Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[bd139]

That’s really not black magic. It’s just where the lumped model falls on its butt.

[0culus]

The good news is the 431B's fuse actually is not blown...it's just so fine a conductor I couldn't see it in the crappy fluorescent lighting at the surplus joint. 

[tggzzz]

Dude... you can't deny that there is real black magic going on there. Given the time this was designed and mass-produced, it was flux-capacitor tech. And there is a fair bit of magnetron DNA in that assembly as well.

Try not to be so jaded; Yeah, sure we live in an age where we have multicore multi-GHz processors in our pocket... but jeez. 

I know irony doesn't travel, but I hoped the smiley would be a hint. There are more pictures of the Tek 184 at https://www.flickr.com/photos/anachrocomputer/albums/72157707046428895

Personally, since they are still lumped components, I don't regard them as magic. I reserve "magic" for designs where you need finite element analysis of EM waves in order to design the PCB Examples:

[bd139]

Indeed. They are still lumped. That last filter is basically just series inductance and the bows are capacitors. So that’s a 9th order low pass.

Cavities is where it gets really interesting.

[0culus]

I must admit that, having just started dipping into Bowick's RF circuit design book, all that looks like black sorcery. 

[bd139]

Great video on the subject:

https://youtu.be/drwGvATLNaw

[mnementh]

Dude... you can't deny that there is real black magic going on there. Given the time this was designed and mass-produced, it was flux-capacitor tech. And there is a fair bit of magnetron DNA in that assembly as well.

Try not to be so jaded; Yeah, sure we live in an age where we have multicore multi-GHz processors in our pocket... but jeez. 

I know irony doesn't travel, but I hoped the smiley would be a hint. There are more pictures of the Tek 184 at https://www.flickr.com/photos/anachrocomputer/albums/72157707046428895

Personally, since they are still lumped components, I don't regard them as magic. I reserve "magic" for designs where you need finite element analysis of EM waves in order to design the PCB Examples:

<sup><~~~ Death Plasma Emitter Goes Here 

<~~~ Youth Ray waves come out here</sup> 

k.... maybe I'm old-school but all my e-life, winking smiley has meant "I'm joking" or "just kidding", while specifically saying "Easy!"  with a regular regular smiley is being dead serious or even a little smug. Of course, lots of old-school e-tiquette has been lost since the advent of Yapoop and furkBook et al. 

mnem
 

[med6753]

When Tektronix first started they sourced their CRT's from RCA. Tek quickly discovered that RCA was supplying them junk so that's what initially got them into making their own.

   Well... not so much "supplying junk" as not having the right kind of expertise. RCA knew how to make EM deflection CRTs that were reliable and cost-effective; Tek needed electrostatic deflection CRTs that were very fast and with a level of precision an order of magnitude tighter tolerance than RCA could do. Tek's rejection rate on some of their own production was as high as 60%; clearly you can't do that working with a channel partner. 

Think of the times. Late 40's, early 50's. True, RCA was big into EM deflection CRT's for the TV market. And that nasty bastard Sarnoff was still in charge. And they were making shit tons of money. But RCA did supply most of the electrostatic CRT's for hobby level scopes and other companies. Most of these scopes had bandwidth's well under 5MHz. Along comes this little company called "Tektronix" wanting CRT's capable of unheard of 10MHz and above. And low volumes to boot. Now knowing Mr Sarnoff and looking at his business plan what would you do? That's right...kiss off. I'm busy developing COLOR CRT's.  So yea, Tek had to roll their own with a very high initial reject rate until they gained expertise.

[tggzzz]

k.... maybe I'm old-school but all my e-life, winking smiley has meant "I'm joking" or "just kidding", while specifically saying "Easy!"  with a regular regular smiley is being dead serious or even a little smug. Of course, lots of old-school e-tiquette has been lost since the advent of Yapoop and furkBook et al. 

mnem
 

Yes, well, we smoke fags, eat and burn faggots, sit on bums, and if we met you wouldn't be able to tell whether or not I was wearing pants. And Gay used to be a name given to daughters.

