Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Martin.M]

hm.. 

[beanflying]

hm.. 

Fancy 

[mnementh]

Exactly. I’m now printing a swearing octopus.   

Fuck you very much!!! 

Exactly. I’m now printing a swearing octopus.   

Wondered how long before you got to that one ! 

Truth be known printing a few of them to place in all MY precious places is the only reason I’d buy a 3dp.

So... Fuck you all over the place...?   

Although it definitely would be cool to play with. 

Isn't that the exact reason for most of the stuff you have?

Exactly, which is the very reason why, for now, I'm resisting in buying one. 

DO IT!!! DoItDoItDoItDoItDoIt!!! 

mnem
”Yesssssss!!!”

[Specmaster]

quick sanity check. Any complaints?

AMD Ryzen 5 2600X cpu
Asrock B450M pro 4 board
Crucial 2x8Gb DDR2400 Ballistix LT memory
512Gb Samsung 970 pro nVME SSD
Radeon RX 550 graphics card
Cooler master Silenco S400 case
Be quiet pure power 11 600W
iiyama GE2288HS monitor

(monitor size is limited by available desk/bench space otherwise I'd hit a 24")

This is in the living room so I'm going for mid-range quietness over screaming FPS rig.

Edit: also some compromises so I can get it from the same crap shifter (Aria.co.uk)

Other than the capitalisation it all looks sane enough. You could expand the SSD with a slightly slower model as you wouldn't notice the speed difference but you'd lose the MLC NAND. It's up to you what you value more.

2 items I'd personally change are the MB and the case, I'd not look at anything less then a full ATX MB and a suitable case to accept the bigger MB, the reason is more future proof with greater expansion capability and I add in a conventional HDD for storage of data and programs that are not used that often. SSD's are fine but they do have a finite read / write live and when they fail, they can do so without warning. I keep my O/S on my SSD and commonly used programs that I have the original discs for. Programs that I have to download I tend to store those on the HDD's which are longer lasting and being a cheapskate, are available free from people who advertise advertise their old Sky Plus or Virgin Tivo TV boxes on the free cycle web sites when they have been upgraded to bigger and better systems by Sky or Virgin.

[Mr. Scram]

Any type of hard drive can and will fail without warning. SSDs are in theory more reliable than spinning discs but in practice about as reliable. Expect them to fail and prepare accordingly.

[bd139]

SSD lifespan is insanely long. Buy larger drives, turn off swap, enable overprovisioning and you're looking at a couple of hundred years normal use, a couple of decades of very heavy use and 3 years in a database server which is hammered 24/7. When they do go "fum!" they don't go suddenly - they stop being writeable. That's still better than all rusty bastards. ReEmember the clunk of death anyone? The only downside is £/Gb.

Disagree on full ATX + board. There's enough expansion in that case to cope with future demands without taking too much room. It'll take a better graphics card, 2x as much RAM, another NVMEe SSD, a DVD drive (if I ever need one). If the thing gets hot the case fans can be rejigged enough. Only downside is the PSU blows onto the floor so I may have to raise it a bit. 3DP to the rescue! 

Anyway I'm off out to be sociable and stuff for the evening, a rarity these days!

@mnem: Luci gif added to the gif bank 

[Mr. Scram]

SSD lifespan is insanely long. Buy larger drives, turn off swap, enable overprovisioning and you're looking at a couple of hundred years normal use, a couple of decades of very heavy use and 3 years in a database server which is hammered 24/7. When they do go "fum!" they don't go suddenly - they stop being writeable. That's still better than all rusty bastards. ReEmember the clunk of death anyone? The only downside is £/Gb.

Disagree on full ATX + board. There's enough expansion in that case to cope with future demands without taking too much room. It'll take a better graphics card, 2x as much RAM, another NVMEe SSD, a DVD drive (if I ever need one). If the thing gets hot the case fans can be rejigged enough. Only downside is the PSU blows onto the floor so I may have to raise it a bit. 3DP to the rescue! 

Anyway I'm off out to be sociable and stuff for the evening, a rarity these days!

@mnem: Luci gif added to the gif bank 

Peeping at people from the bushes is not being sociable. We've been over this!

[bd139]

Hahahaha 

Right gone ...

[mnementh]

Exactly. I’m now printing a swearing octopus.   

