to kill someone and when it's possible to arrest them in this kind of situation is a thin one, but I fear that a (secret) official position has been taken to not bother with the fine details and just blast away, and we know that kind of action lead to the death of the completely innocent Charles de Menezes.

The question is when does this policy takes its next innocent life because the police know that they don't have to worry about the consequences of killing, and if they happen to slaughter someone innocent they will get away scot free. If the people who murdered Menezes and others had answered to the law and were languishing in jail I probably wouldn't be worrying whether this guy could possibly have been taken alive.

When there is a group of people running around with guns who know that they can literally get away with murder if they repeat the litany "I believed that my life was at risk and I fired to protect myself" and are not called to account when the facts do not support that belief then we're all at risk. There's history here, and that history having not been dealt with properly casts the current events in an unfavourable light.

OK, said my bit, gonna shut up on the topic now.

^* Under the law the British police have a duty to preserve life and when lawfully using force are required to only use force that is strictly necessary.

[Cerebus]

For example, currently the masthead is https://newsthump.com/2019/11/30/bbc-planning-to-disguise-andrew-neil-as-andrew-marr-for-boris-johnson-interview/ or perhaps https://newsthump.com/2019/11/27/conservative-campaign-hq-has-pant-fire-extinguishers-installed/

I, personally, particularly liked: https://newsthump.com/2019/11/29/ice-sculpture-given-more-prominent-role-in-conservative-campaign-following-gaff-free-debate-performance/

[mnementh]

Quiet in 'ere tonight.

Jeff bin in?

Naaahhh.... 'es at the Fox & Hound with all th' other undead. 

I’ve been busy inspecting the insides of my eyelids.

Find any pinholes...?

Nothing as remotely remarkable as one of our citizens fighting a terrorist with a 5 foot long Narwhal tusk. Had to read that headline about five times before it began to compute.

Same for me. Epic indeed.
I've read something about it being decoration from a fishmarket?!

I like the answer posted here:

@dalerobertclark

I salute each and every one of them BUT, there's always a BUT........

A whale tusk?!?

Who the F**K walks about carrying a whale tusk?!?

Excellently used by the way

‏@bossydog  Replying to @dalerobertclark

"He’s also Polish. Bloody foreigners coming here saving lives."

In the words of MacArthur....."I have returned"

This flight had no drama, was on time, and the drive home uneventful. But still I'm exhausted. 

Starting tomorrow morning and through Monday winter storm here. Upwards of a foot of snow. I got all the provisions I need for the next few days so no need to go out. 

In the words of Sid from dBase Mgt: "Sod off, ye manky git."

Yup... we're expecting summa datt here shortly... spent CAD$650 putting two reasonably aggressive Goodyear snow tires on the front of the Rav4 today; that's more than I'm used to spending on a full set of 4.

Skinflint bastard I was, broke the poor tire salesman's heart and refused to buy 4, despite his best cajoling with "Tire Points".

"I'm sorry; I just can't afford to spend another $650 on tires & wheels right now."

"Oh, we've got the Triangle Card... zero percent for the next 24 months..."

"That I KNOW I don't NEED." 

mnem
Can you hear my eyes rolling from all the way over here...?

[Cerebus]

Hmm, tempting. I have no good reason why, other than perhaps nostalgia, but tempting.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-W-G-PYE-Co-Ltd-Scalamp-Galvanometer-UNTESTED/372858379874

[bd139]

Cerebus I agree generally here but this specific case was logical and well within their remit. The guy had presented what appeared to be explosives strapped to himself quite obviously (I saw the video feed via Twitter) and had threatened to blow himself up. Alas they turned out to be fake but in this case it was justifiable force to prevent him from triggering a vest if that was indeed what he had intended to do. If he had not presented with a vest and was not potentially armed with explosives or a firearm it would be a different matter. I was initially critical of the whole thing until that was confirmed visually by multiple sources. Charles de Menezes was a mess of a case and a different context. That was definitely wrong and whoever was involved in that should be in prison for murder.

Just got my MRF101 PA to kick out some watts and got a rather good outcome. 80W out on first power up on 28V. Literally just swapped the IRF510’s out!

[mnementh]

OK, said my bit, gonna shut up on the topic now.

^* Under the law the British police have a duty to preserve life and when lawfully using force are required to only use force that is strictly necessary.

Speaking as someone who's trying to escape from the land of batshit crazy where people die in police custody after being arrested for driving while black and children gunned down in their own homes by the same "Protectors and Keepers of the Peace" without even being INVESTIGATED, it is actually heartening to hear someone voice these same concerns over civilian Police forces gone military full-metal-jacket psycho.

It is my considered opinion that it SHOULD be the FBI's job to investigate EVERY SINGLE Police shooting as if it were premeditated, that the Police should be held to a higher standard than some drunken fuckwit in the street, and that is is just as much their job to protect that drunken fuckwit as to protect me.

You want the respect that goes with the mantle... you need to take on the higher standard too.