[med6753]

k.... maybe I'm old-school but all my e-life, winking smiley has meant "I'm joking" or "just kidding", while specifically saying "Easy!"  with a regular regular smiley is being dead serious or even a little smug. Of course, lots of old-school e-tiquette has been lost since the advent of Yapoop and furkBook et al. 

mnem
 

Yes, well, we smoke fags, eat and burn faggots, sit on bums, and if we met you wouldn't be able to tell whether or not I was wearing pants. And Gay used to be a name given to daughters.

Yep, and that kind of talk over here would drive the snowflakes ape shit and you'd be run out of town and branded a bigot. 

[0culus]

I don't go out of my way to be rude to anyone, but people who go around looking for reasons to be offended wear my patience thin. 

...on the microwave design subject, I downloaded that simulator the guy uses in the video above. Pretty neat and easy to pick up, easier than kicad for sure, for just playing around with things.

[mnementh]

Currently printing up a couple of these; I acquired a much newer Sony BluRay for the LR, and it's a little bit thicker than my old one. These will go under the back feet of my DTS receiver to match the height so it can sit on top of the BluRay player. Old-school passive-cooled Pioneer from the "transition to DVD" period; too much heat from the top vents to have anything covering them.

I'll show y'all some pics of the finished application in the morning when they're done. 

mnem
 

               


All done. Parts popped off the tile ready to use this morning; zero cleanup required.    It's applications like this where I see FDM 3DP being a real, reasonable change to our everyday lives; simple widgety things where you need something that fits "just right" but would be more hassle than its worth to make by hand.

Literally 10 minutes in Fusion and Cura; 5 minutes prep on the printer (including cleaning and fresh coat of hairspray...  ) and 5-6 hours of the printer working by itself while I do other things. 

mnem
"widget... widget-widget..."

[Mr. Scram]

<sup><~~~ Death Plasma Emitter Goes Here 

<~~~ Youth Ray waves come out here</sup> 

k.... maybe I'm old-school but all my e-life, winking smiley has meant "I'm joking" or "just kidding", while specifically saying "Easy!"  with a regular regular smiley is being dead serious or even a little smug. Of course, lots of old-school e-tiquette has been lost since the advent of Yapoop and furkBook et al. 

mnem
 

Using copious amounts of animated GIF images online also used to be acceptable or even cool. Just saying.

[mnementh]

k.... maybe I'm old-school but all my e-life, winking smiley has meant "I'm joking" or "just kidding", while specifically saying "Easy!"  with a regular regular smiley is being dead serious or even a little smug. Of course, lots of old-school e-tiquette has been lost since the advent of Yapoop and furkBook et al. 

mnem
 

Yes, well, we smoke fags, eat and burn faggots, sit on bums, and if we met you wouldn't be able to tell whether or not I was wearing pants. And Gay used to be a name given to daughters.

Yep, and that kind of talk over here would drive the snowflakes ape shit and you'd be run out of town and branded a bigot. 

Jeezus H Christ a-hoppin' on a pogo stick. 

Nowhere in my comment did I say, suggest, or even marginally infer that I was in ANY way offended, or that anybody had said ANYTHING wrong. I was just explaining that I took tggzzz's statement at face value and WHY.

Somehow THAT turned into this snowflake-bashing defensive-posturing butthurt back & forth?!? 

Good lord... we all better get outta here before somebody comes back with a "Oh Yeah?!?", a "Sez YOU!!!" or *GASP!* "Yo momma!!!" 

And just to be clear... THAT winking smiley means I'm speaking in jest... though a little bit serious about all this blowing stuff out of proportion. 

Using copious amounts of animated GIF images online also used to be acceptable or even cool. Just saying.

It's part of who the online entity known as "mnementh" is. If this were a proper engineering or purely technical related thread, these sentiments would be appropriate and I would be out of line. However, this thread has been very clearly defined as "OT", so in here that attitude comes off more as you being intolerant.

I highly doubt you mean it that way, so "meh."

mnem

[Mr. Scram]

Jeezus H Christ a-hoppin' on a pogo stick. 

Nowhere in my comment did I say, suggest, or even marginally infer that I was in ANY way offended, or that anybody had said ANYTHING wrong. I was just explaining that I took tggzzz's statement at face value and WHY.

Somehow THAT turned into this snowflake-bashing defensive-posturing butthurt back & forth?!? 

Good lord... we all better get outta here before somebody comes back with a "Oh Yeah?!?", a "Sez YOU!!!" or *GASP!* "Yo momma!!!" 

