Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Specmaster]

I can turn on the electronic traction control if I think it'll help, but all it usually does is bog the engine down when I really need the torque.

From experience, I find that is the very last thing you should do, the traction control seeks to limit the amount of torque delivered to a road wheel to just below the point of when the wheel loses all grip and spins. Obviously if your wheels are in a hole already then its highly likely that your wheels will spin and struggle to get a grip from the get go, you need to clear a little bit of snow away from the wheels in order to get the car rolling first and then apply gentle pressure on the gas. This is true regardless of the transmission type. 

[Brumby]

I prefer a manual transmission - because I can tell the vehicle what I want through the drive train and when I want it.  Automatics are just "best guessing" nearly all the time and do their thing when they're good and ready.  Having said that, they are well suited to stop-start city traffic.  I made sure all my kids learned to drive on a manual - and to get their licences on one.  That way they would be able to drive anything from the get-go.

As for being able to drive a manual, there is a wide chasm in the capabilities of those who claim this.  I have been in a vehicle where the owner felt they were good at changing gear ... except that every time they changed gear, it felt like an experiment for causing whiplash.  I, however, am of the school that a passenger should not notice my gear changes, let alone get injured - and I'm not one for dilly-dallying.  My driving instructor said that I should imagine a cow bell sitting in the car - and that while driving, it should not clang - whether accelerating, braking, cornering or changing gear.  Some people I've seen would give themselves a migraine by the time they'd backed out of their drive.

Fine control of the clutch is necessary - which excludes riding it and dumping it.

[Neomys Sapiens]

Back again for some time-nuttery rant:

Conclusion: The GPSDO board isn't locking but with an little tweaking using a mikro controller and some programming it's faked to do so by putting it into manual active mode after some time without any lock to GPS. 

I don't know if this is the case with all of the GPSDOs of this type from this manufacturer. But having discovered this I can't recommend this type of Trimble based GPSDO.         

So, does it do anything at all with the GPS signal?

[mnementh]

I fail to see how a lossy torque converter can get more power to the ground than a direct clutch at low speeds.  What it's typically doing is wasting power so that you don't have to modulate the engine speed to keep the wheels from spinning or bogging down.  At highway speed, the challenges are much less severe, so yeah - lock the torque converter and you're fine.  I appreciate that it's trying to do the right thing, but the fact that you have to make the engine go zing-zing-zing to get it to move in slippery conditions while the converter tries to connect it to the wheels can't be efficient - or good on the engine.  The fact that they almost invariably don't have tachometers makes it even worse.  No modern AT has been able to impress me that they've solved the basic problems of drivability; they all feel like there's something very rubbery and slow between my foot and the wheels.  It's fine on dry road, but in ice and slush it's a challenge to control the car.  With my manual, I can feel the wheels slipping and see the engine speed; that's all I need.  I can turn on the electronic traction control if I think it'll help, but all it usually does is bog the engine down when I really need the torque.

Like I said, we don't know about the reliability of the current round of autos, but she went through multiple brands from the early 80s through about 2010, and even though we made sure to hit the factory maintenance intervals, something inside would start misbehaving after a while.  Chevy, Saturn, Mazda... no difference.  I can't speak in detail to their driving habits, but our kids both have had similar experiences with their automatics, and they're pretty careful drivers.  And in the couple of instances where the wife and I had identical cars differing only in transmission type, I always got 5-10 MPG more in my car.  If anything, I drive more aggressively than she does, so it should have been the other way round.  I even had one of the mechanics comment on the condition of my clutch when I had my car serviced last time - at 125K it was barely worn.

Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen... and yet, she's driven 2 of them with zero issues so far.  I guess we'll see once the new one gets a significant amount of mileage on it.  I can say that it doesn't get much better mileage than my Mazda, for all the technological wizardry they supposedly incorporate into it.  I'd just like to see the ICE transcended once and for all, but with lobbyists making so much money from fossil fuels, that's not likely to happen until it's almost too late.

I have no idea where you get the idea that AT means they don't have tachs; I haven't owned a vehicle that didn't come with a tach in decades. Even my base model Saturn SL and "grandma's grocery-getter" PT Cruiser came with a tach.

