Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[tautech]

OK so I bought this fair and square with a single last minute bid with a max bid of a good bit more.
Paid for it a few days ago using the 'Bay option of additional delivery costs to a kind member that's prepared to on-ship it to me in NZ as the seller listed it was only for US delivery.

Now I get 'Bay mail the seller has cancelled the sale and a refund is coming !    

It's a sale contract is it not ? 
What's up with the world when you buy something fair and square only to have the buyer back out of the deal without so much as a message explaining why ?

My 100% buyers rating is at risk ! 
So wise 'Bay members, what can I do now ? 

Don't worry, you are not going to get a bad feedback, to be sure I thing that even the seller will not say anything regarding this.

And you think I don't have something to say about this and impact on the sellers 100% feedback rating ? ? ?
Tell me another one ! 

Sometimes that happens, you win something and then the seller changes ideas and refund you with the excuse that the item is broken or was lost or whatever.

The probe was listed as in new condition.

Do it too much times and you have to provide explanations to eBay and will not be able to sell for a while.

That's the least you would expect !

Same as you buying something and then asking for a refund because you changed ideas.

Nope, if I put something up for sale I takes what I gets.

Probably he wanted more for the item and since it didn't achieve what he wanted, now he will re-list it in a later date.

Really ? Tough titties ! The world doesn't always go to plan.

Regarding what you can do, well that is not a dispute and even if you open a dispute it will be closed as soon the seller refunds you. That's how eBay is. Even if you say you want the item in the conditions he show in the ad, not the refund, you are powerless.

Still I'll be having a go.

[tautech]

Yup; sad but true. He IS allowed under the rules of eBay to cancel the sale, even for "seller's remorse". The only thing you can hope for is that he makes a habit of acting on it and gets booted... but then you're condemning dozens of other eBayers to the same fate.

mnem
*toddling off to ded*

Right. 
OK, so a remorseful seller can't pull a listing before it closes ? 

[Martin.M]

perfekt for testing audiophile amplifiers: the distortion is extremly low 

[AVGresponding]

Looooove Arch Enemy, and Alyssa is a worthy successor to Angela.

Would also love to hear some Mushroomhead played on a $1m system, though I doubt the owner of the system would   

[bd139]

Hahaha we actually have War Eternal by them playing here now in my eldest’s bedroom 

The second half of “You Push Me” by Implant would be good.

[tggzzz]

Most of the FDM printers can get to similar resolution. Standard is 0.4mm nozzles and 0.2mm layers. 0.1mm Layer is fairly easy to go and dropping the nozzle size to 0.3 works and you can get 0.2 (tough to get it working well)

Here are some examples of the same components made in three different materials

• white: DirtyPCBs' SLA
• purple: Shapeways' strong and flexible nylon
• red: Prusa printer's PLA, 0.4mm nozzle, 0.15mm step, 100% infill

In the pictures below, the surface finish of the PLA and nylon is easy to see, but that of the SLA is so smooth the part appears to be out of focus!

The first component is a scope probe tip designed to (successfully) minimise the inductance of a ground lead. The dimensions and finish are non-critical, and the internal nibs are an interference fit over the probe.

The nylon is the best material since the outer walls deform when the probe is inserted, gripping well but allowing the probe tip to be easily removed without damage to the probe. The PLA works, but requires careful reaming out for it to be an interference fit, and its hardness an roughness damages the probe. The SLA is intermediate. Overall the PLA is sufficient to prove the concept, but it unsatisfactory otherwise.


The second component is a handle for a Tek P6013 HT probe. The key design feature is that the 2mm pitch thread which screws into the HT part of the probe.

The SLA variant works perfectly, inparticular the thread works surprisingly well. The PLA variant is a failure: the thread doesn't screw in, and the slicer automatically modified the shoulder's overhang.


The final component is a collet for a Tek 24x5 squirrel cage cooling fan. The design points are the compression of the collet inside the fan, by being pulled to the left with a screw.

Lightly compressing the PLA variant with fingertips caused it to fracture along a layer boundary, so it is unlikely it could survive the tension exerted by the screw. That's not entirely surprising, PLA (and similar materials/depositions) was never going to be a good material for this task. The SLA variant works well, and will probably be OK in the medium term: the SLA scope probe handle is fine after 4 years, and the collet won't get very warm.

