Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[bd139]

I’ve been looking at this. I looked at the Peak ones to start with but you have to buy their LCR and separate ESR meter. Then DE5000 but you can’t import them sanely here.

[tggzzz]

Any excuse is good with me 

Just got outbid on another Heathkit VTVM 

Decided I needed some more tube / valve kit so have been trying to snag some Heathkit bits.

I have one of these (minus droppings), so I'm not interested
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-TEKTRONIX-TYPE-191-CONSTANT-AMPLITUDE-SIGNAL-GENERATOR/264253532210
They are fun, but do look at the signal and power connectors.

[bd139]

Yes that’s on the watch list. Connectors are excellent on them. Hermaphroditic. We had some on some kit back in the day. Inevitably if I won it I’d have to find an adapter

[0culus]

Any excuse is good with me 

Just got outbid on another Heathkit VTVM 

Decided I needed some more tube / valve kit so have been trying to snag some Heathkit bits.

I have one of these (minus droppings), so I'm not interested
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-TEKTRONIX-TYPE-191-CONSTANT-AMPLITUDE-SIGNAL-GENERATOR/264253532210
They are fun, but do look at the signal and power connectors.

I've never seen that connector. I have seen older Tek scopes that have UHF connectors for inputs, though.  That would drive me nuts...I know tons of radios have them, but I hate them and make a conscious effort to minimize them in my lab.

I’ve been looking at this. I looked at the Peak ones to start with but you have to buy their LCR and separate ESR meter. Then DE5000 but you can’t import them sanely here.

Hmmm, the DE5000 seems like a good price. Probably get what you pay for but it's probably better than no LCR meter...

[bd139]

UHF connectors are just the worst. It does my head in that I spent a ton of money on a radio and it’s got a fecking UHf connector on it.

I think the worst thing is the 75 ohm antenna connectors you see on cheap shit from the 50s-70s here.

[factory]

Yeah I've watched that all the way through. Really would love something like that TBH.

VOLTNUT ALERT! 3456A, Leeds, buyer collects. Too far for me to be arsed unfortunately.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133002295538

I guess you didn't read the description.   

"I can send this on your own risk for around £15"

David

[Neomys Sapiens]

What? That's GR-874! I got a few parts from Beanflying and with what was in stock, it is workable now.
Where it starts to become interesting, is GR-900!
The power connector seems to be a variant of the one already discussed for my Transistor Devices Dynaload.
I could send a GR catalogue with all the -874 parts, but I don't get it compressed below 7MB.
PM with Email if someone wants it.

[bd139]

Yeah I've watched that all the way through. Really would love something like that TBH.

VOLTNUT ALERT! 3456A, Leeds, buyer collects. Too far for me to be arsed unfortunately.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133002295538

I guess you didn't read the description.   

"I can send this on your own risk for around £15"

David

Yeah I saw that. When someone says that they're going to pack it in a carrier bag with tape round it and send it Hermes.

[bitseeker]

I’ve been looking at this. I looked at the Peak ones to start with but you have to buy their LCR and separate ESR meter. Then DE5000 but you can’t import them sanely here.

Hmmm, the DE5000 seems like a good price. Probably get what you pay for but it's probably better than no LCR meter...

DE5000 is good (I and many others have one). Keysight U1733 has a bit better specs, but is more expensive. Unless you have specific requirements that demand more, the DE5000 should serve you well. But check the other threads about it, too. If you do get it, don't put the battery in backwards (triple check the polarity) and make sure you discharge caps prior to testing.

[bitseeker]

Thanks to a kind member of the HPAK mailing list, I have finally tracked down the type of line cord used by the 431B power meter. That'll be relatively cheap compared to the thermistor mount and cable required to actually use the thing to measure RF power.

Oh, I didn't know you needed a power cable, too. You can get them on eBay for $15-20. They're kinda pricey for a power cable, but I've seen worse.

