Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Neomys Sapiens]

zSeries. Kill me. Had a client a while ago that had DB2 on zSeries. Not sure why. Someone had sold them it. They were replacing it with postgres on RHEL with the same JBoss/RHEL front end. We joked that the entire migration cost less than a zSeries power cable

I have to admit that I did have to google this. Initially I thought that you were referring to Zilog products (Z8/Z80/Z280..). I did not know that Big Blue built a mainframe after the 390.

But FICON gave me a chuckle. Because of....well, FICON.
Maybe the world should have a rule against the reuse of unlucky acronyms.

[Wolfgang]

I dont know if it has already happened but I think the z machine production numbers will drop down to a level where manufacturing all the specialized Silicon does not pay off anymore. Maybe what they sell you as a z machine is just an bunch of i7s emulating it ?

UNISYS (another vintage mainframe company probably long out of business now) did exactly that. They sold you a Dell Server with an emulator program and they implemented a throttle so the emulator would run only twice as fast as the original hardware and not 20 times as it would originally.

[mnementh]

They are spot on. Just damn expensive and the entry cost is insane. People have moved from zero downtime to architectures that support downtime and survive partial failure now. Much cheaper

Expensive? Yes. Zero downtime? Many customers demand it. And the Z-series has multiple redundancies where it can keep running after a major failure AND keep running while being repaired. And that includes a processor fail although degraded. Even the power is 100% redundant and switches over with no interruption, as long as there's no loss of house power. But to avoid that customers can option for safe battery backup for secure shutdown. 

And as far as running legacy applications going back even to S/360. Yep, it can run them. Again, many customers demand that. Unlike Mircosoft IBM DOES listen to it's customers....most of the time. 

Why am I envisioning THESE two right now? 

mnem
*Fault-tolerent*

[med6753]

I dont know if it has already happened but I think the z machine production numbers will drop down to a level where manufacturing all the specialized Silicon does not pay off anymore. Maybe what they sell you as a z machine is just an bunch of i7s emulating it ?

UNISYS (another vintage mainframe company probably long out of business now) did exactly that. They sold you a Dell Server with an emulator program and they implemented a throttle so the emulator would run only twice as fast as the original hardware and not 20 times as it would originally.

Absolutely and totally incorrect. Get an i7 to run (reliably) at 5.2 to 5.5 GHz. Don't think so.

[Wolfgang]

Clock speed is just *one* component of your MIPS rating. I guess an i7 outperforms a z CPU by far, even running half the clock rate. Pipelining, caching, multiprocessing, external bus connections ...  are equally important. Why is none of todays supercomputers made with z CPUs ? Z stuff is to run old software, mainly.

[mnementh]

All this talk of software and keypads and idiotic design features makes me want to quote myself. Life is shit, all of it, some things more than others some less but it is all shit and life is just an everswirling toilet that JUST  WON'T  FLUSH! 

Sometimes i wonder if all life is inherently meaningless, incapable of anything except reverting to pain and that if we all are just biding our time waiting for the sweet release of death. Then i leave the lab and go read a book, or build something, or literally anything that doesn't involve software.... that usually solves the problem at least temporarily.

Looks like neo took the Red pill AND the Blue pill... 

Welcome to hell, buddy. There's cold Dew in the fridge right next to the leftover breakfast tacos. The everything bagels are MINE.

mnem
You are welcome to roam freely... my secrets guard themselves.

[med6753]

Clock speed is just *one* component of your MIPS rating. I guess an i7 outperforms a z CPU by far, even running half the clock rate. Pipelining, caching, multiprocessing, external bus connections ...  are equally important. Why is none of todays supercomputers made with z CPUs ? Z stuff is to run old software, mainly.

I don't know enough about the internal workings of a i7 vs a Z CPU so I can't say if your assessment is valid or not. 

[Wolfgang]

Just been on their (uninformative regarding architecture and performance statements) website. I dont think the even try to make a performance argument. Its all about safety, encryption, mission critical, ... People with this in mind are less performance and money sensitive. Banks, and the government is what is left.

[mnementh]

I dont know if it has already happened but I think the z machine production numbers will drop down to a level where manufacturing all the specialized Silicon does not pay off anymore. Maybe what they sell you as a z machine is just an bunch of i7s emulating it ?

UNISYS (another vintage mainframe company probably long out of business now) did exactly that. They sold you a Dell Server with an emulator program and they implemented a throttle so the emulator would run only twice as fast as the original hardware and not 20 times as it would originally.

Absolutely and totally incorrect. Get an i7 to run (reliably) at 5.2 to 5.5 GHz. Don't think so.

A couple of my regular clients are stock trading companies that make their profit on the uptick/downtick; essentially by having fast, fat pipes and fast processors in their servers, they can buy and sell a few milliseconds faster than most, and that's where their profit is.

Their servers are all i7 processors on ASUS OC/Gamer boards with redundant power, modular liquid cooling and 32GB of the fastest RAM they can get. These run constantly with an OC profile at 5GHz or higher on various stock markets. The processors grenade frequently enough that I get 2-6 tickets a month from them; obviously there is failure there, but for them it's cost-effective to just keep a few servers idling as redundant fail-safes in a distributed computing datacenter.

