Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[bitseeker]

Speaking of laptop power supplies, although I have an extra for my main machine, this discussion made me contemplate crafting adapter cables so that I can run laptops from a bench supply as backup. I think the most power I need for one machine is 20V @ 8-10A. All my bench supplies are linear and can't handle that on their own. However, I have one switch-mode supply, an HP 6032, which can pump out over 1kW. That should be enough.

As for having a documentation/schematic computer for the lab, almost any single-board computer and a big monitor should work well. It'd be silent and the computer could be stuck onto the back of the screen to occupy "zero" space.

[bd139]

That's not a bad idea! Unless you are me who does this to chargers (my old X201 workhorse, RIP my favourite laptop ever):



Going well off TEA here but economist mode kicked in. Only problem with desktops is the electricity bill offsets the savings over a couple of years to the amount of a decent second hand laptop. My desktop was costing £8/month to run. £288 over 3 years. Current laptop is £27 over the same period! Looking at the quite frankly insane sale prices of this unit on eBay (why are you so stupid humans buying 5 year old crap for silly money [but I'm not complaining]?!?!?!) I'm just going to skip off and buy a new MacBook Air with applecare tomorrow. TCO per month over 3 years offsetting (average) sale price of this including AppleCare, purchase price and electricity is £18 a month which is bugger all plus some other idiot will buy it off me in 3 years for £700 still. That gives me 8-9 hours battery life (no lugging charger around) and less bench used up. Plus with the slightly extortionate AppleCare buggering, I can smash it twice and only pay £79 excess to get it sorted there and then (which will happen believe me based on this one) 

Ultimately this means no budgetary problems for TEA and no problems from SWMBO which are the really important bits  :-D

[xrunner]

As for having a documentation/schematic computer for the lab, almost any single-board computer and a big monitor should work well. It'd be silent and the computer could be stuck onto the back of the screen to occupy "zero" space.

I've got in the habit of putting the service manual pdf on the cloud and viewing it on my iPad. I can sit it right next to the item I'm working on and it takes up little space.

[bd139]

That's a good plan as well. I can't really justify an iPad though for personal use.

Two page view is pretty much essential. You can't get away with this without a high DPI display or huge monitor so I have to pick the former.



Edit: also once you get used to High DPI screens you can't go back.

[Neomys Sapiens]

FOLLOW UP ON CONTACT ADJUSTMENTS (bd139/med6753 Tek and other)

Here you can see why those 'adjusting pliers' are better suited to the job than a standard needle-nose.
First, they are very thin, so that you can grab a contact even in a mounted contact set.
Second, their shape allows for precise bending aligned with the axis of the contact, so that no diagonal or other mis-adjustment comes into effect. Manufacturers of those are Belzer and Bernstein.

The pictures of the adjusting levers are not the last word on this - I'll try again with some small tripod - especially if someone is interested.
The slots in the tips range from 0.5 to 0.8mm typically. The other end of each tool is of the same size and form, but with opposite orientation. Imagine having a set of contacts before you and accessing them from either left or right. Total length is between 110 to 150mm.

As I said, best to get those from someone who worked extensively with open relays. But while the levers/tensioners seem extinct, the adjusting pliers still can be had from Bernstein, Dreusicke, Pastorino and maybe elsewhere.

[mnementh]

The 'missing sizes' lesson is always taught the hard way. The 'classic' DIN hex screw/nut for M10 is/was 17. (I'm not referring to extra-wide or -slim types) Then came the ISO, which was (and still is) widely ignored in Germany, where the default for M10 is still 17. But the COMECON countries (eastern europe) were quite comitted to the ISO before their breakdown. So, when a western german company ordered fasteners from local czech stock for the machinery they were going to erect in former Czechoslovakia without going into detail, they were supplied with a truckload of M10 fasteners - wrench size 16.
When our mechanics started hollering, I pulled the Friedrich (Technical reference) on them and send them off to buy tools.

You get me wrong... I'm a retired ASE-certified mechanic, with machinist/tool & die making background thanks to my grandfather. I KNOW there is no such thing as a metric size you don't need; I've known it for decades. I also know about the 32nds, 64ths and decimal metric sizes, thank you.

It's all the alleged "tool manufacturers" who've forgotten. Since EVERYTHING comes from Asia now, they seem to be the source of this idiocy. 

mnem
*Kicks Horror Fraught in the nuts just on GP*

[bd139]

FOLLOW UP ON CONTACT ADJUSTMENTS (bd139/med6753 Tek and other)

Here you can see why those 'adjusting pliers' are better suited to the job than a standard needle-nose.
First, they are very thin, so that you can grab a contact even in a mounted contact set.
Second, their shape allows for precise bending aligned with the axis of the contact, so that no diagonal or other mis-adjustment comes into effect. Manufacturers of those are Belzer and Bernstein.