Just to note with the HP power meters: the reason they are so cheap is the number of power meters exceeds the number of mounts/sensors left that haven't been blown up by at least 2 orders of magnitude! 

I watched a power meter with three sensors in a nice case go for nearly £1000 here in the UK a few years ago.

Yeah, even the "parts" grade sensors are listed at ridiculous prices. Hence, I had relegated these devices to parts mule status and enclosures for future projects. Are they useful for anything else without a sensor?

[0culus]

Thanks to a kind member of the HPAK mailing list, I have finally tracked down the type of line cord used by the 431B power meter. That'll be relatively cheap compared to the thermistor mount and cable required to actually use the thing to measure RF power.

Oh, I didn't know you needed a power cable, too. You can get them on eBay for $15-20. They're kinda pricey for a power cable, but I've seen worse.

Just to note with the HP power meters: the reason they are so cheap is the number of power meters exceeds the number of mounts/sensors left that haven't been blown up by at least 2 orders of magnitude! 

I watched a power meter with three sensors in a nice case go for nearly £1000 here in the UK a few years ago.

Yeah, even the "parts" grade sensors are listed at ridiculous prices. Hence, I had relegated these devices to parts mule status and enclosures for future projects. Are they useful for anything else without a sensor?

No worries. 

I need a way to measure absolute rf power accurately, so it seems that getting one of these "closed loop" power meters in good nick is useful because it can be used to calibrate one of the newer open loop meters. Hence, I am willing to spend a little money if I have to.

[Cubdriver]

Any excuse is good with me 

Just got outbid on another Heathkit VTVM 

Decided I needed some more tube / valve kit so have been trying to snag some Heathkit bits.

I have one of these (minus droppings), so I'm not interested
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-TEKTRONIX-TYPE-191-CONSTANT-AMPLITUDE-SIGNAL-GENERATOR/264253532210
They are fun, but do look at the signal and power connectors.

I've never seen that connector. I have seen older Tek scopes that have UHF connectors for inputs, though.  That would drive me nuts...I know tons of radios have them, but I hate them and make a conscious effort to minimize them in my lab.

Ahh, yes, the GENRAD hermaphrodite connectors.  Quite clever, actually, but a bit of a PITA to source these days.  I saw them live and in person for the first time at the TRW swap meet out in CA a few years ago; a vendor there had a bunch from a shop he'd bought out.  I had no need, so I didn't buy any.  Of course later that afternoon, what do I buy at Apex but a Tek 191 that takes them.  And of course, he wasn't at the next few TRW meets I managed to time a visit for, so I wound up finding some on the bay.

-Pat

[Cubdriver]

Thanks to a kind member of the HPAK mailing list, I have finally tracked down the type of line cord used by the 431B power meter. That'll be relatively cheap compared to the thermistor mount and cable required to actually use the thing to measure RF power.

Oh, I didn't know you needed a power cable, too. You can get them on eBay for $15-20. They're kinda pricey for a power cable, but I've seen worse.

Another option if the real estate is available on the panel is to replace the PH 163 receptacle with an IEC 320 C-14 inlet to permit the use of modern detachable mains cables.

Yeah, even the "parts" grade sensors are listed at ridiculous prices. Hence, I had relegated these devices to parts mule status and enclosures for future projects. Are they useful for anything else without a sensor?

Paperweight?

--Pat

[Cubdriver]

Going well tonight. Just got another hooky looking GDO.

So that’s three tube GDOs and a VTVM in the last week. Plan is to cannibalise at least two of the GDOs to build regen receivers with the remains.

As usual I will no doubt just end up with 4 broken things

Alright, I just read that and did a double take.    I saw 'tube GDO' and thought 'there are tube type GPS Disciplined Oscillators?!?  I gotta find one of those!', then almost immediately realized that you meant Grid Dip Oscillator.  D'oh!

Yeah, I'm an idiot.   Why do you ask?