@bd: I disagree. What I've seen of the after work indicates there was pretty much ZERO attempt to even give the guy a chance to take off the "vest"; at one point his hands were seen visibly EMPTY of any trigger or deadman. it was an execution.

That said, I will follow C's example and speak no further on the subject.

mnem
At least you lot haven't devolved to the point of "Stand Your Ground" laws... 

[mnementh]

I warily ventured back down to the test bench this morning. The 184 lay in wait for my return. But first I needed to put another scope on the bench (both the 485 and the 2465 are in the repair queue with squealing fans), so I got out the trusty 475A. This was the first piece of bench TE I bought when I got back building and I like using it.  I set it up, calibrated two of the Tek probes, and sat down to work on the 184.

The first thing I noticed was a lot of noise on the scope trace.      What else could go wrong this week?  Then I notice that it comes and goes. Then I notice that it comes and goes as I move the probes around.  I moved the probe up near the task light and a 40mv 25KHz sine-ish wave appeared on the scope.

It was the circular tube fluorescent light I just added to my bench. 



Yes, no ballast. Instead an unshielded, badly made SMPS, radiating to beat the band.   

For bonus points: the output wires of the SMPS are soldered directly to the light, so the tube can't be replaced if it burns out.   

I put the damn thing out of its misery, saving the arm and hardware, to which I will attach a proper light fixture, and gave the magnifying lens to Amy, who will use it in some ikebana arrangement at some point.

Now back to making sure the 475A is working as it should so I see how much of the 184 I fried last night. One bright spot... most of the transistors are garden variety, so I probably have equivalents in inventory.

Ummm.... you do realize that there are LED rings in warm, bright, and daylight white available on fleaBay in pretty much all sizes imaginable for a mere pittance or two, right...?

mnem
*plerp*

[bd139]

@mnem: nope. There were people less than 25M away in busses. Probably 100 people. Collateral damage could have been pretty high of it was a high explosive. He could have triggered it during removal before or during evacuation. This is very very rare here and investigation of every shooting takes place. So far - law enforcement killings in 2019:

USA = 996
U.K. = 3

I think we’re doing ok. I can’t not support the outcome with all the facts in place.

The tragedy here is really the failing of the parole system. He was wearing a tag and being monitored.

[mnementh]

Nope. Not gonna.   

mnem
*foraging for goodies in the groceries my wife just brought home*

[Cerebus]

Nope. Not gonna.   

Yup, same here. If I can't keep the rules I made for myself what chuffing good am I?

Well, except obviously not the rules like 'I can't have another cake until Friday'. Obviously some of the rules I make for myself are more 'guidelines' or 'expressions of desired outcomes' and have to be re-evaluated in light of later circumstances such as 'what if I really want a cake?'. 

[Specmaster]

@BD139, I totally agree, I've watched many videos of the shooting and I honestly believe that was the right call, the idiot was aware of the consequences of his actions having been convicted already of terrorism and wearing in dummy explosive vest, it might have been the result he was looking for, we will never know unless he left some clue behind at his abode. I think if I was one of those police, faced with the evidence of the all to apparent vest, I would pull the trigger so that I could go home to my family safe and sound.

@worsthorse I have the same issue with my illuminated desk mounted magnifier, taking the cover of revealed a similar SMPS unit with the florescent ring appearing to directly soldered to it, but there is a square socket on the other end that plugs onto the 4 pins of the tube. Have you actually checked your tube or is not a full circle? 

[bd139]

Nope. Not gonna.   

Yup, same here. If I can't keep the rules I made for myself what chuffing good am I?

Well, except obviously not the rules like 'I can't have another cake until Friday'. Obviously some of the rules I make for myself are more 'guidelines' or 'expressions of desired outcomes' and have to be re-evaluated in light of later circumstances such as 'what if I really want a cake?'. 

That’s why I never make rules. If I make a rule I tend to stick to it. And I’d never have cake.

Same as I said I’m not going to buy another tek scope. Have you seen any tek scopes recently? I have merrily skipped past about ten 

[Specmaster]

Nope. Not gonna.   

Yup, same here. If I can't keep the rules I made for myself what chuffing good am I?

Well, except obviously not the rules like 'I can't have another cake until Friday'. Obviously some of the rules I make for myself are more 'guidelines' or 'expressions of desired outcomes' and have to be re-evaluated in light of later circumstances such as 'what if I really want a cake?'. 

Or what if while applying your rules, he managed to detonate the vest and took you out with him? The only way they effectively had of taking him alive was handcuff him while he was held down by the civilian, but even that would have been highly risky.

[Cerebus]

Nope. Not gonna.   

Yup, same here. If I can't keep the rules I made for myself what chuffing good am I?

Well, except obviously not the rules like 'I can't have another cake until Friday'. Obviously some of the rules I make for myself are more 'guidelines' or 'expressions of desired outcomes' and have to be re-evaluated in light of later circumstances such as 'what if I really want a cake?'. 

