Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Zucca]

Wow, this is page 700, the centuries sure roll by real quick on this thread don't they, on average we're doing 32 pages a month. Sometimes we can get through a few pages over a weekend if anyone is doing anything interesting or of course it may be a lot of that infamous water cooler chatter about life in general, the sort of chat thats normal over a pint in the pub if that was our meeting location. .

[tautech]

@bd139
Member dazz1 contacted me about a scope as his PM3217 is concerning him.
Would you care to share some pearls of wisdom about them ?
TIA

Yep go for it 

Nah mate, preventative maintenance, recapping, any gotchas etc.

[bd139]

Doh half asleep

Yes. Replace the big blue Philips caps on the power supply board secondary as when they go short they burn out the transformer, the RIFA in the back of the unit (it's behind a bit of FR4 on the back panel) or just snip it out. If there is anything front with any of the switches on the front panel then WD40 contact cleaner (not the blue stuff) works nicely. The only killer on these is if the vertical attenuators are shot as they are nigh on impossible to get out.

99% of problems with them are blue axial Philips caps though or the RIFA exploding

[shakalnokturn]

Kyoritsu Kew Mate 2001
https://www.kew-ltd.co.jp/files/en/manual/2000-2001_IM_92-1507E_E_L.pdf
Cute little current fork, too cheap, not far enough to resist...

The leads will need some attention sooner or later.
I didn't find the courage to remove the LCD and look under there, it does not use a black-blob I.C., I counted 30 pins on the visible side of the TQFP.
Any clue to the one used in here?

[tggzzz]

If you are a British driver and passed a UK manual car test before 1st Jan 97 you get class C1 'grandfathered' onto your license as the UK driving categories used to include that. (There are some other minor classes grandfathered in as well ).

My driving licence is in the form of a pink piece of paper without a photograph, valid until 4 years after statutory retirement age.

Pink?  My UK licence, which was issued in 1979, is a piece of green paper and also has no photo... claims to expire in 2031.   After getting a WA state license in 1986, it's been gathering dust.

It changes when you inform DVLA of a change of address. I haven't moved since the 80s.

[tggzzz]

If you are a British driver and passed a UK manual car test before 1st Jan 97 you get class C1 'grandfathered' onto your license as the UK driving categories used to include that. (There are some other minor classes grandfathered in as well ).

My driving licence is in the form of a pink piece of paper without a photograph, valid until 4 years after statutory retirement age.

I explicitly checked with Enterprise and read the regulations, and as far as I can tell it was acceptable.

Yeh, mine is the new card type and also expires after 4 years past official retiring age, Dec 2019. I assume that means that we will have to be assessed and past another test then, as I seem to recall that was the plan to ensure us old codgers aren't going to drive on the wrong track of dual carriageways etc [emoji23]

I don't think so, but it might change. My 97yo mother renews hers every 3 years simply by declaring that she is fit to drive. Now she hasn't driven for ~7 years and has no intention of driving, but it is occasionally useful as photo id.

[bd139]

Insurance stats are pushing for change in that area. Lots of high profile and cost accidents on age 70+. Problem is it's an unpopular change. Age groups in descending order of risk: 20-29, 80+, 16-19, 70-79 are the most dangerous groups. Guess who wrote some of that risk profiling

Edit: annoyingly they aren't allowed to do gender profiling on risk so this covers both male and female accidents. From the raw statistical data, which is unpublished, women over the age of 60 are the most dangerous people on the road. They are most claimed against for hit and runs as well.

@shakalnokturn: thanks for teardown. I love how you can spot Japanese gear a mile away 

[med6753]

That's interesting. Does it come back or get worse at high sweep speeds?

Nope, no change even at high sweep speeds. It's currently rock solid. I even gave it X10 sweep boost and it's fine. 

Hmmm...

Have you tried heat applied to components in the suspect circuit? Alternately, cold spray from an inverted can of canned air.

I don't think the issue is heat related because it occurs right at power up. I do have freeze spray but I'm very reluctant to use it in that area. Too near HV and the freeze spray once it condenses forms droplets. Hilarity will ensue I'm sure. Not a good idea.

I put the Siglent DSO to good use and I did manage to find the retrace pulse to the CRT grid on the Z Axis board. This is a “good” pulse. The scope is functioning normally. If and when it goes south again I have a starting point. Probe that point again and see what the pulse looks like and take it from there. 


Since I had the knickers down (covers off) I figured I might as well take some superfluous pron shots. Enjoy! 

The Horizontal Board. All discrete components unlike bd139's 7603 which is IC.


Vertical Board under the Horizontal Board.