-Pat

[0culus]

Thanks to a kind member of the HPAK mailing list, I have finally tracked down the type of line cord used by the 431B power meter. That'll be relatively cheap compared to the thermistor mount and cable required to actually use the thing to measure RF power.

Oh, I didn't know you needed a power cable, too. You can get them on eBay for $15-20. They're kinda pricey for a power cable, but I've seen worse.

Another option if the real estate is available on the panel is to replace the PH 163 receptacle with an IEC 320 C-14 inlet to permit the use of modern detachable mains cables.

Yeah, even the "parts" grade sensors are listed at ridiculous prices. Hence, I had relegated these devices to parts mule status and enclosures for future projects. Are they useful for anything else without a sensor?

Paperweight?

--Pat

I thought about that, but I'd rather leave it unmolested if I can still get a mains cord to fit it.

I do believe that without the thermistor and associated cables, it's pretty much going to look nice on a shelf. 

[bd139]

Yeah, even the "parts" grade sensors are listed at ridiculous prices. Hence, I had relegated these devices to parts mule status and enclosures for future projects. Are they useful for anything else without a sensor?

I always consider buying them only for the enclosure but sometimes even that would be a PITA as you'd have to manufacture an entire new front panel for it.

[mnementh]

Just to note with the HP power meters: the reason they are so cheap is the number of power meters exceeds the number of mounts/sensors left that haven't been blown up by at least 2 orders of magnitude! 

I watched a power meter with three sensors in a nice case go for nearly £1000 here in the UK a few years ago.

Yeah, it's going to involve paying through the nose. But, I understand that the same thermistor mounts and cables also work with the 432 series power meters, so if I end up with one of those too... 

Ummm... I know I'm risking having someone try to drive a stake through my scaly tinkerdwagon chest, but seriously... if the thermistor head & cable for that meter is THAT expensive, you should probably cut your losses and move to a civilised machine that uses the 84xx series sensors.

For similar $300-ish cost, they're  good 100KHz to 4/8/12GHz or even some models ($600-ish tho) as high as 26GHz. HP 437Bs average ~$100 all the time and routinely show up for as little as $50-60 passing all self-tests; you'll get a helluva lot more for your money there than with that old limited thermistor head. And if you MUST have a analog example, I've seen the 84xx-compatible 435B as cheap as $15 shipped.

Also, once you have your 84xx power sensor, if you need it, the newer E4418A meter are also compatible, and I've seen a couple of those go by for $150-ish, though that was a couple years ago.

Like bd139 says, the big problem is getting a power sensor that isn't effed up; but that appears to be true with your old thermistor head as well.

mnem
*Drops back & punts*

[beanflying]

Yes that’s on the watch list. Connectors are excellent on them. Hermaphroditic. We had some on some kit back in the day. Inevitably if I won it I’d have to find an adapter

Apart from keeping myself a pair of GR-874 BNC adapters I think I have redistributed all the others I had around the planet, I will check when I get my lazy bum out of bed and see if I have any others. There was some listed on evilbay at the time too.

[0culus]

Just to note with the HP power meters: the reason they are so cheap is the number of power meters exceeds the number of mounts/sensors left that haven't been blown up by at least 2 orders of magnitude! 

I watched a power meter with three sensors in a nice case go for nearly £1000 here in the UK a few years ago.

Yeah, it's going to involve paying through the nose. But, I understand that the same thermistor mounts and cables also work with the 432 series power meters, so if I end up with one of those too... 

Ummm... I know I'm risking having someone try to drive a stake through my scaly tinkerdwagon chest, but seriously... if the thermistor head & cable for that meter is THAT expensive, you should probably cut your losses and move to a civilised machine that uses the 84xx series sensors.

For similar $300-ish cost, they're  good 100KHz to 4/8/12GHz or even some models ($600-ish tho) as high as 26GHz. HP 437Bs average ~$100 all the time and routinely show up for as little as $50-60 passing all self-tests; you'll get a helluva lot more for your money there than with that old limited thermistor head. And if you MUST have a analog example, I've seen the 84xx-compatible 435B as cheap as $15 shipped.

