Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mnementh]

Sorry, but that's incorrect. It was President Reagan who said that with respect to his talks with the Russians.

Not to argue but Wikipedia lists it as a Russian proverb used by Reagan.

I doubt that is a Russian proverb of any sort; the feel of it is entirely too optimistic.    You know Wikipedia... any asshole can put any old asshole thing up there, and unless someone who knows better finds it and can be arsed to fix it, it'll stay that way 'til doomsday. 

mnem
"Life is hard; fortunately, it is also short." ~казаки proverb

[Mr. Scram]

Not to argue but Wikipedia lists it as a Russian proverb used by Reagan.

Apparently the original “Trust is good, control is better” is by Lenin, although it's very possible he borrowed the proverb. I suspect much of the great things people in those times said have been inspired by less well known people and were popularized by key figures who had the exposure to do so.

[mnementh]

Speaking of which: https://www.ebay.com/itm/273769246076

Somebody give it some love, ehh? Y'all know these are tinkerdwagon-proof... it's 11th hour time; literally. 

mnem

It's beat to shit and the bezel around the CRT is broken. No thanks. 

  If you know anything about these, you know that's endemic to the breed.  The plastic gets pretty delicate as it ages; finding one in that condition is better than average. The scope underneath is close to grenade-proof; they just run and run and run... I really need to fire up the old Fusion and print something for mine. 

mnem
 Not Pretty ≠

[mnementh]

Not to argue but Wikipedia lists it as a Russian proverb used by Reagan.

Apparently the original “Trust is good, control is better” is by Lenin, although it's very possible he borrowed the proverb. I suspect much of the great things people in those times said have been inspired by less well known people and were popularized by key figures who had the exposure to do so.

"Plagiarism is the lifeblood of politics." ~me

mnem
"Don't bring reality into this." ~ 7th tenet of Political Discourse.

[bd139]

Did some transplant work on the first GDO today. The original variable capacitor in it was fucked to be honest. I notice it was jamming, so removed it to clean it and found there was oil all over the bottom of it. Reduction drive had probably seized so some numpty used machine oil in it. Cleaned it all out and put a capacitor out of one of the spare ones in it and sorted. I will refurb the capacitor.

So do you think this is enough GDOs? 

Think I can get another restored one out of this lot. Two are quite heavily buggered.

[0culus]

So I downloaded LTspice last night. Had never used it before, but it seems very easy to pick up, and it's going to be super useful for simulating circuits as I work through AoE, though I do want to build at least some of the more interesting ones.

[Mr. Scram]

So I downloaded LTspice last night. Had never used it before, but it seems very easy to pick up, and it's going to be super useful for simulating circuits as I work through AoE, though I do want to build at least some of the more interesting ones.

As long as you're aware in what ways a simulation doesn't always match reality. Oscillation would be one thing.

[0culus]

So I downloaded LTspice last night. Had never used it before, but it seems very easy to pick up, and it's going to be super useful for simulating circuits as I work through AoE, though I do want to build at least some of the more interesting ones.

As long as you're aware in what ways a simulation doesn't always match reality. Oscillation would be one thing.

Of course, it's a simulation. 

[bd139]

It's pretty close to reality though.  Make sure you finger component tolerances into your designs and add stray capacitors and inductors and it's extremely accurate. Oscillation is usually kicked off by setting startup voltage to zero in LTspice. Haven't had any problems there.

[worsthorse]

 

mnem
 Not Pretty ≠

WRT oscilloscopes and the "what test equipment got you going" thread... for me, a 531A that I got to use in my votech electronics class. I remember it so fondly that the first piece of non-essential (non-essential is not a word in the TEA vocab, I know.  ) test gear I acquired was, yes, a 531A. This affirms that:

Nostalgia is a leading cause of TEAS (Test Equipment Acquisition Syndrome).

I don't know whether to save that ebay scope from the dump or buy one of the HP or Tek scopes that are down in Corvallis. So far I have resisted the siren call of "hey there, buy me, i'm cheap."  But I am weakening.

In other news, the 2215 I got for shipping costs is in a sad sad state. Most of the knobs have been pried off, and the vertical attenuator assembly is missing. This looks like a parts mule. Of course, I don't own a working 2215 but I am sure I will address that shortcoming in due course. 

And while we are talking about oscilloscopes.  I fired up the 2465. Checks out well except for the fan, which sounds like it is on its last legs. Is that a thing with these scopes? 

[Neomys Sapiens]

So I downloaded LTspice last night. Had never used it before, but it seems very easy to pick up, and it's going to be super useful for simulating circuits as I work through AoE, though I do want to build at least some of the more interesting ones.