Z-Axis Board on top of the HV case. In the back is the Regulator Board with the -50V reference adjustment pot on the top right. Just under that is the linear power supply and transformer. BTW, this scope has no fan. Some 7603's do and some don't. Seems Tek couldn't make up it's mind if one was really needed.


Towards the front is the Calibrator Board.   

[bd139]

Interesting stuff. I need to tear mine down and do some pr0n shots too.

Mine has a fan. It pumps out some pretty warm air so I assume it needs it. Going to keep me snuggly this winter 

Actually considering getting another one. If I can get my current one with the 7L12 in it and a 7D14 counter in it and another mainframe with a 7A26, 7B53 and 7D13 DMM that would be a very cool bench set up. Just add a TM500 on top of the two with a couple of power supplies, a levelled RF generator in it and a whole pile of awesome.

Edit: and a house where I can have a 1.5m depth bench 

[med6753]

Interesting stuff. I need to tear mine down and do some pr0n shots too.

Mine has a fan. It pumps out some pretty warm air so I assume it needs it. Going to keep me snuggly this winter 

It gets damn warm on the backside and I'm sure mine could benefit if it had a fan.

Actually considering getting another one. If I can get my current one with the 7L12 in it and a 7D14 counter in it and another mainframe with a 7A26, 7B53 and 7D13 DMM that would be a very cool bench set up. Just add a TM500 on top of the two with a couple of power supplies, a levelled RF generator in it and a whole pile of awesome.

Edit: and a house where I can have a 1.5m depth bench 

Build a cart like I did. 

[bd139]

The cart is a good plan. I'm eternally impressed with yours

I might have to disguise it as furniture though   

[med6753]

The cart is a good plan. I'm eternally impressed with yours

I might have to disguise it as furniture though   

As far as I'm concerned mine passes for furniture. But I kinda doubt it would pass the SWMBO test.   

[mnementh]

(SNIP)
@shakalnokturn: thanks for teardown. I love how you can spot Japanese gear a mile away 

Yeah, there's an attention to detail... and yet, it's a different kind of attention, a different ethic compared to what you see from Tek, or Fluke, etc.

My inbox has been collecting a fair amount of adverts for Kyoritsu insulation testers; evidently they're a solid alternative to Megger, or at least their distributors would like you to think so.

Wow, this is page 700, the centuries sure roll by real quick on this thread don't they, on average we're doing 32 pages a month. Sometimes we can get through a few pages over a weekend if anyone is doing anything interesting or of course it may be a lot of that infamous water cooler chatter about life in general, the sort of chat thats normal over a pint in the pub if that was our meeting location. .

"Sometimes you just wanna go where everybody knows your na-a-ame..."

Hmmm...  Have you tried heat applied to components in the suspect circuit? Alternately, cold spray from an inverted can of canned air.

I don't think the issue is heat related because it occurs right at power up. I do have freeze spray but I'm very reluctant to use it in that area. Too near HV and the freeze spray once it condenses forms droplets. Hilarity will ensue I'm sure. Not a good idea.
   I put the Siglent DSO to good use and I did manage to find the retrace pulse to the CRT grid on the Z Axis board. This is a “good” pulse. The scope is functioning normally. If and when it goes south again I have a starting point. Probe that point again and see what the pulse looks like and take it from there. 

Good point on location vs freeze-juice... though heat could still help you locate a flaky connection or component; it's not necessarily the kind of stress, but the fact of stress sometimes. I remember you said you tried poking and flexing the board; have you removed it and looked for rings? Or are you just at that "Annoyed, but not annoyed enough to actually take it apart." stage?

mnem
"TEA was filmed before a live studio audience."

[capt bullshot]

Edit: and a house where I can have a 1.5m depth bench 

No need for such a bench. Just add shelves off appropriate depth.

[med6753]

Hmmm...  Have you tried heat applied to components in the suspect circuit? Alternately, cold spray from an inverted can of canned air.

I don't think the issue is heat related because it occurs right at power up. I do have freeze spray but I'm very reluctant to use it in that area. Too near HV and the freeze spray once it condenses forms droplets. Hilarity will ensue I'm sure. Not a good idea.
   I put the Siglent DSO to good use and I did manage to find the retrace pulse to the CRT grid on the Z Axis board. This is a “good” pulse. The scope is functioning normally. If and when it goes south again I have a starting point. Probe that point again and see what the pulse looks like and take it from there. 

Good point on location vs freeze-juice... though heat could still help you locate a flaky connection or component; it's not necessarily the kind of stress, but the fact of stress sometimes. I remember you said you tried poking and flexing the board; have you removed it and looked for rings? Or are you just at that "Annoyed, but not annoyed enough to actually take it apart." stage?

mnem
"TEA was filmed before a live studio audience."

