Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 18807467 times)

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Offline factory

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #41950 on: October 30, 2019, 09:47:40 pm »
Another TEA (Test Equipment Arrival  :)):

My new dual input power meter arrived safe and sound!
As I wrote some weeks ago I just bought a HP 438A power meter "for parts" for less then $70 delivered.
Yesterday it was delivered and when I opened the double card board box I was really surprised because it was packed using those foam-filled plastic bags that fit around the packaged item as the foam expands. Very nice! The meter was very well padded on all sides and couldn't move a bit. I haven't seen any other ebay seller doing this so far. Not even the "professional" surplus sellers I came across so far. This surplus seller really did a professional job, even in packaging.  :-+

The power supply section with the fan looks dirty with all the dust blown in by the fan, but basically no obvious failures:


But the input amplifier board A4 shows that it needs repair: several caps are bad, one is even corroded off the board on one side!



I've had a couple of sellers use the expanding foam bags, one was the Yokogawa oscilloscope (can't remember seller) and the other seller was "f1power01" in France, I bought a few things from them.

Hope you have seen the RIFA PME stink bomb next to the transformer, the corroded capacitors are usually wet tantalum types, edit: just had a closer look at the picture, they are Sprague type 109D wet tants.

David
« Last Edit: October 30, 2019, 09:49:49 pm by factory »
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #41951 on: October 30, 2019, 09:59:54 pm »
109D's like to explode too.  :--
 

Offline Neomys Sapiens

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #41952 on: October 30, 2019, 10:01:17 pm »
@factory: so "f1power01" is a seller you would recommend?
 

Offline Neomys Sapiens

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #41953 on: October 30, 2019, 10:03:23 pm »
@bd139: you were going to take that question from yesterday up again? Before being sleepy?
 

Offline URI

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #41954 on: October 30, 2019, 10:18:30 pm »
Hope you have seen the RIFA PME stink bomb next to the transformer, the corroded capacitors are usually wet tantalum types, edit: just had a closer look at the picture, they are Sprague type 109D wet tants.

Ups, haven't seen it yet.  :palm:  Thanks for the hint.
I think I would have stepped over it checking the input filter integrated in the IEC power inlet and voltage selector assembly..  :scared:

109D's like to explode too.  :--

Yes, I know. And those bastards look as they already got too warm/hot.  :rant:
Thanks anyway!
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #41955 on: October 30, 2019, 10:18:55 pm »
@bd139: you were going to take that question from yesterday up again? Before being sleepy?

Eventually. Too busy today actually doing proper work :--
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #41956 on: October 30, 2019, 10:31:00 pm »
The option 09 card for the 8840A showed up today (did a WTB on one of the TE lists). Plugged it in, turned the DMM on, ran the self test, and joy! it passed. Then I tried to measure some AC volts. sadness, it failed. Wandered off to have a coffee. Halfway through the cup, I realized though I properly cabled the board, I forgot to connect a small jumper on the main PCB.  |O

Wandered back downstairs, added the jumper, turned it on and double joy!... it passed the self test and properly measured AC voltage up to 50KHz and 10V. 

My fifteen dollar 8840A is now a forty dollar 8840A with AC volts and current measurement.   :-DMM
Pah, miss out a day or two and wham, there are pages of catching up to do, this thread has a life of its own thats for sure.  :-DD

Jolly good news about the 8840A, that sure was a real bargain, you only paid IIRC 15$ for the pair? One of those 8840A goes for over £130 with the AC option, fully working so you really did get a bargain.  :-+
Who let Murphy in?

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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #41957 on: October 30, 2019, 11:22:45 pm »
I had a metallic Kelly green Mk3 Cortina that looked magic polished up and in the sun. You don't see that color used much these days.  :-//

Ugh that caused a flashback. My mother had a bright metallic green Triumph Acclaim. Until she drove it into the bollards outside Tesco and totalled it  :palm:. She murdered three cars doing that, the last one a Peugeot 106 in Asda and a Nissan Almera in Aldi. She’s given up driving now thank fuck. It scares me parking in supermarkets because she wasn’t the worst person in them!
Must be a London thing thern I reckon, never seen such bad driving in supermarket car parks here. What we get here is people in their city cars parking so dammed close that sometimes I can't get out of or into my car at times due to the large front door and huge door bins, I have to open pretty wide before I can get, especially because the door is pretty think and then I have size 14UK (15US) feet so they need a lot of room to clear the door sill and door bins.  :-DD :-DD
Who let Murphy in?

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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #41958 on: October 30, 2019, 11:39:33 pm »
... I have size 14UK (15US) feet ...

You are Boffo the Clown and I claim my five pounds!
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #41959 on: October 31, 2019, 12:10:00 am »
... I have size 14UK (15US) feet ...