I have made the experience that it is also an extremely useful tool in diagnostic and repair applications.
When I encounter circuit diagrams which do not have any measurements annotated, I often set up a partial circuit in LTspice just to get an idea what SHOULD be there.
Did this first on a power supply where the OVP circuit was either unusual or just shown in a way particularely unhelpful to comprehension and was instantly rewarded by a completed repair.
We developed this further at my place of work, where some legacy equipment keeps coming in of which neither I nor my repair technician have any knowledge and no description exists beyond the circuit diagram.

[med6753]

And while we are talking about oscilloscopes.  I fired up the 2465. Checks out well except for the fan, which sounds like it is on its last legs. Is that a thing with these scopes?

Yes, definitely. Known issue with those Seimens fan motors. Go here....

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-2465b-oscilloscope-teardown/msg1861713/#msg1861713

Then keep going to mnem's excellent complete teardown. I was able to fix the fan in that 2465 DMS with a few drops of synthetic oil.

[mnementh]

 

mnem
 Not Pretty ≠

WRT oscilloscopes and the "what test equipment got you going" thread... for me, a 531A that I got to use in my votech electronics class. I remember it so fondly that the first piece of non-essential (non-essential is not a word in the TEA vocab, I know.  ) test gear I acquired was, yes, a 531A. This affirms that:

Nostalgia is a leading cause of TEAS (Test Equipment Acquisition Syndrome).

I don't know whether to save that ebay scope from the dump or buy one of the HP or Tek scopes that are down in Corvallis. So far I have resisted the siren call of "hey there, buy me, i'm cheap."  But I am weakening.

In other news, the 2215 I got for shipping costs is in a sad sad state. Most of the knobs have been pried off, and the vertical attenuator assembly is missing. This looks like a parts mule. Of course, I don't own a working 2215 but I am sure I will address that shortcoming in due course. 

And while we are talking about oscilloscopes.  I fired up the 2465. Checks out well except for the fan, which sounds like it is on its last legs. Is that a thing with these scopes?

Yup; definitely a "Thing" with these scopes. Here's my solution; a little less draconian than med's "hack & slash" muffin-fan "upgrade".

Agreed 100% on the Nostagia/TEAS relationship.

mnem
*Round & round*

[med6753]

As you recall yesterday I had pulled the Vertical board out of a 465 parts mule. Today I'll explain why.

This is the 465B with the bad Channel 2 attenuator deck. The attenuator assembly has been pulled out. Unlike the 465 the 465B has the Vertical board and the attenuator assembly as separate units. So I was able to more of less leave the Vertical board in place and pull the attenuator deck.



Here's the attenuator deck ready for disassembly. And to the right is the reason for pulling the 465 mule apart. That's one of it's attenuator decks.  Those white pieces that hold the gray deck together have steel inserts. That's what is stripped on the 465B channel 2. Those pieces are identical in the 465 and 465B. So I'm going to disassemble and replace the stripped parts. Hopefully this fixes channel 2 once and for all. Wish me luck.

[med6753]

And while we are talking about oscilloscopes.  I fired up the 2465. Checks out well except for the fan, which sounds like it is on its last legs. Is that a thing with these scopes?

Yup; definitely a "Thing" with these scopes. Here's my solution; a little less draconian than med's "hack & slash" muffin-fan "upgrade".



mnem
*Round & round*

Yep, as mentioned with the 2465 DMS I was able to quiet the Seimens fan with some oil. But I was not so successful with my other 2465 so I ripped it out and bodged in an 80 x 80 fan. Looks ugly and not one of my better mods but it works...and works well. And just so mnem can puke all over again I present this ugly pix. 

   

[mnementh]

As you recall yesterday I had pulled the Vertical board out of a 465 parts mule. Today I'll explain why.
(SNIP)
Here's the attenuator deck ready for disassembly. And to the right is the reason for pulling the 465 mule apart. That's one of it's attenuator decks.  Those white pieces that hold the gray deck together have steel inserts. That's what is stripped on the 465B channel 2. Those pieces are identical in the 465 and 465B. So I'm going to disassemble and replace the stripped parts. Hopefully this fixes channel 2 once and for all. Wish me luck.

Okaaaay... so maybe it IS rocket surgery...?   

mnem
*Wishing you luck*

[bitseeker]

Nostalgia is a leading cause of TEAS (Test Equipment Acquisition Syndrome).

Yep. Added TEAS to the Glossary since we didn't have that variation.

