Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Mr. Scram]

just wanted to say thanks to the anonymous contributor who suggested saving the clipped off leads from thru the hole components.

at the time it seemed a silly thing to do...…..but what the hell...….. these tea reprobates had never steered me wrong before.

holy shit balls.  seems like twice a day a use appears for one of the little bastards.  the only down side is that swmbo looked in the coffee cup they are kept in, gave me the stink eye, and walked away in a state.  (guess she wanted the cup back).

anyhow.....THANKS!

ps  hey neo.....that is one manly bench.  looks like a whole herd of cats could not knock anything off it.

Apologies. We should've warned you that the cup is only there for The Ritual Pissing Off of The Misses.

[mnementh]

It's here because this is where our friends are, and we tolerate a certain level of OT here. In all honesty, we find "OT Nazi-ing" generally much more offensive than a page or two of OT.

It is in large part that tolerance which has made this one of the most popular threads on the server.

Cheers,

mnem
*Off. Slightly.*

Yet you don't set the rules and monsanto is way out there. there is off topic and total diversion! at least stick loosely to the topic.

I'll take this to PM, which is where xrunner should have taken it rather than bothering you.

Cheers,

mnem
This is conversation, not a contest.

[GreyWoolfe]

1. My in-laws are coming over tomorrow so I could avoid the plague ridden wretched meat popsicles.

What in hell's bells is a meat popsicle?   On second thought, maybe I don't wanna know.

[med6753]

In order to help us get back on track I volunteer to post some TEA pron. I'm up to my elbows in Tek 2465 DMS. The fan motor has developed a death screech. So I have to go in and pull it out and see if I can save it with a clean/lube. But that means tearing down the entire scope and pulling the power supply. No easy task with a fully optioned 2465. I will be posting the entire procedure in the 2465B teardown thread but here's some teaser shots. Now let's everyone be good and enjoy the pron. 

This is the underside of the top plate with the Counter/Trigger board in front and Buffer Board behind it.


The DMM board.


Top plate removed and power supply exposed and ready to pull.

[mnementh]

DP832...    But it's half the price of Keysight.

Only if you must have a new device.

Also the number buttons - wtf? Did Sony have a hand in that design?

Yeah, Rigol works really hard to make their stuff as "different" as possible.

In some cases... half the price is still no bargain.

And funny that you mention Sony... because indirectly, they may very well have been partly responsible.

Long before Apple made headlines with their clearly legitimate lawsuit against Samsung over "Trade Dress" in regards their products, Sony had made a reputation in household consumer electronics as being aggressively litigious for exactly the same thing; first for the entire concept of "portable music player" and the "xyzMan" line of products, but also even going so far as claiming rights to the general block diagram layout of optical drive on left, display in the middle, and controls on the right that most CD/DVD/BR Players exhibit.

I wonder if Rigol's "unique" industrial design is predicated as much on deliberately avoiding the cost of such litigation as it is an attempt at market differentiation? Maybe they felt it just wasn't worth taking a chance that one of the big guys would sure them for looking too much alike... or maybe even claim they were attempting to counterfeit their products. Or worse, yet, maybe they've already suffered such litigation...

My personal opinion...? "There's a reason nobody else uses that design... it sucks." 

That should be a REQUIRED design litmus test for ANY piece of equipment a human being has to use...

mnem
*On. Slightly.*

[Wolfgang]

If people have nothing really important to say, they give lenghty speeches about design and aesthetic aspects. Everybody is competent there. Fascinating ...

[mnementh]

This thread has degenerated into a poor version of Twatter, with messages akin to "my parcel is coming up the driveway" and similar.

Does that make us a collection of twats?

Even apart from the recent, um, deviation, given the nominal subject of this thread most people would think we are a collection of twats.