If and when it does come back I will be suitably annoyed enough to pull the board and check for cold /cracked solder joints.

[med6753]

Edit: and a house where I can have a 1.5m depth bench 

No need for such a bench. Just add shelves off appropriate depth.

I like your setup. 

[mnementh]

China Infiltrated Apple, Amazon and Other US Companies Using Spy Chips on SuperMicro Servers

https://it.slashdot.org/story/18/10/04/1339233/

Holy fucking asscrackers... We've been warning you all that this was coming; here it came and went 3 years ago and we're JUST NOW finding out.   

Fucking business as usual...

mnem
 

[Cerebus]

As far as I'm concerned mine passes for furniture. But I kinda doubt it was pass the SWMBO test. 

You could try adding ball and claw feet, claim it as an antique? (Or steampunk, or a mnem playing soccer aesthetic.)

[bd139]

https://it.slashdot.org/story/18/10/04/1339233/

Holy fucking asscrackers... We've been warning you all that this was coming; here it came and went 3 years ago and we're JUST NOW finding out.   

Fucking business as usual...

I think this is steaming bullshit. See thread here https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/chinese-manufacturer-puts-hardware-backdoor-onto-supermicro-server-boards/msg1869179/

[mnementh]

https://it.slashdot.org/story/18/10/04/1339233/

Holy fucking asscrackers... We've been warning you all that this was coming; here it came and went 3 years ago and we're JUST NOW finding out.   

Fucking business as usual...

I think this is steaming bullshit. See thread here https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/chinese-manufacturer-puts-hardware-backdoor-onto-supermicro-server-boards/msg1869179/

Fair enough... but on the flip side, everybody who's denying has huge reason to lie about it. None of them can afford to admit they were hacked THIS easily, though the nature of big business tells you that it's entirely possible. Inevitable, really. Just like all those routers with a back-door built-in. Sure it was accidental...

Actual oversight requires paying actual money to actual people who know what the fuck they're doing. Everything that modern business is all about works towards eliminating those kinds of people, and reduces the ones who remain to screaming in the wind like Cassandra when they DO find something heinously dangerous.

I'll believe it when the inevitable class-action suits come out... of course by then, the truth will have already been rewritten anyways...

mnem
I wish it were mere cynicism.

[mnementh]

If and when it does come back I will be suitably annoyed enough to pull the board and check for cold /cracked solder joints.

"Annoyed, but not annoyed enough to actually take it apart." it is then. I understand, and grok in fullness. 

As far as I'm concerned mine passes for furniture. But I kinda doubt it was pass the SWMBO test. 

You could try adding ball and claw feet, claim it as an antique? (Or steampunk, or a mnem playing soccer aesthetic.)

I find this notion amusing, interesting, and horrifying all at the same time... 

mnem
*Gallummmmph...galllummmmph... sqwish opponent into the dirt... galllummmmmph... galllummmmmph... FWOOOOOOOOOOM!!! - fireball clears path... Kick... GOALLLL!!!* "RAAAAAAHHHHH!!!"

[med6753]

https://it.slashdot.org/story/18/10/04/1339233/

Holy fucking asscrackers... We've been warning you all that this was coming; here it came and went 3 years ago and we're JUST NOW finding out.   

Fucking business as usual...

I think this is steaming bullshit. See thread here https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/chinese-manufacturer-puts-hardware-backdoor-onto-supermicro-server-boards/msg1869179/

Maybe, maybe not. Here's an interesting tidbit. As you know when IBM got out of the PC business they sold everything lock, stock, and barrel to the Chinese company Lenovo. Since then IBM and Lenovo have had a fairly close relationship. For example....need PC's or laptop's for offices? 9 times out 10 Lenovo was purchased. Up until about 2 years ago the SE's (Service Elements) for the Z-Series mainframes were built by Lenovo. One day that suddenly changed and they are now sourced from a U.S. based company who's name escapes at the moment. There have been persistent and unconfirmed rumors that this was requested by the Feds. So...that's all I know and have heard. Related to this stuff? Who can say.

[bd139]

Just remember Cisco had a massive problem with US gov intercept and implant. Some of the worst problems are at home under the five eyes.

[Specmaster]

Edit: and a house where I can have a 1.5m depth bench 

No need for such a bench. Just add shelves off appropriate depth.

Wow that sure looks neat, first shelf could have a tad lower though to line up with the bench top

[bd139]

I didn't see that reply before. Perfect!

That gap is perfect. Just big enough for bits of BNC connector to roll away and disappear