Point being; there's more than one approach to reliability.

mnem
*Off my runner*

[bitseeker]

Wow, in the last six pages, you guys probably touched on just about every way that products (both hardware and software), and the companies that fail at their design, annoy me. I agree that it's hopeless because, more often than not, "new" and "different" have higher priority than excellence and usability.

In order to avoid rehashing what's already been rehashed, basically, most things suck, just in different ways. Even halo brands aren't as good as their marketing departments purport them to be. So, you're relegated to choosing whichever devices, programs, appliances, etc. suck the least for your use cases or budget.

It is fun to occasionally rant about them, though, just to stay sane.

Oh, yeah, and I can't wait until the current storm of "AI will change the world" and "AI will kill us all" blows over. It seems to stir up every couple of decades and then fade, yet again, into the shadows.

[bd139]

Everything sucks.

Talking of which I just rigged up a whole pile of crap to measure return loss on an RF amplifer I have built. Looks like someone puked snakes all over the bench. I can see now why people like VNAs. Now I want a VNA.

Anyone need a kidney? Will swap for VNA 

[Mr. Scram]

A couple of my regular clients are stock trading companies that make their profit on the uptick/downtick; essentially by having fast, fat pipes and fast processors in their servers, they can buy and sell a few milliseconds faster than most, and that's where their profit is.

Their servers are all i7 processors on ASUS OC/Gamer boards with redundant power, modular liquid cooling and 32GB of the fastest RAM they can get. These run constantly with an OC profile at 5GHz or higher on various stock markets. The processors grenade frequently enough that I get 2-6 tickets a month from them; obviously there is failure there, but for them it's cost-effective to just keep a few servers idling as redundant fail-safes in a distributed computing datacenter.

Point being; there's more than one approach to reliability.

mnem
*Off my runner*

Using consumer hardware and accepting defects seems par for the newer player course now. Google does it, some satellite builders do it and SpaceX does it.

[bitseeker]

... basically, most things suck, just in different ways.

Everything sucks.

Yeah, I was trying to stay positive.

Talking of which I just rigged up a whole pile of crap to measure return loss on an RF amplifer I have built. Looks like someone puked snakes all over the bench. I can see now why people like VNAs. Now I want a VNA.

Anyone need a kidney? Will swap for VNA 

Sorry. My kidney slots are already fully loaded.

[Wolfgang]

over they years, as a consumer, you develop something like a "buzzword firewall". You dont register words like "user interaction experience", "cloud intelligence based ",  "artificial intelligence based decision making" anymore. Your fridge, your toothbrush, your coffee machine, every little gadget now wants to be helpful in collecting personal data as much as possible, but in fact the modern generation of IOT things still lacks a "killer app" that has a recognizable added value. Moreover, all the new networked stuff is pogrammed in an immense hurry and is most likely just a collection of security holes and software bugs. Not tragic, because the indended limfetime is just one day longer than the warranty period.

My recipe:
- play dumb. Buy the simplest product that does the job, but has acceptable quality and is robust. Ask for stuff for senior people, if nothing else helps
- let your stuff communicate on a strict "need to know" basis. Internet for your toothbrush ? Rather not.
- Put your entertainment stuff behind a firewall and in a separate LAN segment.
- Disable spyware wherever you can. TV needs a camera to look at you ? Your lamp app in your mobile needs access to your contacts ? Come on !
- A web app wants all kinds of data before letting you read some documents ? Let your phantasy roam freely ...

For T&M Eqipment:
- Unless you desparately need to, *never* buy stuff that has been on the market for less than 2 years.
- Only buy where a reasonable customer base exists and reviews were friendly.
- *always* make hands on tests before you buy (a week minimum for a complex unit like a VNA)
- always look at more than one vendor
- negotiate hard, but fair. Its a lot easier if your testing was thorough and you got some arguments in your hands.

[Wolfgang]

Get one from DG8SAQ. You probably can keep your kidney, then.
And yes, life with a VNA is different.

[neo]

Looks like neo took the Red pill AND the Blue pill... 

Welcome to hell, buddy. There's cold Dew in the fridge right next to the leftover breakfast tacos. The everything bagels are MINE.

mnem
You are welcome to roam freely... my secrets guard themselves.

To be fair i don't even know which pill i took, some scientist going by the name of Rick handed me a large handful worth and knowing how trustworthy he is i just swallowed the lot. I figured, worst case scenario the result just had to be better than this crazy little thing called life

Wonder where Morty was...

[med6753]

Since we've brought it up here's a fully configured IBM Z-Series Z14. This one has all the bells and whistles and will set you back a cool $30M plus USD to buy outright. I've only seen maybe 3 or 4 fully configured this way. Most have fewer features. I'll go through what you're looking at.

Starting  left frame top. 2 backup batteries. Below that are 6 bulk supplies. A redundant 6 on the backside. The system operates on 480V 3 phase. Below that where all those cables meet are the power controllers. A redundant set on the backside. And below that are 4 I/O cages, which also extend to the backside. Most customers order majority fiber I/O cards with some mix of copper.