[tggzzz]

As you recall yesterday I had pulled the Vertical board out of a 465 parts mule. Today I'll explain why.

This is the 465B with the bad Channel 2 attenuator deck. The attenuator assembly has been pulled out. Unlike the 465 the 465B has the Vertical board and the attenuator assembly as separate units. So I was able to more of less leave the Vertical board in place and pull the attenuator deck.

Here's the attenuator deck ready for disassembly. And to the right is the reason for pulling the 465 mule apart. That's one of it's attenuator decks.  Those white pieces that hold the gray deck together have steel inserts. That's what is stripped on the 465B channel 2. Those pieces are identical in the 465 and 465B. So I'm going to disassemble and replace the stripped parts. Hopefully this fixes channel 2 once and for all. Wish me luck.

If I get my 465B's sweep working, and the trace centered, then I may need to do that - so please do let us know how it goes.

It may be worth putting it in a separate thread, so people other than us poor benighted denizens can benefit.

[0culus]

Another part of the dc-6GHz tracking generator I'm building showed up today. ADF4351 signal generator board. It's based around the Analog 4351 PLL synthesizer. My plan is to control it from an Arduino with a nice LCD shield. Someone has already coded up the Arduino stuff to make it run: http://f6kbf.free.fr/html/ADF4351%20and%20Arduino_Fr_Gb.htm

The only thing that needs to be added are a few voltage dividers to change the Arduino 5V logic to 3.3V for the ADF4351. Going to work with a friend who is a whiz at 3D printing to make an enclosure for all the components. 

[tggzzz]

So I downloaded LTspice last night. Had never used it before, but it seems very easy to pick up, and it's going to be super useful for simulating circuits as I work through AoE, though I do want to build at least some of the more interesting ones.

As long as you're aware in what ways a simulation doesn't always match reality. Oscillation would be one thing.

And many others...

For example:

From: Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu>
 Design of circuits using power MOSFETs is an
 important part of what we do.  It's a favorite
 topic, and we talked about it plenty in AoE 3rd.
 Our upcoming x-Chapter book, that's filled with
 advanced material, has about 130 pages on the
 subject.  See Dropbox for a mini-section draft
 about MOSFET SPICE models and capacitance.  It
 goes after a lengthy section discussing specific
 MOSFET part aspects, and implications. You could
 make a printout to better follow the details.
 
 https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9nhm5fxm8zwsei3/AAB0lYLZmwXkOl-FeG8fuDfea?dl=0

 Let me know what you think.
--
 Thanks,
    - Win

[beanflying]

Another part of the dc-6GHz tracking generator I'm building showed up today. ADF4351 signal generator board. It's based around the Analog 4351 PLL synthesizer. My plan is to control it from an Arduino with a nice LCD shield. Someone has already coded up the Arduino stuff to make it run: http://f6kbf.free.fr/html/ADF4351%20and%20Arduino_Fr_Gb.htm

The only thing that needs to be added are a few voltage dividers to change the Arduino 5V logic to 3.3V for the ADF4351. Going to work with a friend who is a whiz at 3D printing to make an enclosure for all the components. 

Looks nicely made. Just one question why not use a 3.3V logic Arduino instead of converting signals? Plenty of 3.3V Displays available too as most convert down from 5V.

Out of interest what is the external Oscillators frequency?

[0culus]

Another part of the dc-6GHz tracking generator I'm building showed up today. ADF4351 signal generator board. It's based around the Analog 4351 PLL synthesizer. My plan is to control it from an Arduino with a nice LCD shield. Someone has already coded up the Arduino stuff to make it run: http://f6kbf.free.fr/html/ADF4351%20and%20Arduino_Fr_Gb.htm

The only thing that needs to be added are a few voltage dividers to change the Arduino 5V logic to 3.3V for the ADF4351. Going to work with a friend who is a whiz at 3D printing to make an enclosure for all the components. 

Looks nicely made. Just one question why not use a 3.3V logic Arduino instead of converting signals? Plenty of 3.3V Displays available too as most convert down from 5V.

Out of interest what is the external Oscillators frequency?

I might use a different Arduino in a future revision. I already have a couple of Unos on the way though, so I'll just stick with them for now; it'll be easy enough to make the necessary voltage dividers.

Do you mean the frequency reference or the output? It has an onboard 25 MHz xtal oscillator, but can accept a wide range of external references up to 200 MHz or so. I'll be using it to generate a couple of different frequencies for the tracking generator board. For the 8566A, to sweep in the low band (0-2.5 GHz) it will provide a 3621.4 MHz signal. To sweep 2-5.8 GHz it will generate 321.4 MHz. For the 8568B, it will provide a 2050 MHz signal. Will need a few pads in the mix too, but the first objective is to get the ADF sig gen set up and working under Arduino control.