You are Boffo the Clown and I claim my five pounds!

Never heard of Boffo before  :-DD :-DD


Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-HP-Thurlby-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #41960 on: October 31, 2019, 12:18:38 am »
All this talk about calibration on 5.5 digit meters made me thing think I should check mine prior to the arrival of the Thurbly 1905A, switched them on for a few minutes and I'll take this as being on the money all day long thanks  :-DD Yeah, I know, the 3466A is only a 4.5 digit, the 2 Solartrons 6.5 digits I don't have connected at the moment.

« Last Edit: October 31, 2019, 12:56:58 am by Specmaster »
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-HP-Thurlby-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 

Offline 0culus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #41961 on: October 31, 2019, 12:22:36 am »
Another TEA (Test Equipment Arrival  :)):

My new dual input power meter arrived safe and sound!
As I wrote some weeks ago I just bought a HP 438A power meter "for parts" for less then $70 delivered.
Yesterday it was delivered and when I opened the double card board box I was really surprised because it was packed using those foam-filled plastic bags that fit around the packaged item as the foam expands. Very nice! The meter was very well padded on all sides and couldn't move a bit. I haven't seen any other ebay seller doing this so far. Not even the "professional" surplus sellers I came across so far. This surplus seller really did a professional job, even in packaging.  :-+

The auction pictures of the HP 438A showed the error message "No Channel A/Error 31" which just says that there's no sensor detected -what is normal when none is connected.   ;)

The front needs a bit of overall cleaning and a special treatment to get rid of some sticker residue:


As this is is a printed plastic sheet: what can I use for cleaning without damaging it?

The power supply section with the fan looks dirty with all the dust blown in by the fan, but basically no obvious failures:


The main processor board A3 isn't very exciting, it also needs cleaning and checking of the tantalum caps:


Oh, by the way: The battery cell on this board shows >3.2V and seems to be fairly "fresh".

The main input amplifier board A5 looks good so far:


But the input amplifier board A4 shows that it needs repair: several caps are bad, one is even corroded off the board on one side!


Interestingly this 438A basically works: Before I inspected the inside I did a quick test with an 8481 Sensor (-30dBm to +20dBm): Entering and saving of the cal factor as well as zeroing and calibrating worked fine.
I wonder how that is possible with that number of bad caps on the input amplifiers.  :-//
Anyway, I am happy that nothing blew up when I powered it up. Should have inspected the inside first.   :palm:

Cleaning on either the outside and the inside and replacing the bad parts will give me a fully functioning dual port power meter, I think.   :)

That's awesome! I would like to get a 438. I did find a 436A at the same auction I scored my Tek 7104 at. I currently only have an 8484A sensor though. It's super sensitive though, with a measurement range from 0.1 nW to 10 uW, 10 MHz-18 GHz.  :-+
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #41962 on: October 31, 2019, 02:07:15 am »
And now for something completely... ON TOPIC!!!



So today I went thrifting for a computer desk... which I did manage pretty well. But it came with this strange black & brown growth; I tried to shake it off (honest I did!  ;) ) however in the end I was forced to bring it home too.  :-DD



Once I managed to pry it loose from my cold dead fingers the surface of the desk, a closer inspection revealed it is a Canadian manufacture Simpson 635 20K/VDC-3K/VAC model with the original 2-ply leather handle mostly intact aside from a pretty grievous rip about 1/2 way through. The meter movement appears nice & limber.

I’ll look into it further after I finish setting up my PC; once I find a long thin Fillister screwdriver to undo the 3 remaining screws I’ll try and get some pics of the inside for y’all.  :-+

This moment of weakness cost me the princely sum of CAD$13.55 tax included; less than the Philly Cheese Steak from Wimpy’s I had for lunch.  Both together cost less than the desk at CAD$33.89 all up. :-+

Cheers,

mnem
*sent by threatening an iPad with further modifications*
« Last Edit: October 31, 2019, 02:16:23 am by mnementh »
alt-codes work here:  alt-0128 = €  alt-156 = £  alt-0216 = Ø  alt-225 = ß  alt-230 = µ  alt-234 = Ω  alt-236 = ∞  alt-248 = °
 
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Offline BravoV

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #41963 on: October 31, 2019, 02:26:59 am »
Once I managed to pry it loose from my cold dead fingers the surface of the desk, a closer inspection revealed it is a Canadian manufacture Simpson 635 20K/VDC-3K/VAC model with the original 2-ply leather handle mostly intact aside from a pretty grievous rip about 1/2 way through. The meter movement appears nice & limber.

Wow ... envy you, I always have a soft spot for moving coil meter, even I don't need it.  :palm:

Btw, what is the "SHIELDED MOVEMENT" means ?
 
