Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[tggzzz]

Ah, decisions decisions.

Should I

• go out and get yet another Tek 2456, presuming it hasn't been sold, or
• stay in to try to claim reply 10000, and almost certainly miss

Go for the 2465, you know you want to.  I just got one and it would be nice to know someone clever here is also working on the same beast.  Oh, and try and get a "B", please, there's a good chap.

Yeahbut, I've already done my penance on a 2465 (and a 2445B).

Must flog that 2445B, and others. Trouble is that nobody would want to pay the going price(s) at the Dunstable rally without seeing it working. That was the advantage of the Kempton rally, and is the advantage of the Harwell rally.

[tggzzz]

Ah, decisions decisions.

Should I

• go out and get yet another Tek 2456, presuming it hasn't been sold, or
• stay in to try to claim reply 10000, and almost certainly miss

How dare you post these choices in here ... go grab it .... NOW ! 

It is a long way away, and fortunately it is too late for today. Unfortunately there is tomorrow.

[Specmaster]

Good spot with that fraudulent eBay stuff. The following has appeared by three different sellers now:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F253591551197

Its reported again to Ebay.

[mnementh]

The Philips Lehrbriefe are only available second hand today AFAIK.

Abe Books has both parts as well, shipping from Germany. Seems pretty cheap. Hope that helps anyone looking for it.


mnem
*Currently being mauled by two small children*

Thank you. A long time ago I ordered lots of books from the US via ABE. Back then, shipping was one or two dollars (and a few cents for the book). Nowadays shipping is prohibitively expensive from the USA.
No problem here, though.
Actually, big problem here. Unless I buy a mobile phone, I simply can't pay them. I ought to sue the credit card company: I had to pay for the card, yet I cannot use it.

You're welcome!

Hmmm... seems I can get right through the checkout to the payment page on my PC, as long as I'm logged into my account. Maybe you need hop on a PC and create an account? There's always the option of using your PayPal card as a credit card as well; gives you a 2nd layer of security even if you have to use a public PC. I agree it would be a lot easier if they just took PP directly though...

mnem
*tsk-ily*

[mnementh]

[EDIT]

Hmmm... the spec sheet for the DE-5000 is pretty informative. 100Hz, 120Hz, 1KHz, 10KHz, 100KHz test frequencies. 20,000uF/2000 H capacity with all the usual test parameters, and AC Resistance at the above test frequencies. Spec sheet says the TL-21 alligators & TL-22 Tweezers are both 4-wire measurement connected at the clips/tweezers. Sort mode with multiple tolerance ranges, and optional serial IR out to PC. Accuracy 0.3% to 3.0% depending on range. All with a common 9V battery for power. That is pretty damned impressive.


Further investigation of that LCR-TC1 Color Component Tester reveal a LOT of functionality for a small price ($US22-26 shipped); the usual Mega328 graphic component ID, looks like LiPo battery power supply built-in (Micro-USB charging?), IR Detector/Decoder, with junction test voltage up to 4.5V so Darlington HFe should be pretty accurate, and zener regulating voltage up to 30V. Sonuvacrap!  That is a genuine little gem right there, if the overall accuracy is as good as you suggest!

Hmmmm... it may be time for yet ANOTHER Mega328 tester in my arsenal. 

[/EDIT]


mnem
*wibble*

Well the colour tester IMO is expensive just to gain the luxury of colour and a few extra functions like a cell tester, something DMM does very well, given that the one I have in the transparent case is a Mega 328, (one you recommended actually) is less then $10 shipped,

The DE-5000 I did consider briefly and the dropped it as in IMO it is just to complicated for its own good with to many button presses to access the right settings for each test etc, leads to mistakes being made aside from its price ruled it out of contention for me.

The black one $28 shipped was the first one I tried to try and read ESR etc in circuit but is not as good in my view as the Mega 328 one above because the ZIF socket is not built in but a push in adaptor if required.

I attach 2 photos of them both testing the same transistor which is an S9018 and you will see almost identical results.

 

Oh, I tend to agree with you in principle, but the thing with these testers is the firmware is constantly being updated to be more accurate in one device type or another, and unless you find the Chinese-language eevblog-equivalent forums where they're being discussed, and can read Chinese, you're pretty much boned as far as being able to update your firmware without buying a newer unit to steal it from so from time to time it does pay to get into a newer version.

Plus, this one adds not only higher res color display, but also built-in rechargeable power AND that IR detector/Decoder AND the 30V range on the Zener tester. I think that's a pretty good deal, especially considering the nicer case.

There are vendors selling the black one with a ZIF socket now, and of course a bare socket is only a few $$ all over fleabay anyways. Or is that what you were saying?

 

The one thing that Mega328 tester DOES have is the 3-way pads for testing SMDs; nothing else is as convenient, especially for SOT-23. Tweezers are a distant second place in general, IMO. The only other Mega328 tester I've seen with those pads more conveniently arranged is this one; also ~$US22.