The fact you refer to the torque converter this way proves you don't understand how they work. Modern TQs waste very little as most of the time they're locked. When they're not locked, they multiply the torque applied to them; sometimes as much as 10x. THIS is how they get more power to the ground. More torque is more grunt, which is what gets you going, and what pulls you out of the muck. Aside from the TQ, planetary gears are inherently more efficient and stronger.

The proof of this is in my own racing; I built a number of almost 12-second drag cars, but it wasn't until I went automatic that I was able to regularly break 12 seconds. All you have to do is learn how to select a TQ for stall speed vs the engine and you can consistently get more out of an automatic. And take my word; a properly tuned TH400 WILL do wheelstands in a 4800-lb Chevy Nova. 

Modern AT's have exactly the same gears in them as your favorite 6-speed Getrag. PLUS the torque multiplication when you need it.

mnem
*Old-school*

[GreyWoolfe]

Beautiful sunny day today, but it is cold. -3 C but no wind so it's bearable. Good day to get the Honda Civic out of hibernation and drive it. Just for the shear joy of it. Why? Because it has a manual gearbox. I'm one of the very few American drivers who hate automatic gearboxes although I have owned several and the daily driver Honda CR-V is a 5 speed automatic. A sad fact is that the majority of American drivers have no idea how to drive a manual gearbox. If they see a car with 3 pedals they panic. I've even run into folks my age who always drove cars with automatics. It is a skill that's rapidly disappearing.

The automatic gearbox in the CR-V and me have an uneasy truce. I tolerate it but dislike it. Always seems to be in the wrong gear at the wrong time and want's to shift into overdrive as soon as possible for economy but makes the engine lug. It just begs for a 6 speed manual gear box but it's not even available. And that's a sad fact too. Most American cars are not available with a manual gear box except some performance cars and small SUV's.

The Civic is back in hibernation until I feel the need to break out again and drive a real car rather than an appliance.   

Even though both vehicles right now are automatic, I much prefer to drive a manual.  Mrs GreyWoolfe also knows how to drive a manual.  Some day I will have another.

I prefer a manual transmission - because I can tell the vehicle what I want through the drive train and when I want it.  Automatics are just "best guessing" nearly all the time and do their thing when they're good and ready.  Having said that, they are well suited to stop-start city traffic.  I made sure all my kids learned to drive on a manual - and to get their licences on one.  That way they would be able to drive anything from the get-go.

As for being able to drive a manual, there is a wide chasm in the capabilities of those who claim this.  I have been in a vehicle where the owner felt they were good at changing gear ... except that every time they changed gear, it felt like an experiment for causing whiplash.  I, however, am of the school that a passenger should not notice my gear changes, let alone get injured - and I'm not one for dilly-dallying.  My driving instructor said that I should imagine a cow bell sitting in the car - and that while driving, it should not clang - whether accelerating, braking, cornering or changing gear.  Some people I've seen would give themselves a migraine by the time they'd backed out of their drive.

Fine control of the clutch is necessary - which excludes riding it and dumping it.

What used to drive Mrs GreyWoolfe crazy was my shifting without using the clutch.  My shifts were always smooth.  I don't like the jerky motion of a poorly shifted transmission.  There is no excuse not to be able to drive a manual smoothly other than lazy.

[URI]

Back again for some time-nuttery rant:

Conclusion: The GPSDO board isn't locking but with an little tweaking using a mikro controller and some programming it's faked to do so by putting it into manual active mode after some time without any lock to GPS. 

I don't know if this is the case with all of the GPSDOs of this type from this manufacturer. But having discovered this I can't recommend this type of Trimble based GPSDO.         

So, does it do anything at all with the GPS signal?

It seems like it does.   
The other question is, what does it do with the OCXO 10MHz signal..?


It seems to be reacting on errors of the 1pps signal (but to what reference)?