The pictures of the adjusting levers are not the last word on this - I'll try again with some small tripod - especially if someone is interested.
The slots in the tips range from 0.5 to 0.8mm typically. The other end of each tool is of the same size and form, but with opposite orientation. Imagine having a set of contacts before you and accessing them from either left or right. Total length is between 110 to 150mm.

As I said, best to get those from someone who worked extensively with open relays. But while the levers/tensioners seem extinct, the adjusting pliers still can be had from Bernstein, Dreusicke, Pastorino and maybe elsewhere.

Thanks for that. Rather useful. Definitely spot on for adjusting those leaf springs. Currently I crudely use leverage to adjust them i.e. slide a cut off capacitor leg underneath the middle of the arm to raise it, then press gently on the contact end with a pencil with an eraser on it. Some pliers like that would be much better. Will have a look around as I'm sure I've seen some of these. Worst case you could probably bodge some with an angle grinder + dremel.

[mnementh]

That's a good plan as well. I can't really justify an iPad though for personal use.

   Two page view is pretty much essential. You can't get away with this without a high DPI display or huge monitor so I have to pick the former.

Edit: also once you get used to High DPI screens you can't go back.

Two or 3 generations old iPads are $100-200, and there isn't one made that isn't IPS resolution. Even at 50% of battery capacity, they're good for hours of normal use on the workbench. Disable automatic updates, pop a fresh battery in if it gets bulgy. Or buy a slightly newer one with a cracked screen and replace both at the same time for around the same money. Easy-peasy.

I built a 2nd gen 64GB iPad mini for my daughter's special-ed software for less than $80.

mnem
Fuck the flagship models... "good enough" is good enough.

[bd139]

Not a bad idea. Main problem for me though is it’s hard enough managing two devices. Adding another one to the mix means another problem. Plus the main one is my main income generator so it needs a backup really. I’ve just been a lucky cheap arse so far.

SWMBO has an iPad mini and runs her entire business off it.

[bitseeker]

As for having a documentation/schematic computer for the lab, almost any single-board computer and a big monitor should work well. It'd be silent and the computer could be stuck onto the back of the screen to occupy "zero" space.

I've got in the habit of putting the service manual pdf on the cloud and viewing it on my iPad. I can sit it right next to the item I'm working on and it takes up little space.

Yes, good idea. Then you don't even have to be tied to any particular machine.

That's a good plan as well. I can't really justify an iPad though for personal use.

Two page view is pretty much essential. You can't get away with this without a high DPI display or huge monitor so I have to pick the former.

Edit: also once you get used to High DPI screens you can't go back.

I've also contemplated grabbing a big, "dead" TV for next to nothing, fix the power supply, TCON board or whatever, and then hang it on the wall as my lab terminal.

[beanflying]

About to hit my bench PC with a very heavy hammer  Windows 10 has 'magically helped me' by corrupting my administrator privileges (including the hidden admin) 

Media creation tool runs but sits at 0% progress. FU Microsoft!!!!!

[LapTop006]

That's not a bad idea! Unless you are me who does this to chargers (my old X201 workhorse, RIP my favourite laptop ever):

This is why you collect the chargers, as a nice side affect it means you already have one ready most places you go.

I think I've got more ThinkPad chargers (both barrel & rectangle now) than HP power supplies, and I'm not short on those either.

[mnementh]

I've also contemplated grabbing a big, "dead" TV for next to nothing, fix the power supply, TCON board or whatever, and then hang it on the wall as my lab terminal.

https://www.frys.com/product/9401371

I picked up the 40" version of this 4K no-name model for $159 for a client a couple months ago, and then got to take it home after the gig was done. (long story) I ALMOST made it my new monitor. 

But the kids were getting their own room, and the 4K IS nice in OUR bedroom... 

mnem
*twitch... twitch... twitcha-twitch...*

[Neomys Sapiens]

The 'missing sizes' lesson is always taught the hard way. The 'classic' DIN hex screw/nut for M10 is/was 17. (I'm not referring to extra-wide or -slim types) Then came the ISO, which was (and still is) widely ignored in Germany, where the default for M10 is still 17. But the COMECON countries (eastern europe) were quite comitted to the ISO before their breakdown. So, when a western german company ordered fasteners from local czech stock for the machinery they were going to erect in former Czechoslovakia without going into detail, they were supplied with a truckload of M10 fasteners - wrench size 16.
When our mechanics started hollering, I pulled the Friedrich (Technical reference) on them and send them off to buy tools.