Of course, you can always buy some cheap breakout boards like these to roll your own, if that's more to your liking.

mnem
*Test-ily*

[mnementh]

As there has been a bit of discussion about the merits of using a dim bulb tester or a variac when testing new equipment that may have some issues that could result in further damage if switched directly onto normal power without checking first. I though that I'd show my unit that I made up that can sit between the DUT and the supply, be it directly from a power socket, via a dim bulb tester or a variac to help provide some extra information that could be very useful. It provides by default the following information, the voltage being applied (useful with variac), the current being drawn and also the power being drawn in W. A single press of a button switches the device into mode 2 and it then reads and displays, power factor, Hz and KwH.

    ADDED FOR COMPARISON:

The meter can be sourced from Aliexpress and the case is just a cheap 4 module din rail enclosure available from any electrical wholesaler, RS etc.

You made a BETTER Kill-A-Watt!!!

I've made similar test jigs for DC powered devices, (there are ones pre-made for RC hobbyists) and I think Uncle BumbleFu** (Warning!!! NSFW: Rude, Crude, Ignorant & Socially Unacceptable) uses a similar device for his product reviews. Years ago, when I used to work the appliance trade, I took a cheap power strip and made a 12ga "current loop" just for testing/health-checking refrigerator compressors with the inductive ammeter I always carried.

Of course nowadays you can buy generic ones ready-made on fleaBay for $US5-10 (Yes, there ARE also 220V models), but where's the fun in that? 

mnem
*Juicy*

[mnementh]

Joking aside, PM me a snail mail address; I'll drop something in the post for you to tinker with. I'm currently sorting through a huge pile of just this sort of junk to archive or trash; I'm sure I have something appropriate. You need what, 300-500mA? IIRC, you said it also drives the LED panel, right?


mnem
I think that's the last of 'em.

PM sent.

I see this time it's in London then. The starting price is also a bit of a give away that's a con.

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again [emoji83]

Me thinks you quoted the wrong post. I ain't no scammer! 

Whaaa? I've never even been to London. Not that I wouldn't LOVE to...

I know I can be annoying, but really... fleaBay scamming?!? that's just low, even for me!!!


mnem
There is no honor among thieves.

[mnementh]

Ah, decisions decisions.

Should I

• go out and get yet another Tek 2456 2465, presuming it hasn't been sold, or
• stay in to try to claim reply 10000, and almost certainly miss

How dare you post these choices in here ... go grab it .... NOW ! 

It is a long way away, and fortunately it is too late for today. Unfortunately there is tomorrow.

Since you already snagged the 10K, you NEED to go for the 2465. You have no choice, really. 

And so my army grows... 

Maybe I'll take over the East End BEFORE I take over the Tri-State Area!!! 


mnem

[Brumby]

Oh, I tend to agree with you in principle, but the thing with these testers is the firmware is constantly being updated to be more accurate in one device type or another, and unless you find the Chinese-language eevblog-equivalent forums where they're being discussed, and can read Chinese, you're pretty much boned as far as being able to update your firmware without buying a newer unit to steal it from so from time to time it does pay to get into a newer version.

Have you seen this thread ... ?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/%2420-lcr-esr-transistor-checker-project/

[Cerebus]

Oh, I tend to agree with you in principle, but the thing with these testers is the firmware is constantly being updated to be more accurate in one device type or another, and unless you find the Chinese-language eevblog-equivalent forums where they're being discussed, and can read Chinese, you're pretty much boned as far as being able to update your firmware without buying a newer unit to steal it from so from time to time it does pay to get into a newer version.

Have you seen this thread ... ?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/%2420-lcr-esr-transistor-checker-project/

That thread suffers from an effect that I've seen on several long but highly useful threads on here. That thread is one, all the X voltage reference design threads are, the homebrew Metcal is another - I'm sure there are other examples.

If you haven't been in since the beginning of one of these threads it's very difficult to get to the meat-of-her without reading the whole thread, from message 1. Such threads really need curating.  At certain points in the thread it would be really useful for someone to periodically write a curatorial post that sums up what consensus has been reached, what questions are still open, what's the latest and best schematic/firmware etc.

[Specmaster]

Oh, I tend to agree with you in principle, but the thing with these testers is the firmware is constantly being updated to be more accurate in one device type or another, and unless you find the Chinese-language eevblog-equivalent forums where they're being discussed, and can read Chinese, you're pretty much boned as far as being able to update your firmware without buying a newer unit to steal it from so from time to time it does pay to get into a newer version.

Plus, this one adds not only higher res color display, but also built-in rechargeable power AND that IR detector/Decoder AND the 30V range on the Zener tester. I think that's a pretty good deal, especially considering the nicer case.

There are vendors selling the black one with a ZIF socket now, and of course a bare socket is only a few $$ all over fleabay anyways. Or is that what you were saying?