Or what if while applying your rules, he managed to detonate the vest and took you out with him? The only way they effectively had of taking him alive was handcuff him while he was held down by the civilian, but even that would have been highly risky.

Hmm, what the flip does that have to do with my rules about me saying nothing more on the subject, or not eating cake until Friday? Those are the only rules I've promulgated here. The only other rules I've indirectly referred to recently are the rules of law. They aren't mine.

Asking me a direct question by quoting me is a bit infra dig when I've said that I'll keep stum on the subject. Particular when quoting something where I've restated by determination to keep my word. Next thing we know you'll be round my house dangling cakes outside my window...

[mnementh]

Nope. Not gonna.   

Yup, same here. If I can't keep the rules I made for myself what chuffing good am I?

Well, except obviously not the rules like 'I can't have another cake until Friday'. Obviously some of the rules I make for myself are more 'guidelines' or 'expressions of desired outcomes' and have to be re-evaluated in light of later circumstances such as 'what if I really want a cake?'. 

*looks up* mmmnnmmmmllllmmmmphhhh...?  *sweeps crumb-covered plate into desk drawer and shoves it shut*

mnem
Ahhh nevah met da confection in question!!! 

[mnementh]

Or what if while applying your rules, he managed to detonate the vest and took you out with him? The only way they effectively had of taking him alive was handcuff him while he was held down by the civilian, but even that would have been highly risky.

Hmm, what the flip does that have to do with my rules about me saying nothing more on the subject, or not eating cake until Friday? Those are the only rules I've promulgated here. The only other rules I've indirectly referred to recently are the rules of law. They aren't mine.

Asking me a direct question by quoting me is a bit infra dig when I've said that I'll keep stum on the subject. Particular when quoting something where I've restated by determination to keep my word. Next thing we know you'll be round my house dangling cakes outside my window...

Cellular peptide cake... WITH MINT FROSTING!!!

mnem
Still better than scones.

[VK5RC]

Unfortunately I have never met a calorie (or kilojoule) I didn't like!
(says he in a straight jacket to try and avoid being the size of a house)
Did someone say there are cookies here?

[Cerebus]

Did someone mention my name?

[Cerebus]

Oh god! I've just realized that the Cookie Monster is "Smurf Cerebus"! Arrrrrgggggghhhhhh.......

[mnementh]

You say that as if it were a bad thing...

@worsthorse I have the same issue with my illuminated desk mounted magnifier, taking the cover of revealed a similar SMPS unit with the florescent ring appearing to directly soldered to it, but there is a square socket on the other end that plugs onto the 4 pins of the tube. Have you actually checked your tube or is not a full circle?

https://www.banggood.com/DANIU-Flexible-Desk-Large-33cm33cm-5X-USB-LED-Magnifying-Glass-3-Colors-Illuminated-Magnifier-Lamp-Loupe-p-1592702.html

I ordered one yesterday. Cost with expedited Canada Post shipping was like US$28.

mnem
*lit AF*

[drussell]

Cellular peptide cake... WITH MINT FROSTING!!!

LOL...  I just watched that episode last night... 

[mnementh]

It's great as long as you wash it down with a little Saurian Brandy... 

mnem
Then move onto the harder stuff...

[med6753]

Oh god! I've just realized that the Cookie Monster is "Smurf Cerebus"! Arrrrrgggggghhhhhh.......

You rang? 

[worsthorse]

I warily ventured back down to the test bench this morning. The 184 lay in wait for my return. But first I needed to put another scope on the bench (both the 485 and the 2465 are in the repair queue with squealing fans), so I got out the trusty 475A. This was the first piece of bench TE I bought when I got back building and I like using it.  I set it up, calibrated two of the Tek probes, and sat down to work on the 184.

The first thing I noticed was a lot of noise on the scope trace.      What else could go wrong this week?  Then I notice that it comes and goes. Then I notice that it comes and goes as I move the probes around.  I moved the probe up near the task light and a 40mv 25KHz sine-ish wave appeared on the scope.

It was the circular tube fluorescent light I just added to my bench. 



Yes, no ballast. Instead an unshielded, badly made SMPS, radiating to beat the band.   

For bonus points: the output wires of the SMPS are soldered directly to the light, so the tube can't be replaced if it burns out.   

I put the damn thing out of its misery, saving the arm and hardware, to which I will attach a proper light fixture, and gave the magnifying lens to Amy, who will use it in some ikebana arrangement at some point.

Now back to making sure the 475A is working as it should so I see how much of the 184 I fried last night. One bright spot... most of the transistors are garden variety, so I probably have equivalents in inventory.

Ummm.... you do realize that there are LED rings in warm, bright, and daylight white available on fleaBay in pretty much all sizes imaginable for a mere pittance or two, right...?

mnem
*plerp*

*sigh* yes i do know that. i said i was an idjit, didn't i? i bought this one locally after a frustrating morning of working in the dim, cavern-like corner of the basement that is my test bench.  i was desperate. nevertheless i bow my head in shame for not doing proper research, being patient, and buying the correct tool for the job.