Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mnementh]

Huntron Tracker is essentially a very basic AF Scope in X-Y mode with a simplified version of the Eico "Curve Tracer" built-in. In a tiny package. Back in the Si TTL days, when GE transistors and uA-destructible semis were rare, this (and the ShortSqweek) served very well as a side x side comparative diag tool for when you didn't have a schematic. You could compare the trace/tone given at the same point on a known good PCB vs suspect one and it helped you find at least the right neighborhood to component-test in.

In many cases, you could identify a bad semi in circuit; this was invaluable. However, nowadays, too many semi devices can be destroyed by the currents and voltages they operate at; instead of locating bad semis, these tools create them.

I do realize that there are modernized versions of these tools; however, anecdotal evidence indicates they still cause damage entirely too easily. Yes, this can be considered "user error", but I see it more as simply a dangerous tool; like using a machete where a scalpel is appropriate. Or perhaps more aptly, a scattergun where a rifle is needed.

mnem

[bitseeker]

Lends new meaning to "shutgun approach."

[mnementh]

Lends new meaning to "shotgun approach."

I KNEW you'd get it!

mnem
*Whispers...* "Laser-sighted grenade launcher..."

[bd139]

Ugh flashback. Back when I was at university I volunteered in the lab assistants office for a bit. They had one guy who was "mr fixit" who was arguably just better than the other guys in there. One of his debugging tools was an old Farnell power supply and a couple of DMM probes plugged into it. I never saw it in action but I suspect that was what caused their usual diagnosis of "it's fucked, we'll just buy another one".  That's how I see a huntron tracker in my mind.

Apparently they still sell them...

[mnementh]

Yup. Don't gag.

mnem
*tzzzt*

[med6753]

Holy crap, look at the prices of those Trackers! Are they freaking nuts?  But hopefully they have kept up with the times and are now much "kinder" to the DUT. I would assume if they weren't they would gone under a long time ago.

Do you have a piece of equipment on your bench that you consider your "problem child"? Seems every time you go to use it or check it you find something new wrong? And it takes up a lot of your time fixing it? I have one of those. Fluke 8600A. For the 3rd time in less than a year I've had to repair it. This time for failing calibration on 2K and 20K Ohms ranges. Would not come into spec. After considerable poking around finally found it. See partial schematic. R12 and R52 are carbon comp 100K, 2 watt, 5%. BOTH of them were measuring in excess of 105K, just enough to throw shit off. Ripped them out and installed metal film 100K, 2 watt, 1%. Of course now the DCV had be calibrated again. Done. And now after calibrating Ohms again it is now in spec.  So for now my problem child is fixed. But you know how that goes...they always demand your attention. 



In other news. We have a Winter Storm Watch posted for Sunday afternoon through Monday morning. Could get as much as 7-10 inches of snow. It just won't end.   

   
 
 

[tautech]

Do I or don't I ? 

   @ nearly $2/MHz I'm thinking about it for old times sake.     Would I ever use it, probably not........shit I sold off all this old stuff years ago ! 

If you're going to do such a damn-fool thing (we're all damned fools here ), that does seem like a prime-condition example of the breed.

Looks like the timebase knob is even intact; and from what I've seen, that alone makes it a good find.

Yes one this looks very straight and in the listing there's a full set of pics, closeups and from every angle.

Not only that, the CRT looks to be a nice size, which makes it a good candidate for use as an X-Y display for an octopus. The small footprint of the vertical enclosure is a bench-top bonus compared to horizontal scopes.

Actually they're better than that bitseeker, the last of the Telequipment's where when Tek acquired them and these D83's used Tek CRT's, from the 7000 series I think. bd139 will correct me if I got that wrong. When they are right, the fine and sharp trace on this is a thing of beauty, I've yet to use anything better.

They're a damn fine CRO, quite good to work on too and I still have the plugin extender cable I made when I last had one. Their main weakness is their EHT just like most CRO's that were pushing the limit of what was possible back then.

[worsthorse]

So far today I've bought another TMxxx frame and I am soon off to meet a guy about some 7000 series plug-ins. Then I found a local ad for a Tek 2216 oscilloscope. Do I need it? No. Am I going to buy it? Probably. The price is good but not terrific but it comes with the manual and a couple of probes and comes out of a test lab.  It would be kind of cool to own an analog scope with digital storage, right?


But I should ask... anyone here have one? Anything I should watch out for?

[bd139]

@mnem: screw those huntron prices. You could get a better engineer for that much more cash.  BTW you got me started on STM32 now. After much googleage I found this: http://kevincuzner.com/2016/05/22/dev-boards-where-were-going-we-wont-need-dev-boards/ ... and they have 12 bit ADCs which solves a bit of a problem I have at the moment.