Once the initial excitement dies down, all of these little bits that you're producing will all find their way into the trash bin before too much time has gone by I expect 

I needed another to send to a 'special' person 

The brought one to print trinkets makes for dust collectors for me it is incorporated into projects for me and one offs for $ where appropriate. In jobs for $ alone my printers are most likely paid for against the time it would have taken me to make or have parts made.

These tools for stripping down and repairing Espresso machines run to several hundred $ as an example. Yep the real deal is Aluminium but the PLA ones are holding up fine and if I break one $5-6 to make another. The long bar is a spring compressor for an 8mm wire diameter spring needing well over 50kg to compress. Getting them made in a shop would have sent me broke and being able to tweak them for a different machine if needed suits me well.

It is far from a prefect solution for all cases but far better for far less $ for most small/home options.

Yeah; that’s the thing that has changed in just the last few years: It used to be a twofold hurdle; first getting the hardware sorted so it actually produces something... ANYTHING marginally close to the expected results. THEN you had to CHOOSE from a sea of competitors and then LEARN two bits of software: the 3D modeling software and the software to turn that into gcode for the printer.

THAT was the “cost of entry” into hobbyist-grade FDM that literally beat most users (except for those who could just throw money at the problem & get a DaVinci, etc) into a juddering mass of jelly.

Now, the sea of competitors has been boiled down to a few in each category and the hardware now pretty much comes pre-assembled and 98% of the mechanical problems already sorted out of the box. 

What this means to the average person is that once they get a handle on some generally easy-to-use and functionally free 3D modeling software *coughF360cough* and similarly easy-to-use and functionally free slicing software *coughCURAcough* that usually works just by selecting a profile from a drop-down menu, they can have the same OOB Experience that bd & I had and that Microsoft WISHES their OOBE provided. 

The really cool part of it is the fact that when you get over this now pretty shallow learning curve, you soon find new ways all around you that the convenience of the machine can actually HELP YOU live your life.

Need a custom-sized widget to prop up the back of your stereo? 15 minutes of drawing on the PC and it’s printing. Need a handle with a lip to act as a latch for the gadget you just borked? Another 20 minutes and it’s on its way.

THAT is how this technology really IS like a Star Trek replicator. Once you master it, you start THINKING DIFFERENTLY about problem solving in every aspect of your life.

What’s really cool is getting to see how this technology is evolving at a breakneck pace; 3DP confections and mold-making are now commonplace, and I was just reading about how they are now able to... VERY CRUDELY, but still able to... print living tissue to act as skin grafts and “tissue patches” for surgery...

mnem
 

[Specmaster]

I've already had one SSD fail, just out of warranty too the bastard, but I've found the modern SATA HDD's to be very reliable with the aid of a hot swap bay, become a very effective way of storing vast amounts of data such as programs, service manuals etc and with the vast numbers of these drives going to landfill, at zero cost as well  .

My case has the ability of accepting upto 4 SSD's, 8 HDD's in internal bays 3 5.25" drive bays, 2 x rewritable DVD drives and 1 hot swappable HDD and SSD bays so in total I could add 5 SSD's and 9 HDD's of course I'd have to extra internal interfaces for the SATA drives, but I also have the spare expansion slots in the case to plug these into if required.

One thing I have learned from being around proper PC's for all these years, is that it always pays to allow plenty of extras to added into the case and the MB as should your needs change, its just a matter adding it rather than starting over again.

[Martin.M]

the Weston Oldie need 20°C to be zero...



 the Fluke goes up to 1200°C this is also enough for hot summer nights

[mnementh]

Capitalisation is the cut and paste showing through

I did think about cheaping it with a Samsung Evo. It'll do the job for a bit less wedge.

Have left 2 RAM slots free so I can up it to 32Gb later.

Apparently the Intel SSDs offer good bang for buck. Not the fastest drives out there but a lot cheaper for little practical difference. Do you see yourself rendering 3D graphics somewhere down the line? You may want to opt for more cores if you do.

They suck balls; SOOO slow compared to Samsung nvme. There’s a reason they’re so cheap; nobody wants them.

Go 1TB Samsung 970EVO nvme as minimum; The difference between the Pro & the EVO is mostly warranty & overprovisioning in the FW, not the HW itself. 512GB is enough for a gaming rig; anything workstation or daily driver will fill that up in no time, so spend the extra $50 for the 1TB.