[mnementh]

Beautiful sunny day today, but it is cold. -3 C but no wind so it's bearable. Good day to get the Honda Civic out of hibernation and drive it. Just for the shear joy of it. Why? Because it has a manual gearbox. I'm one of the very few American drivers who hate automatic gearboxes although I have owned several and the daily driver Honda CR-V is a 5 speed automatic. A sad fact is that the majority of American drivers have no idea how to drive a manual gearbox. If they see a car with 3 pedals they panic. I've even run into folks my age who always drove cars with automatics. It is a skill that's rapidly disappearing.

The automatic gearbox in the CR-V and me have an uneasy truce. I tolerate it but dislike it. Always seems to be in the wrong gear at the wrong time and want's to shift into overdrive as soon as possible for economy but makes the engine lug. It just begs for a 6 speed manual gear box but it's not even available. And that's a sad fact too. Most American cars are not available with a manual gear box except some performance cars and small SUV's.

The Civic is back in hibernation until I feel the need to break out again and drive a real car rather than an appliance.   

Even though both vehicles right now are automatic, I much prefer to drive a manual.  Mrs GreyWoolfe also knows how to drive a manual.  Some day I will have another.

I prefer a manual transmission - because I can tell the vehicle what I want through the drive train and when I want it.  Automatics are just "best guessing" nearly all the time and do their thing when they're good and ready.  Having said that, they are well suited to stop-start city traffic.  I made sure all my kids learned to drive on a manual - and to get their licences on one.  That way they would be able to drive anything from the get-go.

As for being able to drive a manual, there is a wide chasm in the capabilities of those who claim this.  I have been in a vehicle where the owner felt they were good at changing gear ... except that every time they changed gear, it felt like an experiment for causing whiplash.  I, however, am of the school that a passenger should not notice my gear changes, let alone get injured - and I'm not one for dilly-dallying.  My driving instructor said that I should imagine a cow bell sitting in the car - and that while driving, it should not clang - whether accelerating, braking, cornering or changing gear.  Some people I've seen would give themselves a migraine by the time they'd backed out of their drive.

Fine control of the clutch is necessary - which excludes riding it and dumping it.

What used to drive Mrs GreyWoolfe crazy was my shifting without using the clutch.  My shifts were always smooth.  I don't like the jerky motion of a poorly shifted transmission.  There is no excuse not to be able to drive a manual smoothly other than lazy.

I drive both interchangeably between the three vehicles we own. I power-shift all the time in our last remaining Saturn, which is a 5-speed manual; a habit I've never broken since I learned to drive a clutchless MT in my stock car. I still prefer the 6-speed automatic in my wife's Rav4, both for feel and responsiveness. I prefer the big doorway and broad seats in Franken-Cruiser, but the AT is a slushy dog until the TQ locks up. It still beats driving a stick in town, though.

A car is a tool. Use the right tool for the job.

mnem
 

[beanflying]

Reminds me I must take my Automatix transmission for a ride after removing the dust and applying some lube and optional Lycra Two speed spring controlled weights to engage top gear dropping out again as the drive mechanism goes into beyond the redline causing the engine to shutdown and coast until recovered 0-25km/hr in first and in short bursts or with a strong tailwind 60+

New Titanium wheel nuts need to be fitted in place of the SRAM originals.

[tautech]

Reminds me I must take my Automatix transmission for a ride after removing the dust and applying some lube and optional Lycra Two speed spring controlled weights to engage top gear dropping out again as the drive mechanism goes into beyond the redline causing the engine to shutdown and coast until recovered 0-25km/hr in first and in short bursts or with a strong tailwind 60+

New Titanium wheel nuts need to be fitted in place of the SRAM originals.

Oh I see where you're going with this.....trying to work up a thirst so to have an excuse for more beer.   

[beanflying]

Shed Fridge is out of Beer but G&T fixings are about to get a go just after 3pm and a very pleasant sunny 25C 

Back to TEA Smart Tweezers arrive tomorrow so time to play with them and the LCR ones. Today's mission is Test Gear shelf height massaging.

[GregDunn]

I have no idea where you get the idea that AT means they don't have tachs; I haven't owned a vehicle that didn't come with a tach in decades. Even my base model Saturn SL and "grandma's grocery-getter" PT Cruiser came with a tach.