@med6753: carbon comps are bastards and deserve to go to hell

@tautech: yes D83 uses same CRT as the Tek 7603. I actually gave the CRT out of my repaired one to someone to fix their 7603 as the HT went again on it. Their 7603 is working now so at least some good came of my hard work even if it wasn't what was intended.

[tautech]

In other news. We have a Winter Storm Watch posted for Sunday afternoon through Monday morning. Could get as much as 7-10 inches of snow. It just won't end.   

Much like our summer and getting bloody dry here now, nuthin like OZ but.
27C forecast here again. 

[mnementh]

Holy crap, look at the prices of those Trackers! Are they freaking nuts?  But hopefully they have kept up with the times and are now much "kinder" to the DUT. I would assume if they weren't they would gone under a long time ago.

We-e-e-e-llll...

They added a 200mV-limited range that is pretty much useless in many scenarios, as you can easily imagine. But it allows Huntron to blame "user error" when out of frustration the user turns it up to the next setting and their "shotgun with a computer built-in" fries their shit.

I expect they have lots of "1st-time" customers... not so many repeat. 

mnem
I guess that's a valid business model... 

[mnementh]

@mnem: screw those huntron prices. You could get a better engineer for that much more cash.  BTW you got me started on STM32 now. After much googleage I found this: http://kevincuzner.com/2016/05/22/dev-boards-where-were-going-we-wont-need-dev-boards/ ... and they have 12 bit ADCs which solves a bit of a problem I have at the moment.

100% agreed on the Huntron... they've made a niche market based on the "need" for ignorant people to give other ignorant people a way to diag complicated shit they don't even half-understand. 




Dude... that guy is like... doing it absolutely the hardest way effing possible. Not leveraging the built-in shit that makes STM32F-family processors amazing.

Come over to the DFU side; we have built-in USB connectivity and the bootloader lives in a built-in sandbox so you can't fuck it up.

mnem
 

[tautech]

Big clear out here. Managed to bag up and itemise about 18Kg of TH components today I still had lying around. They’re all going. I am keeping two small boxes of SMD parts and that’s it. I am afraid of turning into a hoarder 

No more Manhattan style ? 

Hang onto anything that can be used in a D83, I might need it ! 

[bitseeker]

I am afraid of turning into a hoarder 

Hang onto anything that can be used in a D83, I might need it ! 

LMFTFY: Send anything that can be used in a D83 to tautech!

[med6753]

I am afraid of turning into a hoarder 

Hang onto anything that can be used in a D83, I might need it ! 

LMFTFY: Send anything that can be used in a D83 to tautech!

"You're gonna need a bigger boat!" 

[beanflying]

In other news. We have a Winter Storm Watch posted for Sunday afternoon through Monday morning. Could get as much as 7-10 inches of snow. It just won't end.   

Much like our summer and getting bloody dry here now, nuthin like OZ but.
27C forecast here again. 

Back to February 'Normal' again today top of 27 here as well after that last couple of stinkers. Mid 20's for the next week 


Oh and just Buy the clunky old CRO you know you want to 

[bd139]

Big clear out here. Managed to bag up and itemise about 18Kg of TH components today I still had lying around. They’re all going. I am keeping two small boxes of SMD parts and that’s it. I am afraid of turning into a hoarder 

No more Manhattan style ? 

Hang onto anything that can be used in a D83, I might need it ! 

Manhattan style is still perfectly good here if not better. Check this https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/2403/db840e6874e29f55ad9a4599481738773b57.pdf

If you need anything it’s yours. I’ve got a working multiplier as well.

@mnem: screw those huntron prices. You could get a better engineer for that much more cash.  BTW you got me started on STM32 now. After much googleage I found this: http://kevincuzner.com/2016/05/22/dev-boards-where-were-going-we-wont-need-dev-boards/ ... and they have 12 bit ADCs which solves a bit of a problem I have at the moment.

100% agreed on the Huntron... they've made a niche market based on the "need" for ignorant people to give other ignorant people a way to diag complicated shit they don't even half-understand. 




Dude... that guy is like... doing it absolutely the hardest way effing possible. Not leveraging the built-in shit that makes STM32F-family processors amazing.

Come over to the DFU side; we have built-in USB connectivity and the bootloader lives in a built-in sandbox so you can't fuck it up.

mnem
 

Learning slowly. Thanks for the info.

[tautech]

Big clear out here. Managed to bag up and itemise about 18Kg of TH components today I still had lying around. They’re all going. I am keeping two small boxes of SMD parts and that’s it. I am afraid of turning into a hoarder 

No more Manhattan style ? 

Hang onto anything that can be used in a D83, I might need it ! 

Manhattan style is still perfectly good here if not better. Check this https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/2403/db840e6874e29f55ad9a4599481738773b57.pdf

That's quite cool using little strips for SMD Manhattan.   

If you need anything it’s yours. I’ve got a working multiplier as well.

Very generous of you.   