Or, shop around for generics that use the Phison E12 chipset; the Inland ones I’m using on my gaming rig are terrifying in terms of performance to $ ratio. I can easily afford to replace them BOTH TWICE for what one 1GB 790Pro costs! And if you look at the lifetime rating, they’re right up there with the Samsung, as they’re pretty much a shameless direct clone hardware-wise.

See my build list linked below, only sub your preferred $$$-friendly CPU & X470MB.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-computing/an-experiement-latest-ryzen-3700xx570-mb-and-cheap-nvme-ssds/msg2605290/#msg2605290

Also, no matter WHAT “great deals” you may see on video cards, even the RX580: DO NOT BUY LESS THAN 8GB!!!

EVERYTHING (even Winblows) is fast-moving to page formats optimized for larger video memory; 8GB on the GPU is going to be the “bare minimum entry-level” in a year or two as 1440P/120Hz becomes the equivalent of VGA as a minimum standard even for laptops.

Lastly... look carefully at the physical configuration of my rig. AIO liquid-coolers and top-rad are also becoming the standard for even basic workstations. I’d recommend a 120mm x240mm from a name-brand like Corsair, CoolerMaster or Thermaltake as opposed to the $60 cheapie I bought just to see how bad it could be. (Surprisingly NOT, BTW)

This config allows a straight-thru wind-tunnel airflow that is CRITICAL to keeping modern air-cooled GPUs running cool and not under-clocking due to temp. Think “pressurized-case”; the intent being to have lots of large slow fans to move large volumes of air quietly.

mnem
*hiding out from the suck*

[Mr. Scram]

They suck balls; SOOO slow compared to Samsung nvme. There’s a reason they’re so cheap; nobody wants them.

Go 1TB Samsung 970EVO nvme as minimum; The difference between the Pro & the EVO is mostly warranty & overprovisioning in the FW, not the HW itself. 512GB is enough for a gaming rig; anything workstation or daily driver will fill that up in no time, so spend the extra $50 for the 1TB.

Or, shop around for generics that use the Phison E12 chipset; the Inland ones I’m using on my gaming rig are terrifying in terms of performance to $ ratio. I can easily afford to replace them BOTH TWICE for what one 1GB 790Pro costs! And if you look at the lifetime rating, they’re right up there with the Samsung, as they’re pretty much a shameless direct clone hardware-wise.

See my build list linked below, only sub your preferred $$$-friendly CPU & X470MB.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-computing/an-experiement-latest-ryzen-3700xx570-mb-and-cheap-nvme-ssds/msg2605290/#msg2605290

Also, no matter WHAT “great deals” you may see on video cards, even the RX580: DO NOT BUY LESS THAN 8GB!!!

EVERYTHING (even Winblows) is fast-moving to page formats optimized for larger video memory; 8GB on the GPU is going to be the “bare minimum entry-level” in a year or two as 1440P/120Hz becomes the equivalent of VGA as a minimum standard even for laptops.

Lastly... look carefully at the physical configuration of my rig. AIO liquid-coolers and top-rad are also becoming the standard for even basic workstations. I’d recommend a 120mm x240mm from a name-brand like Corsair, CoolerMaster or Thermaltake as opposed to the $60 cheapie I bought just to see how bad it could be. (Surprisingly NOT, BTW)

This config allows a straight-thru wind-tunnel airflow that is CRITICAL to keeping modern air-cooled GPUs running cool and not under-clocking due to temp. Think “pressurized-case”; the intent being to have lots of large slow fans to move large volumes of air quietly.

mnem
*hiding out from the suck*

We discussed this before, I think? The practical real life impact of the bandwidth difference is negligible. When the difference between SATA and NVMe isn't discernible the difference between NVMe and faster NVMe definitely isn't regardless of benchmarks that make your peener bigger.

[mnementh]

It's all becoming very clear to me. In addition to the 3d printer I would need to buy/build a top tier PC in order to run a decent CAD program (more expense) and be stuck in that ever lasting loop of "More Power Scotty!!" just like a gamer?

And there you go. Bd just dropped 750 either pounds or dollars (don't matter which, it's a lot!  ) That's not a rabbit hole.....it's a giant sinkhole. 

Utter nonsense. He’s buying a civilized machine because he just realized that he’s sick & tired of porking a potato when it comes to his computer time. 3DP and modern CAD software was just the GLARINGLY OBVIOUS PROOF he’d been porking a potato for so long. 