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Offline Neomys Sapiens

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #41964 on: October 31, 2019, 02:36:08 am »
Once I managed to pry it loose from my cold dead fingers the surface of the desk, a closer inspection revealed it is a Canadian manufacture Simpson 635 20K/VDC-3K/VAC model with the original 2-ply leather handle mostly intact aside from a pretty grievous rip about 1/2 way through. The meter movement appears nice & limber.

Wow ... envy you, I always have a soft spot for moving coil meter, even I don't need it.  :palm:

Btw, what is the "SHIELDED MOVEMENT" means ?
That there is a magnetic shield around the coil and the yoke, which serves to reduce the errors caused by external magnetic fields.
 
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Offline BravoV

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #41965 on: October 31, 2019, 02:44:40 am »
Once I managed to pry it loose from my cold dead fingers the surface of the desk, a closer inspection revealed it is a Canadian manufacture Simpson 635 20K/VDC-3K/VAC model with the original 2-ply leather handle mostly intact aside from a pretty grievous rip about 1/2 way through. The meter movement appears nice & limber.

Wow ... envy you, I always have a soft spot for moving coil meter, even I don't need it.  :palm:

Btw, what is the "SHIELDED MOVEMENT" means ?
That there is a magnetic shield around the coil and the yoke, which serves to reduce the errors caused by external magnetic fields.

Thanks, never realized about this matter, makes we curious how much error will be induced by a magnetized screw driver placed close to the meter, taking note for short experiment if I had a chance.  :P

Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #41966 on: October 31, 2019, 02:59:17 am »
Once I managed to pry it loose from my cold dead fingers the surface of the desk, a closer inspection revealed it is a Canadian manufacture Simpson 635 20K/VDC-3K/VAC model with the original 2-ply leather handle mostly intact aside from a pretty grievous rip about 1/2 way through. The meter movement appears nice & limber.

Wow ... envy you, I always have a soft spot for moving coil meter, even I don't need it.  :palm:

Btw, what is the "SHIELDED MOVEMENT" means ?
That there is a magnetic shield around the coil and the yoke, which serves to reduce the errors caused by external magnetic fields.

Thanks, never realized about this matter, makes we curious how much error will be induced by a magnetized screw driver placed close to the meter, taking note for short experiment if I had a chance.  :P

I'll bet even the earth's magnetic field could have an effect if it weren't for the shield. (That's one reason why CRT scopes have a trace rotation)
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Offline mansaxel

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #41967 on: October 31, 2019, 03:10:37 am »
And now for something completely... ON TOPIC!!!

.... a Canadian manufacture Simpson 635 20K/VDC-3K/VAC model ....

....The meter movement appears nice & limber.


Nice! 

My collection has a UK military Avometer 8 (with tropicalisation for use in the Colonies and extra metal case around the Bakelite, good for shielding and squaddie protection), and a Hartmann & Braun Elavi, but is missing a Simpson. I actually use them, mostly for current. Having a 5KV range of course is potentially (pun intended!) useful, even if it requires a very careful setup and hard thinking about Consequences.

Their limitations as to AC frequency and the loading of DUT inherent in a passive design makes one appreciate the more modern meters in the collection, like the 1968 Marconi VTVM and the 427A so much more ;-). Then, of course, if the passive volt meter says there are so and so many volts, we can be fairly certain we're not measuring ripple through a triac or a high-impedance sense circuit, but actual ommph that won't sag. That is a good indication in itself, especially if compared to what a more sensitive meter indicates.

Once I get hold of some voltage and resistance standards that are more standards than "standards" (for sensible values of) I'll go through and get a better picture of their inaccuracies.

Offline worsthorse

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #41968 on: October 31, 2019, 04:28:31 am »
The option 09 card for the 8840A showed up today (did a WTB on one of the TE lists). Plugged it in, turned the DMM on, ran the self test, and joy! it passed. Then I tried to measure some AC volts. sadness, it failed. Wandered off to have a coffee. Halfway through the cup, I realized though I properly cabled the board, I forgot to connect a small jumper on the main PCB.  |O

Wandered back downstairs, added the jumper, turned it on and double joy!... it passed the self test and properly measured AC voltage up to 50KHz and 10V. 