And just to be clear... THAT winking smiley means I'm speaking in jest... though a little bit serious about all this blowing stuff out of proportion. 

It's part of who the online entity known as "mnementh" is. If this were a proper engineering or purely technical related thread, these sentiments would be appropriate and I would be out of line. However, this thread has been very clearly defined as "OT", so in here that attitude comes off more as you being intolerant. I doubt you mean it that way, so "meh."

mnem

My comment wasn't some passive aggressive move to put you in your place. I was just remarking that times have changed and that the meaning of things evolves, especially so on the internet. I have no issues with whether or not any of your images on here have been animated or not. Generic comment, not aimed. No attitude involved.

[mnementh]

When Tektronix first started they sourced their CRT's from RCA. Tek quickly discovered that RCA was supplying them junk so that's what initially got them into making their own.

   Well... not so much "supplying junk" as not having the right kind of expertise. RCA knew how to make EM deflection CRTs that were reliable and cost-effective; Tek needed electrostatic deflection CRTs that were very fast and with a level of precision an order of magnitude tighter tolerance than RCA could do. Tek's rejection rate on some of their own production was as high as 60%; clearly you can't do that working with a channel partner. 

Think of the times. Late 40's, early 50's. True, RCA was big into EM deflection CRT's for the TV market. And that nasty bastard Sarnoff was still in charge. And they were making shit tons of money. But RCA did supply most of the electrostatic CRT's for hobby level scopes and other companies. Most of these scopes had bandwidth's well under 5MHz. Along comes this little company called "Tektronix" wanting CRT's capable of unheard of 10MHz and above. And low volumes to boot. Now knowing Mr Sarnoff and looking at his business plan what would you do? That's right...kiss off. I'm busy developing COLOR CRT's.  So yea, Tek had to roll their own with a very high initial reject rate until they gained expertise.

That's exactly what I was saying. Just because RCA was one of the biggest tube manufacturers in the world, does NOT mean they had the expertise (or even, as you say, the interest) to make the kind of fast, precision electrostatic CRTs Tek wanted. They made tubes and TV screens, not test equipment.

And they made these parts durable and cheap and with broad operating tolerances, so that shipping a TV, then displaying that TV, then that TV being taken home and moved into the living room by normal people didn't result in a brand-new TV that needed new tubes or the CRT replaced. Most of the time. This was pretty much the exact opposite of what Tek was about. So yeah, they had to figure it all out themselves.  Amazingly, they succeeded, and did so in a field that had crazy competition during the beginnings of the USA's second corporate boom.

mnem
 

[0culus]

When Tektronix first started they sourced their CRT's from RCA. Tek quickly discovered that RCA was supplying them junk so that's what initially got them into making their own.

   Well... not so much "supplying junk" as not having the right kind of expertise. RCA knew how to make EM deflection CRTs that were reliable and cost-effective; Tek needed electrostatic deflection CRTs that were very fast and with a level of precision an order of magnitude tighter tolerance than RCA could do. Tek's rejection rate on some of their own production was as high as 60%; clearly you can't do that working with a channel partner. 

Think of the times. Late 40's, early 50's. True, RCA was big into EM deflection CRT's for the TV market. And that nasty bastard Sarnoff was still in charge. And they were making shit tons of money. But RCA did supply most of the electrostatic CRT's for hobby level scopes and other companies. Most of these scopes had bandwidth's well under 5MHz. Along comes this little company called "Tektronix" wanting CRT's capable of unheard of 10MHz and above. And low volumes to boot. Now knowing Mr Sarnoff and looking at his business plan what would you do? That's right...kiss off. I'm busy developing COLOR CRT's.  So yea, Tek had to roll their own with a very high initial reject rate until they gained expertise.

That's exactly what I was saying. Just because RCA was one of the biggest tube manufacturers in the world, does NOT mean they had the expertise (or even, as you say, the interest) to make the kind of fast, precision electrostatic CRTs Tek wanted. They made tubes and TV screens, not test equipment.

And they made these parts durable and cheap and with broad operating tolerances, so that shipping a TV, then displaying that TV, then that TV being taken home and moved into the living room by normal people didn't result in a brand-new TV that needed new tubes or the CRT replaced. Most of the time. This was pretty much the exact opposite of what Tek was about. So yeah, they had to figure it all out themselves.  Amazingly, they succeeded, and did so in a field that had crazy competition during the beginnings of the USA's second corporate boom.

mnem
 

The startup R&D costs must have been immense, but it paid off handsomely. As I heard an old timer say once, there's three names in scopes: Tektronix, Tektronix, and Tektronix.   