The D83 auction closes the day after my b'day and I might grab it as a pressie to myself. 
Her indoors is telling me not to look backwards  but for the $ it's less than she spends on a hairdo. 

[Kosmic]

@mnem: screw those huntron prices. You could get a better engineer for that much more cash.  BTW you got me started on STM32 now. After much googleage I found this: http://kevincuzner.com/2016/05/22/dev-boards-where-were-going-we-wont-need-dev-boards/ ... and they have 12 bit ADCs which solves a bit of a problem I have at the moment.

@med6753: carbon comps are bastards and deserve to go to hell

@tautech: yes D83 uses same CRT as the Tek 7603. I actually gave the CRT out of my repaired one to someone to fix their 7603 as the HT went again on it. Their 7603 is working now so at least some good came of my hard work even if it wasn't what was intended.

I like the little STM32 MCUs. I use a cheap programmer I bought on ebay and Atollic Trustudio. It's free and you get a decent IDE and debugger. Used to work on msp430 and pic when I was working in the telecom industry. I can't stand arduino.

[beanflying]

Non TEA related but impressive Tripod/Camera stability and well Planes for those with 'other' addictions and sort of related to other conversations in the last few weeks. Avalon Airshow in Melbourne is/has been on over the last few days.



Flighline show

[med6753]

Those F-22's are from Elmendorf AFB in Alaska. The 'AK' on the tail gives it away. Must have been a long trip. I didn't know that you Aussies were flying the P-8 Poseidon. Also, are all the F-111's now retired and replaced by the F-35?

[beanflying]

Yep we no longer have F111's or any bombers at all In times of peace not an issue but to not have any on tap is stupid.

Two USAF refuelling tankers in the video so seems a long haul unless they came from an Asian base?

[GregDunn]

Do you have a piece of equipment on your bench that you consider your "problem child"? Seems every time you go to use it or check it you find something new wrong? And it takes up a lot of your time fixing it? I have one of those. Fluke 8600A. For the 3rd time in less than a year I've had to repair it. This time for failing calibration on 2K and 20K Ohms ranges. Would not come into spec. After considerable poking around finally found it. See partial schematic. R12 and R52 are carbon comp 100K, 2 watt, 5%. BOTH of them were measuring in excess of 105K, just enough to throw shit off. Ripped them out and installed metal film 100K, 2 watt, 1%. Of course now the DCV had be calibrated again. Done. And now after calibrating Ohms again it is now in spec.  So for now my problem child is fixed. But you know how that goes...they always demand your attention. 

I've had 4 8600s go through here, and I ended up having issues with two of them: bad range PROM on one, leaky FET(s) on the input of the other.  I ended up swapping the bad PROM, and so gave up any hope of fixing the other cheaply; I then donated the DVM custom chip to a dead 8800A.  It's now a parts source in case of bad LEDs, switches or plug-in boards.  Luckily, the working units haven't demanded any spares yet!

[med6753]

Yep we no longer have F111's or any bombers at all In times of peace not an issue but to not have any on tap is stupid.

Two USAF refuelling tankers in the video so seems a long haul unless they came from an Asian base?

Yea, those 2 KC-135's probably came from Elmendorf too and kept the F-22's fed. And possibly the BUFF and the C-17 too.

[mnementh]

Dude... that guy is like... doing it absolutely the hardest way effing possible. Not leveraging the built-in shit that makes STM32F-family processors amazing.

Come over to the DFU side; we have built-in USB connectivity and the bootloader lives in a built-in sandbox so you can't fuck it up.

mnem
 

Learning slowly. Thanks for the info.

I'm glad if my own pitiful knowledge can help somebody. This is all stuff I've learned working with these processors as they come in flight controllers, but that's close to a decade's worth now. (!!! - Yeah, I can hardly believe it too!) I'm not even a novice programmer; but I've at least learned enough to understand the basics of how to connect to them so I can use someone else's software to configure them. 

Here's Banggood's collection of STM32Fxxx dev boards; depending on your needs, you can go as cheap/simple or as fast/powerful as you want. They have some starting at literally $2.69 shipped. (AKA "The Blue Pill")

   If you have a friend who's into RC quadcopters, he's probably got one or more old flight controllers that aren't fast/powerful enough for today's firmware (the dev cycle is now 3-6 months) he'll give you to tinker on. I have a couple I'd give you, but it'll cost more than they're worth to get 'em tooya. 

Take a look at the pic above to see what a modern FC looks like and all the I/O on it; this one incorporates an STM32F4 as main PID control (supposedly, this one uses some approximation of Terniary math I can barely wrap my brain around, but still similar concept to the traditional nested PID controllers used for other FCs) processor for the motor speed controllers and a separate STM32F3 to run separate gyro/accel noise filtering based on a Kalman algorithm.

Good hunting, my friend!

I have no doubt in about 5 minutes you'll know more about them than I ever did.

mnem
*Sleepy dwagon*