Who cares what others think, we are a collection of friendly knowledgeable people who sometimes like to jockey for the last word or be 100% correct which can sometimes get out of hand. But it always comes back to the central theme that bonds us and in the process we learn something new. Is that any different to what would happen if we all met in a pub, no, natural conversations are wide and diverse that's life. If someone has something that is on topic, they are not prevented in any way from posting it are they? All of these OT discussions die out when there is a more interesting post to read and comment on, always has in the past and I see no reason why the same will not be true in the future [emoji4]

Agreed. Especially for those whose primary contribution to the thread is complaints about the subject matter. 

1. My in-laws are coming over tomorrow so I could avoid the plague ridden wretched meat popsicles.

What in hell's bells is a meat popsicle?   On second thought, maybe I don't wanna know.

mnem
*Kicks the horse one last time*

[bd139]

One of the best films ever IMHO.

And now for something completely different.

CPC's second attempt turned up this morning so test gear project time. A noise source for spectrum analyser. Dead simple circuit. Zener reference and three stages of amplification, neatly stolen from K7QO (google it if you want the schematic) following the mantra of "try something that already works before reinventing a wheel". Decided to do it properly this time so it's in a nice little Hammond box. This only took an hour to put together entirely which was even better:

Looks relatively un-shit for a change:



Gubbins. 2N2222's looking sexy:



And the important bit. The output. This is connected to a relatively naff 5 pole 40m (7MHz) low pass filter inside a Norcal 40A transmitter. 40dB down at the first harmonic. Good show. Resolution turned down here, narrow filter and video filter on to get rid of the noise and give us a nice plot.



Note: the impedance of the output is not 50 ohms. I couldn't measure it accurately. If you build one, put a 3-6dB attenuator in series with the output. I might do that anyway inside it later today. There's a 20dB one you can't see attached to it in the above picture.

It's soooooo nice have an SA. This might tip the boat on a DSA815-TG

[mnementh]

In order to help us get back on track I volunteer to post some TEA pron. I'm up to my elbows in Tek 2465 DMS. The fan motor has developed a death screech. So I have to go in and pull it out and see if I can save it with a clean/lube. But that means tearing down the entire scope and pulling the power supply. No easy task with a fully optioned 2465. I will be posting the entire procedure in the 2465B teardown thread but here's some teaser shots. Now let's everyone be good and enjoy the pron. 

This is the underside of the top plate with the Counter/Trigger board in front and Buffer Board behind it.
The DMM board.   Top plate removed and power supply exposed and ready to pull.   

   Mmmm... yummy. I did this exact job on the Seimens motor in my 2230 about 10 years ago. IIRC, I cheated and did NOT unwind the motor; rather electing to remove the thrust bearing/set screw, then a couple squirts of CRC 03040 Food Grade silicone spray as cleaner in each end, ran the armature chucked up in a drill for a couple minutes, then a couple more squirts to carry away the stuff that broke loose.

After that, I let the motor sit overnight with a fan to be sure all the alcohol from the silicone spray had evaporated, and then several drops of 0W-30 full synthetic motor oil, work the shaft back & forth and let it wick in, then a several drops again in each end as an attempt to re-saturate the batting around the bushings. Evidently it was successful; ten years later the one thing that doesn't have a problem in my 2230 is the fan.

Did you get the collet-clamp on the squirrelcage free in one piece? My experience is that this is a losing battle... even ones I know I got free a few years ago were discovered broken in-use later.

IIRC, the fan on my 2230 (or maybe it was one of my 2465s) is just held on by friction; I left the broken piece off, then put a nylon washer on the motor shaft. Then I put the the cone portion onto the shaft and pressed the fan in place with moderate force so everything bottomed out against the motor while holding it inside the 'scope. I tried pulling it off and it was on there much tighter than the press-fit most such fans are equipped with; and so far, it has not worked loose YET after many years. Lets just call it an ongoing experiment; whichever scope it's still on.