My fifteen dollar 8840A is now a forty dollar 8840A with AC volts and current measurement.   :-DMM
Pah, miss out a day or two and wham, there are pages of catching up to do, this thread has a life of its own thats for sure.  :-DD

Jolly good news about the 8840A, that sure was a real bargain, you only paid IIRC 15$ for the pair? One of those 8840A goes for over £130 with the AC option, fully working so you really did get a bargain.  :-+

yes, really paid $15 for the pair. If I ever get my act together and learn how to sell on Ebay, I should make my investment back selling the leftover 8840A for parts.  :-+

no time for TE for the next four or five days. I am teaching a workshop this weekend and have a desk-bound to-do list that's a mile long to boot.  :--
specialization is for insects.
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #41969 on: October 31, 2019, 04:40:15 am »
Finally found a few minutes and some bench space to have a look at the newly arrived Fluke 725 Calibrator. Batteries fitted were kaput as the unit pulls between 80-100mA in use. New set of good quality NiMh ordered not Generic 'heavy duty' dry cells.

Display as shown when I got it but it works on the ranges tested so far and post 5 minute tear down and re seating of the LCD nothing changed  :-// The fours small clips on such a large LCD and the PCB with only three screws is likely to blame so I will have a proper play later. So a win sort of ..... but with some crappy mechanical non design elements.

33 Degrees and climbing so I declare it Beer O'Clock  :popcorn:
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Offline URI

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #41970 on: October 31, 2019, 08:15:51 am »
Another TEA (Test Equipment Arrival  :)):

My new dual input power meter arrived safe and sound!
As I wrote some weeks ago I just bought a HP 438A power meter "for parts" for less then $70 delivered.
[..]

That's awesome! I would like to get a 438. I did find a 436A at the same auction I scored my Tek 7104 at. I currently only have an 8484A sensor though. It's super sensitive though, with a measurement range from 0.1 nW to 10 uW, 10 MHz-18 GHz.  :-+

Have you checked ebay? The lowest offer starts at $40 and the next one up is $45 with "Best Offer" active...
With shipping within the US it might even be less than I paid for mine.
I made good experience with user "alltest_surplus", for example, they offer the $45 unit (I don't have any connection to them despite being a satisfied customer -I wish the shipping rates and customs for TE from the US weren't that painfully high..).
A life without TEA is possible but pointless.
 

Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #41971 on: October 31, 2019, 08:23:48 am »
Another TEA (Test Equipment Arrival  :)):

My new dual input power meter arrived safe and sound!
As I wrote some weeks ago I just bought a HP 438A power meter "for parts" for less then $70 delivered.
[..]

That's awesome! I would like to get a 438. I did find a 436A at the same auction I scored my Tek 7104 at. I currently only have an 8484A sensor though. It's super sensitive though, with a measurement range from 0.1 nW to 10 uW, 10 MHz-18 GHz.  :-+

Have you checked ebay? The lowest offer starts at $40 and the next one up is $45 with "Best Offer" active...
With shipping within the US it might even be less than I paid for mine.
I made good experience with user "alltest_surplus", for example, they offer the $45 unit (I don't have any connection to them despite being a satisfied customer -I wish the shipping rates and customs for TE from the US weren't that painfully high..).

I have also purchased from alltest surplus several times. The recent Fluke 8800A came from them. Reasonable prices and shipping usually cheap (about $13 USD) but that's because they are in NJ and I'm in NY. But I must say that their packaging is second to none. It could survive a nuclear blast.  :-+
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Offline URI

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #41972 on: October 31, 2019, 08:28:44 am »
My collection has a UK military Avometer 8 (with tropicalisation for use in the Colonies and extra metal case around the Bakelite, good for shielding and squaddie protection), and a Hartmann & Braun Elavi, but is missing a Simpson. I actually use them, mostly for current. Having a 5KV range of course is potentially (pun intended!) useful, even if it requires a very careful setup and hard thinking about Consequences.

Their limitations as to AC frequency and the loading of DUT inherent in a passive design makes one appreciate the more modern meters in the collection, like the 1968 Marconi VTVM and the 427A so much more ;-). Then, of course, if the passive volt meter says there are so and so many volts, we can be fairly certain we're not measuring ripple through a triac or a high-impedance sense circuit, but actual ommph that won't sag. That is a good indication in itself, especially if compared to what a more sensitive meter indicates.

As you say: the right tool for the right job.
Meters with mechanical movement have some properties that can be a no-go or limitation or can be a welcomed property:
You already gave the example of a limited input impedance for electromechanical voltmeters.

Another example are moving iron movements, those measure rms-values based on their principle of construction.
I do have some for measuring current despite having high resolution electronic ones like the HP/Agilent 34401, because quick changes are better visible; If you use them with external sensing (four-wire-mode on the supply side) you can get rid of their impedance mostly.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2019, 08:30:49 am by URI »
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #41973 on: October 31, 2019, 09:19:13 am »
So, I bought a cheap Chinese NanoVNA. Fingers crossed! Worst case it’ll give me something to fix!
 

Offline med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #41974 on: October 31, 2019, 10:06:24 am »
Or set fire to.  >:D :-DD
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