I get that idea from the cars my family has owned with ATs; the Saturn did have a tach, but none of the others did or do.  I didn't say they don't exist, but that I have seen very few.  The Prius definitely doesn't have one.  Just like engine temperature gauges, I consider them essential to monitoring the engine condition.  Oil pressure gauges, too, but they're even harder to find.
[/quote]

The fact you refer to the torque converter this way proves you don't understand how they work. Modern TQs waste very little as most of the time they're locked. When they're not locked, they multiply the torque applied to them; sometimes as much as 10x. THIS is how they get more power to the ground. More torque is more grunt, which is what gets you going, and what pulls you out of the muck. Aside from the TQ, planetary gears are inherently more efficient and stronger.

So modern torque converters don't have fluid couplings any more?  Unless the converter is locked, there is going to be loss.  When the engine speed increases and the car's speed does not, there is loss.  Sure, there will be torque multiplication, but any time that output shaft isn't turning (or isn't increasing in speed when the engine does), you don't get any use out of it.

[bitseeker]

The learning curve for learning to drive an automatic is about 30 seconds. Put it in 'D' and hit the gas. 

If an American driver can learn that skill even a monkey can. 

Almost forgot....put your left foot asleep or cut it off because you won't need it. 

If you're coming from a manual, though, the worst part about learning to drive an automatic is preventing your left foot from instinctively going for the clutch. However, the abrupt stop that ensues does train the brain quite rapidly.

[beanflying]

A Little While Later....

Lost Manson 15V 60A Supply to the back shelf along with a few tools and two storage boxes.
Gained Permanent Home for my MICSIG, return of my Racal counter and addition of my 6632B which is much more use than the Manson for Electronics.

What can I put in the 1/2 Rack Gap .....

Win Win now for the Gin 

[bitseeker]

Here in 'Stralia', it's hard to get any transmission other than Automatic in general cars other than the really small cars, or cars aspiring to be a sports car.

Similar in the US. Even sports cars are becoming automatic thanks to dual-clutch transmissions (though you can shift them, if you want).

I believe Porsche etc believes that Automatic transmissions in various forms are actually quicker than manuals. My latest car has a 3rd generation dual clutch transmission. I pray it holds out!

Yeah, dual-clutch transmissions, such as the Porsche PDK, can shift faster than a person can with a manual. Hence, the lower 0-to-whatever times.

[mnementh]

So... out of sheer annoyance, I went over my Tornado and tightened the belts again... this time to what I consider "excessive". I also went over the model again, generating neoBracket RevC with all the characters debossed to only 0.40mm depth; looks a lot better in layer view. Printing now at 0.1mm LH, 60mm/s speed with supports.

I'll drop some pics on y'all in the AM.

Cheers,

mnem
*OLAL*

[bitseeker]

What can I put in the 1/2 Rack Gap .....

Ah, a little ESD now. Time for more TEA.

[Inverted18650]

Greetings All,

I will post of pics and listings in the Buy/Sell forum of everything I was able to buy today. I do believe it is the "lot of all lots" (though it was lite on power supplies, it was ultra heavy on everything else!)

I am excited to share and hope you all will check it out. I'll tag a link in once the new thread is up.

[Brumby]

I was wondering when you'd pop your head in....

Very interested to see what you scored.

[mnementh]

I have no idea where you get the idea that AT means they don't have tachs; I haven't owned a vehicle that didn't come with a tach in decades. Even my base model Saturn SL and "grandma's grocery-getter" PT Cruiser came with a tach.

I get that idea from the cars my family has owned with ATs; the Saturn did have a tach, but none of the others did or do.  I didn't say they don't exist, but that I have seen very few.  The Prius definitely doesn't have one.  Just like engine temperature gauges, I consider them essential to monitoring the engine condition.  Oil pressure gauges, too, but they're even harder to find.

What good would a tach do you in a Prius? The engine runs at a fixed speed; it is a genset charging a battery for an electric motor.