   I keep telling myself I'm going to find one of these that fits the taper of the fan; but alas, so far I couldn't be arsed to carry through with that plan. 

mnem
*back out into the suck-a-day*

[Cerebus]

Wow just woke up and last night was a thread roller coaster. I appear to have triggered that one by facetiously suggesting that the non arrival of my Fluke 87V would leave me no excuse to not do the gardening  . My apologies.

Odd that, because talk of you and gardening usually ends up in discussion of the most effective explosive gardening techniques.

[Cerebus]

5. Intruder Watch radio nazis will be there and I might have to wind them up from afar by pretending to be a fishing vessel and get myself in trouble.

Do you have the beam or the draught for it? 

[Cerebus]

ps  hey neo.....that is one manly bench.  looks like a whole herd of cats could not knock anything off it.

Do not underestimate the ingenuity of cats, I found my through hole transistor collection scattered across the floor the other day (fortunately still in the anti-static bags). It took a five foot vertical climb (a proper climb, no way of leaping up due to obstructions) with two overhangs to get to them.

[mnementh]

Wow just woke up and last night was a thread roller coaster. I appear to have triggered that one by facetiously suggesting that the non arrival of my Fluke 87V would leave me no excuse to not do the gardening  . My apologies.

Odd that, because talk of you and gardening usually ends up in discussion of the most effective explosive gardening techniques.

In his defense; that has been demonstrated to such extent that to many of us, bd and "explosive (insert subject here)" are part of the unspoken subtext of the channel. 

mnem
[This space For Rent]

[bd139]

That quote above reminded me again about that 87V. Seller still hasn’t sent it. Says it will be posted today 

Muppet alert.

[Cerebus]

If people have nothing really important to say, they give lenghty speeches about design and aesthetic aspects. Everybody is competent there. Fascinating ...

Bluntly, rubbish. The design, as in terms of layout of controls etc., of test equipment is crucial. It makes the difference between something that is a pleasure to use and something that is downright dangerous — a bench power supply that puts the switch that changes between display actual/settings right next to the one that changes ranges is the kind of thing that fries DUTs. Getting that right requires attention to detail, as does circuit design. So the effort that went into the layout and appearance of test gear is a clue as to the effort that went into the insides too. Getting it wrong, or consigning it to the 'doesn't matter pile', is a an indicator that one should at least question the overall quality and the thinking that went into it too.

[Wolfgang]

... at least somebody that hacks together something and not just complaining about the colour scheme of buttons.
For amateur radio purposes your noise source is absolutely adequate.
If it really makes a DSA816TG unnecessary is another story .

For more homebrew noise stuff (I made a solution for poor radio amateurs) look here:
electronicprojectsforfun.wordpress.com/making-noise/a-noise-figure-measurement-solution-for-the-poor/

[mnementh]

Lets consider EXACTLY what I was talking about with the front-panel design. The buttons are laid out awkwardly, in a manner that is downright anti-intuitive. the COLOR I was talking about is that poor contrast amber/red of the DISPLAY, which was so noxious that when Volkswagen/Audi tried it back in the day, they were roundly panned for just that complaint - nearly universal distaste at the color and poor readability.

So yes, this instrument is poorly designed on a number of fronts, it has a reputation for such, and that reputation is justly deserved.

This is the joy of haunting an alt.xyz thread. You get to see differing opinions and compare them against your own. You are of course free to have an opinion that differs from the general consensus; but you don't have the right to expect those around you to join you in that alternate reality.

That said... underhanded snide comments that deliberately border on personal attack are just childish.   

Cheers,

mnem
*Back out into the suck*                           

[Wolfgang]

... thats exactly the issue. All the points you make are your personal judgement. What is the definition of "awkward", "ergonomic", "distaste", ... ?!
You can argue for hours with nothing coming out. Its just a waste of time, IMHO. I have seen instruments that pleased my aesthetic feelings more than the Rigols, agreed, but heck, its not a iPhone where design is everything, its just a lab power supply.