The world has moved on without you (just like me and my decade-old 1055T just a few short months ago) and the definition of “entry-level” has evolved quietly and hugely over the last few years... step into the 20th century while we’re still in the 21st.

mnem
*borked*

[med6753]

It's all becoming very clear to me. In addition to the 3d printer I would need to buy/build a top tier PC in order to run a decent CAD program (more expense) and be stuck in that ever lasting loop of "More Power Scotty!!" just like a gamer?

And there you go. Bd just dropped 750 either pounds or dollars (don't matter which, it's a lot!  ) That's not a rabbit hole.....it's a giant sinkhole. 

Utter nonsense. He’s buying a civilized machine because he just realized that he’s sick & tired of porking a potato when it comes to his computer time. 3DP and modern CAD software was just the GLARINGLY OBVIOUS PROOF he’d been porking a potato for so long. 

The world has moved on without you (just like me and my decade-old 1055T just a few short months ago) and the definition of “entry-level” has evolved quietly and hugely over the last few years... step into the 20th century while we’re still in the 21st.

mnem
*borked*

Bork you and the potato you rode in on.  I'm very happy in 1990's. 

[mnementh]

We discussed this before, I think? The practical real life impact of the bandwidth difference is negligible. When the difference between SATA and NVMe isn't discernible the difference between NVMe and faster NVMe definitely isn't regardless of benchmarks that make your peener bigger.

WARNING!!! BLUNT TALK AHEAD!!!

No, you pontificated from a place of ignorance while I systematically deconstructed why you were wrong, and then you continued to ignore the clear and obvious proof that you were wrong, repeating the same ignorant BS in different words over and over again, because you refuse to see beyond last year’s technology when next year’s is already in production.

I refuse to engage in ANOTHER such battle of willful ignorance in my place of refuge.

In short, pound off.

mnem
*no mood to suffer fools*

[bd139]

On the PC front two frustrations:

1. My T470 keyboard packed in this morning (argh)
2. My m5.2xlarge in AWS I use as a desktop suffered an insurance failure

Need more juice and easier to fix stuff.

[med6753]

That space in the far right corner above the printer.....



Poorly utilized and I need space.



Solution. It just needs sanding, a coat of stain, then 2 coats of poly. I even have a 3rd shelf cut and ready to install a few inches from the top if I decide to put it on.



Try THAT will your fancy pants 3d printer. 

[mnementh]

Yawwwwn... Appropriate technology, etc. yadda, yadda, yadda...

Besides... I love a little woodworkery. 

mnem
That’s not sawdust; it’s “man glitter”.

[med6753]

We discussed this before, I think? The practical real life impact of the bandwidth difference is negligible. When the difference between SATA and NVMe isn't discernible the difference between NVMe and faster NVMe definitely isn't regardless of benchmarks that make your peener bigger.

WARNING!!! BLUNT TALK AHEAD!!!

No, you pontificated from a place of ignorance while I systematically deconstructed why you were wrong, and then you continued to ignore the clear and obvious proof that you were wrong, repeating the same ignorant BS in different words over and over again, because you refuse to see beyond last year’s technology when next year’s is already in production.

I refuse to engage in ANOTHER such battle of willful ignorance in my place of refuge.

In short, pound off.

mnem
*no mood to suffer fools*

You kill me. 

[Martin.M]

you do too much theraphy here,
there is allover space without test gears..

some years ago my wife shouts me about a tube Tek in the clothes cabinet (but it was a half year there before she found it)

[med6753]

you do too much theraphy here,
there is allover space without test gears..

Martin.....it's because we all NEED therapy. 

Edit....and one of my closets is ALL TEA. 

[Martin.M]

 

[Martin.M]

the battery is only 57 years old, of coarse that is full in spec 

[mnementh]

You kill me. 

Time will bear out my POV. I faced just such pedantic arguments when I said I was building 64-bit/16GB RAM; people pointed out what a Charlie-Foxtrot XP/64 was, and why on earth could I possibly ever need 16GB on a PERSONAL computer, when Gates himself was (mis)quoted as saying “640K ought to be enough for anybody”.

I have a knack for seeing the transformational aspect and buying into emergent tech just a little bit before it hits its stride... cellular, GUIs, portable then laptop then tablet PCs, smartphones, 64-bit OS, FPV/AP drones... the list goes on. If I’d ever had the money to invest at the time, I’d be a billionaire by now.

mnem