You get me wrong... I'm a retired ASE-certified mechanic, with machinist/tool & die making background thanks to my grandfather. I KNOW there is no such thing as a metric size you don't need; I've known it for decades. I also know about the 32nds, 64ths and decimal metric sizes, thank you.

It's all the alleged "tool manufacturers" who've forgotten. Since EVERYTHING comes from Asia now, they seem to be the source of this idiocy. 

mnem
*Kicks Horror Fraught in the nuts just on GP*

Didn't get you wrong. It was a reply on the topic, but not aimed at you.
The standards conundrum does exist on both sides of the ocean, BTW.
The hex nut sizes on UNC..threaded fasteners span mostly over three sizes, which doesn't necessarely mean adjacent ones. And in some sizes there are TWO driver sizes above the normal, because the very flat (like poti nuts) use another oversize opening than the oversize construction type. And there is a still active MIL-STD (or MS-nnnn spec) which diverges from SAE in one or two diameter/head size relations (covers some parts for E/E, could look it up).

And all of the above applies to fasteners and simple parts, as covered in the standards, only. It says NOTHING about parts being an adjustment sleeve, or a captive screw on a lid, as the designer of those can chose the actuation size that he sees fit.
 
The biggest oxymoron in the fastener/tool industry is the (even standardized) german/euro plain open end wrench set. It ranges from 6...22mm. Not much 6mm nuts out there, really! In the main series 6mm corresponds to M3.5, which is listed as obsolescent in most documents. And the tools that bought the tools wonder why they keep slipping on and marring the very common M3 fasteners, as they come with a hex opening of 5.5mm. Therefore the smallest wrench in the most common kits should be 5.5x7, and not 6x7! I pointed that even out to some tool company product people, which looked at each other like totally beflustered and changed the topic. Oh look, there is a polka-dotted pig dancing on the table!

I keep drivers (as blades, as square attachment, as fixed handle and wrench(es)) for 6.5 and 7.5mm routinely, for example. Also Inhex in 1mm and 3.5mm present multiply - both appear in no standard.

The downside of it is that the 'pocket toolkit' suffers the same fate as some famous 'pocketbooks'. The best example is 'Dubbel's Taschenbuch fuer den Maschinenbau', which is a sizeable hard-bound tome of 2000something pages. There is no pocket around to hold it, except the pouch of a giant marsupial maybe. The English edition calls itself 'Handbook of Mechanical Engineering', which is slightly less ridiculous.

So the topic can only be handled in one way:
Orderly! have the driver park the tooling truck next to the T&M trailer, please!
(I suggest converting a large FAUN, or, if none available, an Oshkosh P-15 for that)

[Specmaster]

Speaking as an owner of an Apple iPad Air 1 and a Samsung Galaxy Tab Pro 10.1, I really have to say that the Samsung screen is head and shoulders above the iPad's and the iPads screen is good, but the samsung really owns it. Could I just use either one in place of a proper desktop or laptop, no, in all honesty I could not recommend it.

Apart from the user interface aspect of a proper keyboard and mouse which is something we have become used to over the decades, long before touch screen were around, there is the fact that, certainly with desktop, should anything go wrong, you can easily obtain replacement items to fix the problem and be back up running in next to no time add all, especially if you have a decent computer shop selling components etc locally. If you want to upgrade the CPU then this is again something that you can do quickly and easily, try that with a laptop and impossible with a tablet of any sort.

Size of screen on desktops and laptops (in external mode) can be almost anysize you like as nearly all large screen HD or 4k TV's have a PC input mode. That's particular useful if you're working on a particularly complicated kit and the full schematic cannot be displayed and worked on easily when being squashed down to fit smaller screens, and zooming in, also loses the rest of the schematic from view and then there's constant panning around the screen to follow the circuitry etc, a nightmare. In fact with the large screens available these days it is possible (costly though  ) to have a schematic in front of you that is almost A0 sized.

Using small screen also will of course, and this I know to my own personal cost from years of having to use laptops extensively for work, damages your eyes so then there's the added cost to be factored in of having regular checks and updates to glasses because the screen size has done its damage. 

[xrunner]

Could I just use either one in place of a proper desktop or laptop, no, in all

Who's saying it would replace a "proper desktop"? My comment was for alignments and specific active troubleshooting it's my experience that to have the iPad screen with the alignment steps or schematic right there next to the device works very well. It in no way replaces my desktop ... 