If the only bad thing you can say about a lab unit is that you dont like the colors, buttons, ... I would consider buying this one.

... and if the best thing in a power supply is the design of the user interface, then I would rather buy something else, seriously.

[Cerebus]

Sigh, it's coming to something where even ebay thinks that I haven't bought enough test gear recently. I keep getting these little hints that I should spend more:



Fine, but show me something worth bidding on! Seriously, it must be nearly a month since I last placed a bid on anything. I've never noticed a drought of decent gear at realistic prices in September before. What's going on?

At this rate I'm going to have to start hanging around ham fests with the real ale and chunky jumper crowd...

[GreyWoolfe]

mnem
*Kicks the horse one last time*

Alrighty then.  Lucky for him they didn't shove a stick up his bum.

[mnementh]

... thats exactly the issue. All the points you make are your personal judgement. What is the definition of "awkward", "ergonomic", "distaste", ... ?!
You can argue for hours with nothing coming out. Its just a waste of time, IMHO. I have seen instruments that pleased my aesthetic feelings more than the Rigols, agreed, but heck, its not a iPhone where design is everything, its just a lab power supply.

If the only bad thing you can say about a lab unit is that you dont like the colors, buttons, ... I would consider buying this one.

... and if the best thing in a power supply is the design of the user interface, then I would rather buy something else, seriously.

No, these are not just my opinions, they are the opinion of a number of people on this server who have shown themselves to be knowledgeable, and who've posted such, and whose opinion I agree with on a fundamental level. The term for that is consensus or reputation. This is a reputation which I deliberately passed on in the thread just as such; reputation.

You disagree with that reputation. You're free to do so.

I disagree with popular consensus all the time; I just don't demand that others join me in that opinion, or deliberately attempt to devalue that opposing opinion.

I personally don't give two whits about the instrument in question; you like yours, and that's all that should matter to you.

Thanks for trying to convert me to your POV, but "No, thank you." still means "No."


Cheers,

mnem
Really?!? Rain RIGHT NOW?!?

[Cerebus]

What is the definition of "awkward", "ergonomic",

awkward |ˈɔːkwəd|
adjective
1 causing difficulty; hard to do or deal with
2 causing or feeling uneasy embarrassment or inconvenience
3 not smooth or graceful; ungainly

ergonomic |ˌəːɡəˈnɒmɪk|
adjective
relating to or designed for efficiency and comfort in the working environment

distaste |dɪsˈteɪst|
noun [ in sing. ]
mild dislike or aversion

One perfectly capable of being, indeed likely to be, an objective term, not subjective as you are trying to imply and one quite clearly only objective. I'll give you "distaste" as a subjective term.

[Cerebus]

Really?!? Rain RIGHT NOW?!?

[mnementh]

Thank you. I needed that. I  IRL.

[SNIP 5th Element snippet for brevity's sake]

mnem
*Kicks the horse one last time*

Alrighty then.  Lucky for him they didn't shove a stick up his bum.

I think what they did to "Smoke you!!!" dude was considerably more... umm... aggressive than mere sodomy. 

mnem
"Any Police shakedown you walk away from is a good one."

[bd139]

Improving SNR

... at least somebody that hacks together something and not just complaining about the colour scheme of buttons.
For amateur radio purposes your noise source is absolutely adequate.
If it really makes a DSA816TG unnecessary is another story .

Yes it works perfectly well for this use case. I was quite excited when I got it working as it's nice to see the things you read about in books on the screen

As for the DSA being unnecessary, all of this is unnecessary for me really but what's life without whimsy. Work, sleep, cleaning and death. I don't mind the cleaning bit actually.

For more homebrew noise stuff (I made a solution for poor radio amateurs) look here:
electronicprojectsforfun.wordpress.com/making-noise/a-noise-figure-measurement-solution-for-the-poor/

Thanks for the link. Have been reading articles on your web site on and off for a while. Very interesting stuff. Thanks for putting this online