[mnementh]

My comment wasn't some passive aggressive move to put you in your place. I was just remarking that times have changed and that the meaning of things evolves, especially so on the internet. I have no issues with whether or not any of your images on here have been animated or not. Generic comment, not aimed. No attitude involved.

I guessed it was something like that.  I figure most folks are just doing the best they know how, just like me. 

mnem
"We all take our turn being the assho'; it's human nature. Don't be too quick to pass judgement; tomorrow will be your turn." ~me

[tautech]

Since you're on the topic of Tek CRT's, a link I have stashed in the Repair board:

https://youtu.be/G0Dci5RPe94

[bd139]

Question for you American folk. I have an opportunity to travel to NY on business free of charge and then take a week off afterwards. Was thinking, if I can manipulate the schedule enough, of hiring a turd with wheels and driving down the East Coast then doing National Air and Space Museum, trying to catch a SpaceX launch, skipping the fuck out of Orlando and hitting Miami for a weekend. I may be able to claim the car on expenses, but not an internal flight. Anything else interesting to do down that route?

Was considering trying to nail some high value surplus (in UK) stuff, ship them back hooky brown box to myself as well then sell in UK to pay the rest of it off  . Any retailers / surplus suppliers down that side of the coast?

[tautech]

Don't miss the chance to spend a day at least at the Smithsonian.

[0culus]

Question for you American folk. I have an opportunity to travel to NY on business free of charge and then take a week off afterwards. Was thinking, if I can manipulate the schedule enough, of hiring a turd with wheels and driving down the East Coast then doing National Air and Space Museum, trying to catch a SpaceX launch, skipping the fuck out of Orlando and hitting Miami for a weekend. I may be able to claim the car on expenses, but not an internal flight. Anything else interesting to do down that route?

Was considering trying to nail some high value surplus (in UK) stuff, ship them back hooky brown box to myself as well then sell in UK to pay the rest of it off  . Any retailers / surplus suppliers down that side of the coast?

I can't speak for any place but Washington, DC and a few things around NYC.

If you want to do the Smithsonian properly, you need at least a week. I had an entire summer living there a few years ago, and I still didn't quite get all the museums on the National Mall in (I did on subsequent trips!). The National Air and Space Museum on the mall is awesome, but the last Smithsonian museum I have yet to make it to (The Udvar-Hazy Center at Dulles Airport) is much better from what I've been told. Less cramped. Either way, come prepared to walk. A lot. Also, it's worth buying a Metro card and loading it up with $20 USD or so, even if you do have a rental car. Parking is exorbitant in DC, especially anywhere near federal buildings. Much cheaper to ride the metro around.

Other DC area stuff which may or may not interest you:

* Lincoln and Jefferson Memorials, Washington Monument, WWII memorial, Vietnam memorial ("The Wall"), Korean War memorial. If you like plane spotting, the Lincoln Memorial has a great view of arrivals if KDCA is running the RWY 19 River Visual approach, alternately departures if they are using the Mt. Vernon approach.
* Spy Museum is pretty neat, paid admission though
* Georgetown, cupcakes if you're into that fad ( ). Oldest existing house in Washington. Expensive shopping. 
* National Zoo, great great and lesser cat exhibits and elephants among a lot of other things.
* C&O Canal towpath, a wonderful biking/hiking trail. It extends all the way up to Cumberland, MD. When I was there I did a bike ride about 13 miles up to the Potomac waterfalls. Absolutely gorgeous.
* Mt. Vernon trail, another biking/hiking trail that goes south past National Airport all the way to George Washington's Mt. Vernon. I didn't actually do this one because it got hella hot the weekend after the C&O canal biking trip.
* In Rosslyn, VA you can find a well hidden historical marker at a nondescript parking garage...this is where Bob Woodward met with Deep Throat during the Watergate Scandal.
* If you find your way further north, the National Cryptologic Museum at NSA HQ at Ft. Meade is absolutely worth a visit. It's open to the public, not well advertised, but has amazing exhibits of stuff you won't see elsewere.