Also, once you have your 84xx power sensor, if you need it, the newer E4418A meter are also compatible, and I've seen a couple of those go by for $150-ish, though that was a couple years ago.

Like bd139 says, the big problem is getting a power sensor that isn't effed up; but that appears to be true with your old thermistor head as well.

mnem
*Drops back & punts*

True, but the closed loop system is useful to have as a standard to calibrate the 50 MHz reference out on later open loop systems. Someone on the HPAK mailing list says they have a large selection of the heads, so I sent them a PM to inquire.

[bd139]

HP failure mode which I am sure I have seen:

1. Someone cruises into the lab to his nice set up of one 8485A sensor with two 20dB attenuators in front of it.
2. Yawns a bit staring onto the bench, plugs in the TX set and runs the test process.
3. There is a tiny "fum" noise only heard by the dwarves that live inside the sensor whos only purpose is to shake their heads and tut at the user while being engulfed in the inferno (this is why they are never found when someone cracks a sensor open).
4. Engineer wonders why there's no output.
5. Engineer then realises someone has nicked one of the 20dB attenuators off the bench after he went home the evening after and the sensor is now fried.
6. Engineer then waits until everyone is out to lunch and swaps it for someone else's one.
7. I got the "it just stopped working story" when returning to the audit department where I was perched debugging the software they used.

[mnementh]

Yeah I've watched that all the way through. Really would love something like that TBH.

VOLTNUT ALERT! 3456A, Leeds, buyer collects. Too far for me to be arsed unfortunately.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133002295538

I guess you didn't read the description.   

"I can send this on your own risk for around £15"

David

Yeah I saw that. When someone says that they're going to pack it in a carrier bag with tape round it and send it Hermes.

I would PAY to see a Hermes driver try and do that with a 3456A...     And I'd be standing by with a wheelbarrow to dump his arse in the ditch with a broken leg...

mnem
...then steal his truck. 

[mnementh]

I’ve been looking at this. I looked at the Peak ones to start with but you have to buy their LCR and separate ESR meter. Then DE5000 but you can’t import them sanely here.

Hmmm, the DE5000 seems like a good price. Probably get what you pay for but it's probably better than no LCR meter...

DE5000 is good (I and many others have one). Keysight U1733 has a bit better specs, but is more expensive. Unless you have specific requirements that demand more, the DE5000 should serve you well. But check the other threads about it, too. If you do get it, don't put the battery in backwards (triple check the polarity) and make sure you discharge caps prior to testing.

I got my DE-5000 kit from this vendor in Japan: https://www.ebay.com/itm/282040803373 I know the "Economy Shipping" feels hooky as Hell, but mine DID eventually get here and it is 100% legit, new DER-EE product. ONLY the stuff you need, none of the stuff you don't.  Review their feedback; they've been doing the DE5000 a long time and just oooooodles of happy customers. 

But yeah; put a 1N4xxx across the battery solder pads for peace of mind. 

You can try coupon MYTENOFF in the USA before the 31st if not used yet. Good hunting!

mnem
 

[beanflying]

Checked 'the box' and no spare 874 connectors or adapters left. Happy Hunting 

Had to Tweak the battery holder to MK2 for the 419A and make the arms a few mm longer so I could move the batteries nicely clear of the PCB and the rest of the mess behind it. The 1/2" frame hole spacing pushed the batteries to far back with MK1.

[0culus]

Looks nice bean! My 431B doesn't appear to have had the battery option installed. It's clean as you'd like inside.

[bd139]

Just bought another heathkit GDO. That’s 4 this week 

Each one contains one 500uA panel meter, One HT/filament transformer, One very nice variable capacitor, One socketed EC92 / 6AB4. Paid 1/4 the price for each one than the parts value. Plan is to get one museum grade restoration, one parts mule and build a regen RX with the left overs. Win.