[beanflying]

Another part of the dc-6GHz tracking generator I'm building showed up today. ADF4351 signal generator board. It's based around the Analog 4351 PLL synthesizer. My plan is to control it from an Arduino with a nice LCD shield. Someone has already coded up the Arduino stuff to make it run: http://f6kbf.free.fr/html/ADF4351%20and%20Arduino_Fr_Gb.htm

The only thing that needs to be added are a few voltage dividers to change the Arduino 5V logic to 3.3V for the ADF4351. Going to work with a friend who is a whiz at 3D printing to make an enclosure for all the components. 

Looks nicely made. Just one question why not use a 3.3V logic Arduino instead of converting signals? Plenty of 3.3V Displays available too as most convert down from 5V.

Out of interest what is the external Oscillators frequency?

I might use a different Arduino in a future revision. I already have a couple of Unos on the way though, so I'll just stick with them for now; it'll be easy enough to make the necessary voltage dividers.

Do you mean the frequency reference or the output? It has an onboard 25 MHz xtal oscillator, but can accept a wide range of external references up to 200 MHz or so. I'll be using it to generate a couple of different frequencies for the tracking generator board. For the 8566A, to sweep in the low band (0-2.5 GHz) it will provide a 3621.4 MHz signal. To sweep 2-5.8 GHz it will generate 321.4 MHz. For the 8568B, it will provide a 2050 MHz signal. Will need a few pads in the mix too, but the first objective is to get the ADF sig gen set up and working under Arduino control.

Just interested to see if that board used a more normal 10MHz. My little ADF4350 box is running a 20MHz Oscillator. Generally it seems to be fairly accurate and stable but the Micro and software used is fairly limiting as it can't be swept. Can you post a link to the code/project? I might be tempted to hack the Chinese micro out of the way and drop an Arduino Nano in place on mine.

Rather than a divider the simple FET option works really well and will generally give a better result. https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/bi-directional-logic-level-converter-hookup-guide/all

[0culus]

Another part of the dc-6GHz tracking generator I'm building showed up today. ADF4351 signal generator board. It's based around the Analog 4351 PLL synthesizer. My plan is to control it from an Arduino with a nice LCD shield. Someone has already coded up the Arduino stuff to make it run: http://f6kbf.free.fr/html/ADF4351%20and%20Arduino_Fr_Gb.htm

The only thing that needs to be added are a few voltage dividers to change the Arduino 5V logic to 3.3V for the ADF4351. Going to work with a friend who is a whiz at 3D printing to make an enclosure for all the components. 

Looks nicely made. Just one question why not use a 3.3V logic Arduino instead of converting signals? Plenty of 3.3V Displays available too as most convert down from 5V.

Out of interest what is the external Oscillators frequency?

I might use a different Arduino in a future revision. I already have a couple of Unos on the way though, so I'll just stick with them for now; it'll be easy enough to make the necessary voltage dividers.

Do you mean the frequency reference or the output? It has an onboard 25 MHz xtal oscillator, but can accept a wide range of external references up to 200 MHz or so. I'll be using it to generate a couple of different frequencies for the tracking generator board. For the 8566A, to sweep in the low band (0-2.5 GHz) it will provide a 3621.4 MHz signal. To sweep 2-5.8 GHz it will generate 321.4 MHz. For the 8568B, it will provide a 2050 MHz signal. Will need a few pads in the mix too, but the first objective is to get the ADF sig gen set up and working under Arduino control.

Just interested to see if that board used a more normal 10MHz. My little ADF4350 box is running a 20MHz Oscillator. Generally it seems to be fairly accurate and stable but the Micro and software used is fairly limiting as it can't be swept. Can you post a link to the code/project? I might be tempted to hack the Chinese micro out of the way and drop an Arduino Nano in place on mine.

Rather than a divider the simple FET option works really well and will generally give a better result. https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/bi-directional-logic-level-converter-hookup-guide/all

I think it can take 10 MHz too, IIRC. I plan to try it anyway. Hmmm that's a neat little board. Thanks!

[beanflying]

I think it can take 10 MHz too, IIRC. I plan to try it anyway. Hmmm that's a neat little board. Thanks!

  The link was in the first post and quoted 

Link to my box and some pics/tests https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/adf4350-adf4351-based-oled-rf-source-generators/msg2107246/#msg2107246