NYC:

* Times Square is fun
* USS Intrepid museum (basically take 46th St. west from Times Square and you're there. Awesome collection of aircraft on a restored aircraft carrier. Also a submarine, and a Concorde on display.

[med6753]

k.... maybe I'm old-school but all my e-life, winking smiley has meant "I'm joking" or "just kidding", while specifically saying "Easy!"  with a regular regular smiley is being dead serious or even a little smug. Of course, lots of old-school e-tiquette has been lost since the advent of Yapoop and furkBook et al. 

mnem
 

Yes, well, we smoke fags, eat and burn faggots, sit on bums, and if we met you wouldn't be able to tell whether or not I was wearing pants. And Gay used to be a name given to daughters.

Yep, and that kind of talk over here would drive the snowflakes ape shit and you'd be run out of town and branded a bigot. 

Jeezus H Christ a-hoppin' on a pogo stick. 

Nowhere in my comment did I say, suggest, or even marginally infer that I was in ANY way offended, or that anybody had said ANYTHING wrong. I was just explaining that I took tggzzz's statement at face value and WHY.

Somehow THAT turned into this snowflake-bashing defensive-posturing butthurt back & forth?!? 

Good lord... we all better get outta here before somebody comes back with a "Oh Yeah?!?", a "Sez YOU!!!" or *GASP!* "Yo momma!!!" 

And just to be clear... THAT winking smiley means I'm speaking in jest... though a little bit serious about all this blowing stuff out of proportion. 

Using copious amounts of animated GIF images online also used to be acceptable or even cool. Just saying.

It's part of who the online entity known as "mnementh" is. If this were a proper engineering or purely technical related thread, these sentiments would be appropriate and I would be out of line. However, this thread has been very clearly defined as "OT", so in here that attitude comes off more as you being intolerant.

I highly doubt you mean it that way, so "meh."

mnem

Who's butthurt? Not me and I don't think anyone else is either. I was just pointing out that those particular words have an entirely different meaning here and the PC crowd will have a field day with you. That's all. 

Resume our regular programming. And if you are butthurt there's the door.....don't let it hit you on the arse on the way out. 

[mnementh]

Since you're on the topic of Tek CRT's, a link I have stashed in the Repair board:

https://youtu.be/G0Dci5RPe94

They show a 454 like the one in my closet at the end of that video, which is slightly older than I am. 

mnem
Yes.

[med6753]

Question for you American folk. I have an opportunity to travel to NY on business free of charge and then take a week off afterwards. Was thinking, if I can manipulate the schedule enough, of hiring a turd with wheels and driving down the East Coast then doing National Air and Space Museum, trying to catch a SpaceX launch, skipping the fuck out of Orlando and hitting Miami for a weekend. I may be able to claim the car on expenses, but not an internal flight. Anything else interesting to do down that route?

Was considering trying to nail some high value surplus (in UK) stuff, ship them back hooky brown box to myself as well then sell in UK to pay the rest of it off  . Any retailers / surplus suppliers down that side of the coast?

0culus gave some good suggestions for DC. I'll expand on NYC a little.

If you go to Times Square do NOT, I repeat, do NOT visit any restaurant within 5 blocks of it unless you want to blow your entire meal allowance on one meal. Trust me, I know.
He mentioned the USS Intrepid, definite thumbs up. 
Ground Zero, the 911 museum, and the new Freedom Tower. Up to you. Frankly it gives me the heebie jeebies to go anywhere near it. And my Lady Cop wants absolutely nothing to do with it. She witnessed the whole damn towers hit and collapse.
Staten Island Ferry. It runs every half hour and is free. You see the harbor and the Statue of Liberty. When the ferry gets to Staten Island simply hitch the next one back to Manhattan.
Speaking of the Statue of Liberty. If you want to visit it's best to get to it from the New Jersey side if you a renting a car.

If you are planning on driving down to Miami you'll be taking I-95 all the way down. After DC there really isn't a whole lot to see except Waffle House restaurants every 5 miles.  But if you want to get a feel for American Redneck I invite you to stop at one. The food ain't bad really but the atmosphere is definitely Southern.

About 200 miles away from the actual location on the South Carolina border you'll start to see signs for "South Of The Border". Stay away. Big tourist trap. 

If I think of more I'll post up.