You can not make any conclusions with a printer that is clearly not set up correctly let alone based on a sample size of one. The collet example with the PLA shows retraction issues (random wisps and blobs in between the collet jaws), over extraction (bulging on the sides or possibly belt issues) and I suspect the temperature of the extruder is 5-10 degrees to low (shot is a little fuzzy but the bright shiny lines show clean separation on most of the fin so poorly bonded on the sheared layer). As to the option to use FDM the jaws are to small in size with that layer orientation let alone with a badly setup printer.

The principal settings were as defined by the person that maintains the printer and has used it far more than I have.

I am perfectly happy to believe that with some fettling better results could be achieved. I still doubt that the strength would be sufficient, and I am not interested in fettling with somebody else's printer.

As to threads anything M12 course and above works fine in PLA, M10 Course with a tweak to the thread clearances works too but nothing under that. An example below close up of my Fluke 5616 RTD case which is an M14 picked because it was close at hand.

That thread still looks crude; it might be sufficient in some circumstances, but not for the purpose I indicated.

There is no argument about the surface quality of SLA over FDM. Putting up one off 'fdm inappropriate' designs/models and poorly setup printer to back your ongoing position with very limited use cases in particular hands on use remains an issue.

Of course PLA is an inappropriate material! Which bit of "PLA (and similar materials/depositions) was never going to be a good material for this task" did you miss?

I did not make any global statements. I provided a small number of data points, and am content to leave others to draw their own conclusions.

You, OTOH, appear to be oversensitive when anybody points out that SLA printers have characteristics not shared with other additive manufacturing processes.

I have no intention of re-opening the previous nastiness w.r.t. 3D printers, and will not do that.

[med6753]

Don't those girls risk permanent damage to their voices singing that low?

This is much better. Let the girl sing and the guy does the low stuff.  Besides, she is hot, hot, hot! 

[tggzzz]

Letting it warm up for two hours    as suggested in the service manual, I was pleased to find that the local oven-ized 10MHz oscillator running at a steady 10,000,032 Hz and drifting no more than +/- 1Hz. While that is well within spec, we will see if we can do better a little later. And to be honest, the oscillator was running at that frequency within ten minutes of turning it on and didn't move after that.

And how accurate did it need to be for contemporary analoge scopes? Their spec was usually 2%!

But at 500ns, things start to look not so good:
Same for mixed markers (500ns and 100ns):

There are lots of trimpots that interact with everything else. Maybe improving the PSU ripple will help.

It is not surprising that there's cross talk here, nothing in the box is shielded:
...
I will start by looking at the power supply more carefully tomorrow and see if I can clean it up. It has been a while since I worked on anything generating frequencies like this...

It is also worth understanding which parts are and aren't powered up on the various settings. Quite apart from overall power dissipation, the available signal power was insufficient to drive all subcircuits at the same time.

[beanflying]

The principal settings were as defined by the person that maintains the printer and has used it far more than I have.

I am perfectly happy to believe that with some fettling better results could be achieved. I still doubt that the strength would be sufficient, and I am not interested in fettling with somebody else's printer.

As to threads anything M12 course and above works fine in PLA, M10 Course with a tweak to the thread clearances works too but nothing under that. An example below close up of my Fluke 5616 RTD case which is an M14 picked because it was close at hand.

That thread still looks crude; it might be sufficient in some circumstances, but not for the purpose I indicated.

There is no argument about the surface quality of SLA over FDM. Putting up one off 'fdm inappropriate' designs/models and poorly setup printer to back your ongoing position with very limited use cases in particular hands on use remains an issue.

Of course PLA is an inappropriate material! Which bit of "PLA (and similar materials/depositions) was never going to be a good material for this task" did you miss?

I did not make any global statements. I provided a small number of data points, and am content to leave others to draw their own conclusions.

You, OTOH, appear to be oversensitive when anybody points out that SLA printers have characteristics not shared with other additive manufacturing processes.

Re threads I have done some ACTUAL testing to find what can be made fit and work. It is FDM it has layers and it works so what exactly is the point against my ACTUAL data and experimental results other that you want to not admit that the FDM thread you were given was crap and was the fault not the process?

And you are pushing your lack of knowledge way beyond your background and usage of 3D printing. You tried yet again you are trying to conflate a poorly setup and used printer to inappropriately prove a point with a one off use in this case using an inappropriate model for FDM.

This is rubbish non sceince and non engineering on any front.

[PA0PBZ]

Besides, she is hot, hot, hot! 

Yes, we noticed the hair color! 

[tggzzz]

Please forgive me for wandering off on a tangent during this fascinating discussion on audiostoopid but I actually spent a couple of hours at my bench today working on test equipment.   