You do realize of course what's on the screen can be magnified at any time.

[mnementh]

(SNIP)It's all the alleged "tool manufacturers" who've forgotten. Since EVERYTHING comes from Asia now, they seem to be the source of this idiocy. 
mnem
*Kicks Horror Fraught in the nuts just on GP*

Didn't get you wrong. It was a reply on the topic, but not aimed at you.
(SNIP)
The biggest oxymoron in the fastener/tool industry is the (even standardized) german/euro plain open end wrench set. It ranges from 6...22mm. Not much 6mm nuts out there, really! In the main series 6mm corresponds to M3.5, which is listed as obsolescent in most documents. And the tools that bought the tools wonder why they keep slipping on and marring the very common M3 fasteners, as they come with a hex opening of 5.5mm. Therefore the smallest wrench in the most common kits should be 5.5x7, and not 6x7! I pointed that even out to some tool company product people, which looked at each other like totally beflustered and changed the topic. Oh look, there is a polka-dotted pig dancing on the table!
(SNIP)
Orderly! have the driver park the tooling truck next to the T&M trailer, please!
(I suggest converting a large FAUN, or, if none available, an Oshkosh P-15 for that)

Gotcha!  Agreed on all points; my grandfather taught me "Use the right tool for the job. If you don't have it or can't get it, MAKE it."


https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-1-2-in-Drive-Torx-and-Hex-Bit-Socket-Set-9-Piece-H2DSMT9PCBSS/301175101

"Oooooh! I don't have one of these..."

Which is how THIS followed me home, just this afternoon... Went in to exchange a broken socket, and Bam! 

https://www.amazon.com/Craftsman-9-42339-Metric-Combination-Ignition/dp/B00065T032

The 4, 4.5, 5 and 5.5mm (and similarly odd 32nd-64th fraction sizes) can usually be found in ignition wrench sets, but to be useful, you have to be willing to grind the outside edges to a usable profile.

Now THERE is an item that should be obsolete... when was the last time you had to replace points in a car? But they still remain a "standard" tool type. 

mnem

[Neomys Sapiens]

The 4, 4.5, 5 and 5.5mm (and similarly odd 32nd-64th fraction sizes) can usually be found in ignition wrench sets, but to be useful, you have to be willing to grind the outside edges to a usable profile.

Now THERE is an item that should be obsolete... when was the last time you had to replace points in a car? But they still remain a "standard" tool type. 

mnem

Not quite only in the ignition wrenches (and not all of those are bad). Standard precision mechanic's wrenches (15°/75°) and liliput combination wrenches go down to 3mm. 4mm is regular M2, 5mm is M2.5. Bernstein has an affordable kit, which is also very thin. Also Elora, Stahlwille, Dreusicke.
In your place, Moody should cover it.
ISO goes down to 2.5mm for a thread size of M1. My nutdrivers go down to 1.5mm hex (outside), which can be found in watches and micromechanics, but not under a major standard.

[Brumby]

when was the last time you had to replace points in a car? But they still remain a "standard" tool type. 

1983 - Datsun 180B with a Lucas (bleahh) dizzy - which failed a year later when the bottom plate for the centrifugal advance slipped around the shaft.  That was an interesting roadside repair using vicegrips.  Upgraded to a Bosch () unit a week later.

[Cubdriver]

Yes, in fact, I put the second one on top of there this morning. Nice and stable.

You mean the readings or the meter. 

Good luck on the repairs. 

Well, we all know he certainly didn't mean the purchaser!!   

-Pat

[bitseeker]

Me? Unstable? Only when there's a score with Buy It Now or during the last 5 seconds of an auction.

[tautech]

Anyone want a cute little single channel Tek 222 ?

https://www.trademe.co.nz/electronics-photography/other-electronics/other/listing-1858530061.htm?rsqid=5d6ceab5c2874125ba340587ef1f11ed

[med6753]

Anyone want a cute little single channel Tek 222 ?

https://www.trademe.co.nz/electronics-photography/other-electronics/other/listing-1858530061.htm?rsqid=5d6ceab5c2874125ba340587ef1f11ed

That's about $69 USD. Good price. But shipping from NZ? Yikes! 

[bd139]

I would be very wary. Not shown powered up and probes not shown as well. Probes for these are hard wired.

[Cerebus]

When our mechanics started hollering, I pulled the Friedrich (Technical reference) on them and send them off to buy tools.

You're going to have to explain that one.

I'm off to Düsseldorf next week and walking into a situation where *cough* technical German idioms (even if said in English) might be only too useful.