The fact you refer to the torque converter this way proves you don't understand how they work. Modern TQs waste very little as most of the time they're locked. When they're not locked, they multiply the torque applied to them; sometimes as much as 10x. THIS is how they get more power to the ground. More torque is more grunt, which is what gets you going, and what pulls you out of the muck. Aside from the TQ, planetary gears are inherently more efficient and stronger.

So modern torque converters don't have fluid couplings any more?  Unless the converter is locked, there is going to be loss.  When the engine speed increases and the car's speed does not, there is loss.  Sure, there will be torque multiplication, but any time that output shaft isn't turning (or isn't increasing in speed when the engine does), you don't get any use out of it.

A "fluid coupling" is a different device; both in design and engineering concept. It DOES NOT do torque multiplication; it's purpose is to deliberately be slushy to smooth out reciprocation pulses in the powertrain, usually on stationary engines.

Did you even read my post, which you quoted above? As I said; the TQ IS LOCKED MOST OF THE TIME. They can do this because the computer controls the TCC solenoid; it does so based on the engine's powerband, the rpm in & out, and the loading so that the ONLY time the TQ is unlocked is when it is BENEFICIAL. in short, you have the best of both a TQ and a clutch, and it manages it all faster and more efficiently than a human being can.

Add to this a 6-speed (or more) planetary gear transmission that never has to unmesh its gears, and you have a completely different class of transmission than anything you're familiar with.

The trans no longer has to spend a lot of time with the TQ unlocked doing torque multiplication, because they actually have all the same close ratio gears to choose from as any high-performance manual transmission. Complex gear shifting is accomplished in milliseconds, because the computer controls it all with solenoid valves, which nowadays are usually assembled as a service block that is externally accessible for maintenance.

The bad old days where automatic transmissions were slow, boggy and wasteful are just that. The bad old days.

Cheers,

mnem
*About 30 seconds away from succumbing to gravity and waking up with keyboard waffle-face*

[beanflying]

What can I put in the 1/2 Rack Gap .....

Ah, a little ESD now. Time for more TEA.

I have plenty to chose from on the rear shelf (sort of within lead reach of the bench) Added the 735A Standard in there as a place holder.

Mmmm what don't I need from Inverted's acquisitions 

[Inverted18650]

Long day of driving, hoping to miss the snow as I head into the back end of the storm and was amazed how pleasant the Sunday drive was. (To take part in the driving thread). I am glad my vehicle is auto everything, it just makes life so much easier. I have the lovely British made Range Rover Sport HSE and it has spoiled me. I dont have to do much expect point it and go. Even towing a 5'x8' enclosed trailer on sloppy, wet roads today was virtually care-free.

It took my son and I about 2 hours of constant back and forth, in and out of the garage, to get the gear loaded, which the owner seemed to be impressed by. He said it normally takes them much more time. I suppose I was extremely eager, and with the increased motivated, I moved rather quickly.

I am currently charging the battery on the Tek TDS3012 that was part of the score, so I can use it to play with the various signal generator, cordlessly, so I can move around the room with more ease. I wife was kind enough to let me store everything in the living room tonight, as it was eaier to park in the front yard and walk the stuff in through the front door, than it would have been to come in through the garage entry. ( Ill send her some flowers at work tomorrow and maybe she'll let me leave some of it down here, as my shop is up on the 2nd floor of the house).

[Inverted18650]

A quick sneak peek/ preview. About 3/4's unpacked now.

One of the coolest things about the seller was he gave me this pen and said his grandfather would be happy knowing the lot is going to get some good use. I told him I was honored and will make him proud! The 'Cal stickers' are from his former lab out in California; maybe someone here knew him?

[med6753]

Holy shit!  OK, I apologize....you delivered......big time! 

[Specmaster]

Shed Fridge is out of Beer but G&T fixings are about to get a go just after 3pm and a very pleasant sunny 25C 

Back to TEA Smart Tweezers arrive tomorrow so time to play with them and the LCR ones. Today's mission is Test Gear shelf height massaging.

Haha, I had occasion to play with my tweezers yesterday, very impressed with them [emoji106]

[Specmaster]

What can I put in the 1/2 Rack Gap .....

Ah, a little ESD now. Time for more TEA.

How about another DMM?