I replaced the Tek power plug on the 184, which is a right pain in the ass, with a power cord, and no longer have to look at this:

.......snip.....
Tggzzz has one of these beasts too and should be able compare his with yours to determine if in fact you have an issue.

It is mainly a case of how much time I'm prepared to invest. I didn't even bother to look at the PSU ripple; that might be an easy win.

If you look at the diagram, the whole thing is inherently "touchy". For example, there is insufficient signal power to drive all the stages simultaneously, and the divide-by-2 and divide-by-5 stages are analogue. Transistors were expensive, ICs unknown, and those division stages used only 3 transistors apiece; with flip-flops 8 transistors (and quite a few resistors) would have been needed.

The division principal was that each input pulse dumped a charge glug onto a capacitor. After 5 glugs the voltage had risen sufficiently that it triggered, discharged the capacitor and provided the pulse for the next stage. Since the glug size is somewhat dependent on the input pulse, it isn't surprising that there is interaction between stages.

[tggzzz]

The principal settings were as defined by the person that maintains the printer and has used it far more than I have.

I am perfectly happy to believe that with some fettling better results could be achieved. I still doubt that the strength would be sufficient, and I am not interested in fettling with somebody else's printer.

As to threads anything M12 course and above works fine in PLA, M10 Course with a tweak to the thread clearances works too but nothing under that. An example below close up of my Fluke 5616 RTD case which is an M14 picked because it was close at hand.

That thread still looks crude; it might be sufficient in some circumstances, but not for the purpose I indicated.

There is no argument about the surface quality of SLA over FDM. Putting up one off 'fdm inappropriate' designs/models and poorly setup printer to back your ongoing position with very limited use cases in particular hands on use remains an issue.

Of course PLA is an inappropriate material! Which bit of "PLA (and similar materials/depositions) was never going to be a good material for this task" did you miss?

I did not make any global statements. I provided a small number of data points, and am content to leave others to draw their own conclusions.

You, OTOH, appear to be oversensitive when anybody points out that SLA printers have characteristics not shared with other additive manufacturing processes.

Re threads I have done some ACTUAL testing to find what can be made fit and work. It is FDM it has layers and it works so what exactly is the point against my ACTUAL data and experimental results other that you want to not admit that the FDM thread you were given was crap and was the fault not the process?

And you are pushing your lack of knowledge way beyond your background and usage of 3D printing. You tried yet again you are trying to conflate a poorly setup and used printer to inappropriately prove a point with a one off use in this case using an inappropriate model for FDM.

This is rubbish non sceince and non engineering on any front.

As I said:

• I provided a couple of data points, not global statements
• I am not interested in fettling with a printer
• I am not going to reopen the previous discussion

YMMV

[alextwin007]

So I've just started collecting.  However saying I have a space constraint is an understatement, I have my collection and workbench in my bedroom.  However my way to deal with the lack of space is to collect small and cute test equipment  . 


Not shown is my workbench, only things off interest are power designes 4010 that I couldn't say no to, and  a dso 2014 as my daily driver scope.

[med6753]

This is a partial fail. Final 8810A follow up. Re-installed in the case and left off for 2 days. Powered up and after running overnight this is the result. With the 9.99691V reference it drifted down to 9.9965 to 66. Last run it was steady at 9.9968 to 69.



Why the difference? I can only assume something doesn't like being in the confined case. The last run had the top plate removed and out of the case. Now that it's all buttoned up it's drifting more. While it's still in spec compared to the 8800A's that DON'T exhibit this to me this is a fail. And since it's in the case it makes troubleshooting damn near impossible. So screw it, I'm done messing with it and I'll keep it around as a parts mule.     

[beanflying]

As I said:

• I provided a couple of data points, not global statements
• I am not interested in fettling with a printer
• I am not going to reopen the previous discussion

YMMV

There is ZERO wrong with offering an opinion at any time but to close your mind to others while espousing only your truth with limited usage and background when someone is looking to spend some $ is not doing anyone any favours.

Before you do this AGAIN answer me the following I put to you some time ago?

number of designs of YOURS you have had 3D printed by any method? 1, 2-5, 5-10 10+

number of Prints made by other? 1-5, 6-10 or 10+

number of prints made by you on a printer under your control 0, 1-5, 6-10 or 10+

[bd139]

Random question for everybody. I need a suggestion for a cheap and decent DMM from aliexpress/eBay. Something that has a micro amps range, works properly without any weirdness, has thermocouple. Doesn’t need crazy resolution. 3.5 digits is fine. I’m going to write up an article on a cheap RF test bench for sprat. We’re in a golden age of cheap so makes sense to promote this.