That LCD panel with keyboard is for servicing. It is normally retracted into the frame. And there is a redundant LCD panel/keyboard behind it.

Starting right frame top. 2 system controllers called “System Elements” or SE's. A primary and hot backup. They are basically a PC running an IBM modified form of red-hat with a unique GUI. They are what's connected to those LCD panels. Below that is another backup battery and another I/O cage. Below that are the processor drawers. There are 4 of them in this machine, the maximum. The minimum is 1 drawer. They are water and air cooled. Below that are chillers/pumps for the water. A primary and backup. In this configuration it is a stand alone closed looped system. No “house” chilled water is needed. But a customer can order a cheaper pump system that does need chilled water for heat exchange.   

[bitseeker]

Wowzers. I like the fold-flat retractable screen and keyboard.

[Mr. Scram]

over they years, as a consumer, you develop something like a "buzzword firewall". You dont register words like "user interaction experience", "cloud intelligence based ",  "artificial intelligence based decision making" anymore. Your fridge, your toothbrush, your coffee machine, every little gadget now wants to be helpful in collecting personal data as much as possible, but in fact the modern generation of IOT things still lacks a "killer app" that has a recognizable added value. Moreover, all the new networked stuff is pogrammed in an immense hurry and is most likely just a collection of security holes and software bugs. Not tragic, because the indended limfetime is just one day longer than the warranty period.

My recipe:
- play dumb. Buy the simplest product that does the job, but has acceptable quality and is robust. Ask for stuff for senior people, if nothing else helps
- let your stuff communicate on a strict "need to know" basis. Internet for your toothbrush ? Rather not.
- Put your entertainment stuff behind a firewall and in a separate LAN segment.
- Disable spyware wherever you can. TV needs a camera to look at you ? Your lamp app in your mobile needs access to your contacts ? Come on !
- A web app wants all kinds of data before letting you read some documents ? Let your phantasy roam freely ...

For T&M Eqipment:
- Unless you desparately need to, *never* buy stuff that has been on the market for less than 2 years.
- Only buy where a reasonable customer base exists and reviews were friendly.
- *always* make hands on tests before you buy (a week minimum for a complex unit like a VNA)
- always look at more than one vendor
- negotiate hard, but fair. Its a lot easier if your testing was thorough and you got some arguments in your hands.

One of the problems is that it's often hard to find out whether something calls the mothership or not. Items come with apps and it's completely opaque what data gets sent where. The fact that this isn't clearly labelled tells me that very few customers are asking the right questions. I often go through lengths to find out and still end up without any conclusion. The same applies to apps without products attached to them, though it's probably safe to assume that anything requiring an account is definitely shipping your data out.

[xrunner]

Wowzers. I like the fold-flat retractable screen and keyboard.

Jeepers ... can you plug that thing into an outlet strip?

[Wolfgang]

In case you have enough time for that you can put all the nosy or potentially nosy crap behind a firewall and log who is trying to talk to whom.

[Wolfgang]

30M is impressive for a CPU cluster like this one. How many are sold each year ?

[Mr. Scram]

In case you have enough time for that you can put all the nosy or potentially nosy crap behind a firewall and log who is trying to talk to whom.

I could, but I'm not sure how it'd help me. I've have to buy it first which reinforces the bad behaviour, and cutting the network connection typically means having a non functioning device.

[Wolfgang]

Well, for your IOT toothbrush, coffee machine, toaster, ... a little internet austerity will be no problem. 
.. and for the media stuff you could enable access, but could still track to whom it talks to.

[bitseeker]

My recipe:
- play dumb. Buy the simplest product that does the job, but has acceptable quality and is robust. Ask for stuff for senior people, if nothing else helps
- let your stuff communicate on a strict "need to know" basis. Internet for your toothbrush ? Rather not.
- Put your entertainment stuff behind a firewall and in a separate LAN segment.
- Disable spyware wherever you can. TV needs a camera to look at you ? Your lamp app in your mobile needs access to your contacts ? Come on !
- A web app wants all kinds of data before letting you read some documents ? Let your phantasy roam freely ...

One of the problems is that it's often hard to find out whether something calls the mothership or not.

Yeah, most of my stuff is non-smart and not Internet-enabled. I generally avoid "smart" products because they simply aren't. I guess you could say I'm taking the UNIX approach to everyday products: each one does a particular thing satisfactorily and doesn't try to do everything. I hate things that try to be smart — they just aren't.

For T&M Eqipment:
- Unless you desparately need to, *never* buy stuff that has been on the market for less than 2 years.
- Only buy where a reasonable customer base exists and reviews were friendly.
- *always* make hands on tests before you buy (a week minimum for a complex unit like a VNA)
- always look at more than one vendor
- negotiate hard, but fair. Its a lot easier if your testing was thorough and you got some arguments in your hands.

Fortunately, my T&M needs are no where near requiring stuff that's even two years new. Hence, there's plenty to choose from among the survivors.