[beanflying]

Random question for everybody. I need a suggestion for a cheap and decent DMM from aliexpress/eBay. Something that has a micro amps range, works properly without any weirdness, has thermocouple. Doesn’t need crazy resolution. 3.5 digits is fine. I’m going to write up an article on a cheap RF test bench for sprat. We’re in a golden age of cheap so makes sense to promote this.

There was a recent thread on millivolts and the Aneng 8008 got a decent wrap https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33001360039.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.95742331gfUYWQ&algo_pvid=58f84fd7-8435-4dac-afec-0af77d7e6882&algo_expid=58f84fd7-8435-4dac-afec-0af77d7e6882-7&btsid=525bd148-1064-437d-bbb3-8df964ef2fe0&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4,searchweb201603_52

Microamps ranges should do you.

[bd139]

Yeah saw that. That was ranked #1 until no thermocouple

Aneng M11 is about right so far. I’m holding out for something better.

[beanflying]

AN870 ? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33004463675.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.19e14a991l6xka&algo_pvid=1e69d917-ba1c-4499-9f27-c95708e50792&algo_expid=1e69d917-ba1c-4499-9f27-c95708e50792-0&btsid=b57dde72-741a-449a-be74-ea680fce3245&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4,searchweb201603_52

I don't know the range at all as I haven't been in the market for a 9th or 10th handheld - I know I am a lightweight 

[bd139]

That looks pretty good actually. Got UT139C in list as well. That seems to have somewhat better protection than average.

[med6753]

So I've just started collecting.  However saying I have a space constraint is an understatement, I have my collection and workbench in my bedroom.  However my way to deal with the lack of space is to collect small and cute test equipment  . 
(Attachment Link)

Not shown is my workbench, only things off interest are power designes 4010 that I couldn't say no to, and  a dso 2014 as my daily driver scope.

Welcome to our menagerie of misfits.  Nice collection of miniature stuff. Hang around here and we'll have to buying bigger stuff in no time.   

I'm curious about the NLS scope. Useful or a toy or a total POS?

[tggzzz]

As I said:

• I provided a couple of data points, not global statements
• I am not interested in fettling with a printer
• I am not going to reopen the previous discussion

YMMV

There is ZERO wrong with offering an opinion at any time but to close your mind to others while espousing only your truth with limited usage and background when someone is looking to spend some $ is not doing anyone any favours.

Before you do this AGAIN answer me the following I put to you some time ago?

number of designs of YOURS you have had 3D printed by any method? 1, 2-5, 5-10 10+

number of Prints made by other? 1-5, 6-10 or 10+

number of prints made by you on a printer under your control 0, 1-5, 6-10 or 10+

Which bit of "I am not going to reopen the previous discussion" did you not understand?

In order to terminate this, I am perfectly willing to explicitly state that someone who has invested considerable time and effort to master their printer is more capable of producing wonderful prints than a neophyte like myself.

[Martin.M]

hey alex,
323 is cool. Build 1967, I have also one here
214 storage, nice. Most problem with them is demolition of parts and boards by the acid soup of dead batteries, no fund to restorate them.
The storage is some dark, but useful. 200 series is always expensive. I need a 211 to be complete.
When we become old + ugly, there is a Tek208 useful !

Martin

[beanflying]

As I said:

• I provided a couple of data points, not global statements
• I am not interested in fettling with a printer
• I am not going to reopen the previous discussion

YMMV

There is ZERO wrong with offering an opinion at any time but to close your mind to others while espousing only your truth with limited usage and background when someone is looking to spend some $ is not doing anyone any favours.

Before you do this AGAIN answer me the following I put to you some time ago?

number of designs of YOURS you have had 3D printed by any method? 1, 2-5, 5-10 10+

number of Prints made by other? 1-5, 6-10 or 10+

number of prints made by you on a printer under your control 0, 1-5, 6-10 or 10+

Which bit of "I am not going to reopen the previous discussion" did you not understand?

In order to terminate this, I am perfectly willing to explicitly state that someone who has invested considerable time and effort to master their printer is more capable of producing wonderful prints than a neophyte like myself.

Seriously you are not even going to reply and yet you did. And yet AGAIN chose to doge three simple questions? 

[bd139]

Fight! 

I'm 3d printing a potato at the moment