 

The one thing that Mega328 tester DOES have is the 3-way pads for testing SMDs; nothing else is as convenient, especially for SOT-23. Tweezers are a distant second place in general, IMO. The only other Mega328 tester I've seen with those pads more conveniently arranged is this one; also ~$US22.

Of course, you can always buy some cheap breakout boards like these to roll your own, if that's more to your liking.

mnem
*Test-ily*

No, the black ones all come with the extra ZIF socket loose in the package so you can plug it into the normal socket on the front of the tester. I understand about the latest firmware etc, but one could up with a box / draw full of these 328 testers if you went down that route.
I don't know what powers the black one but I purchased the transparent one because you thought a mega 328 device would be able to test while still in circuit, something I'm not convinced off TBH but I wanted it because the screen on my black one is a hard to read at times but the new one is green and backlit.

[Brumby]

That thread suffers from an effect that I've seen on several long but highly useful threads on here. That thread is one, all the X voltage reference design threads are, the homebrew Metcal is another - I'm sure there are other examples.

If you haven't been in since the beginning of one of these threads it's very difficult to get to the meat-of-her without reading the whole thread, from message 1. Such threads really need curating.  At certain points in the thread it would be really useful for someone to periodically write a curatorial post that sums up what consensus has been reached, what questions are still open, what's the latest and best schematic/firmware etc.

I completely agree.

I have one of the models mentioned somewhere in there and I would like to upgrade the firmware at some point - but the current capabilities aren't affecting me in any significant way, so I haven't yet had to pluck up the courage to dive in and try to track down the firmware version that suits my needs for the model I have.

There is some great knowledge in there - but it is hard to distill.

[mnementh]

Oh, I tend to agree with you in principle, but the thing with these testers is the firmware is constantly being updated to be more accurate in one device type or another, and unless you find the Chinese-language eevblog-equivalent forums where they're being discussed, and can read Chinese, you're pretty much boned as far as being able to update your firmware without buying a newer unit to steal it from so from time to time it does pay to get into a newer version.

Have you seen this thread ... ?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/%2420-lcr-esr-transistor-checker-project/

That thread suffers from an effect that I've seen on several long but highly useful threads on here. That thread is one, all the X voltage reference design threads are, the homebrew Metcal is another - I'm sure there are other examples.

If you haven't been in since the beginning of one of these threads it's very difficult to get to the meat-of-her without reading the whole thread, from message 1. Such threads really need curating.  At certain points in the thread it would be really useful for someone to periodically write a curatorial post that sums up what consensus has been reached, what questions are still open, what's the latest and best schematic/firmware etc.

Wow... no idea how I missed that one, even after several searches on here.  I'll have to do a deep dive, but maybe it'll be fruitful. 

Oh, I tend to agree with you in principle, but the thing with these testers is the firmware is constantly being updated to be more accurate in one device type or another, and unless you find the Chinese-language eevblog-equivalent forums where they're being discussed, and can read Chinese, you're pretty much boned as far as being able to update your firmware without buying a newer unit to steal it from so from time to time it does pay to get into a newer version.

Plus, this one adds not only higher res color display, but also built-in rechargeable power AND that IR detector/Decoder AND the 30V range on the Zener tester. I think that's a pretty good deal, especially considering the nicer case.

There are vendors selling the black one with a ZIF socket now, and of course a bare socket is only a few $$ all over fleabay anyways. Or is that what you were saying?

 

The one thing that Mega328 tester DOES have is the 3-way pads for testing SMDs; nothing else is as convenient, especially for SOT-23. Tweezers are a distant second place in general, IMO. The only other Mega328 tester I've seen with those pads more conveniently arranged is this one; also ~$US22.

Of course, you can always buy some cheap breakout boards like these to roll your own, if that's more to your liking.

mnem
*Test-ily*

No, the black ones all come with the extra ZIF socket loose in the package so you can plug it into the normal socket on the front of the tester. I understand about the latest firmware etc, but one could up with a box / draw full of these 328 testers if you went down that route.

I don't know what powers the black one but I purchased the transparent one because you thought a mega 328 device would be able to test while still in circuit, something I'm not convinced off TBH but I wanted it because the screen on my black one is a hard to read at times but the new one is green and backlit.

The Mega328 DOES produce some useful results in circuit; just not necessarily what it returns on the screen. I've used it a number of times to troubleshoot the HV ballast circuits on LCD monitors, for example; you find a problem in a given part of the circuit, connect your Mega328 to points on a known good similar board, then test the suspect board... I've found the results often much more useful than just a meter.

As for "one could up with a box / draw full of these 328 testers if you went down that route..." *Looks up at the title of the thread*  Yeah... about that... 


mnem
*Family Time*

[frozenfrogz]

Basically it is all in the sources over at mikrocontroller.net. I do not find it easy to wrap my head around it though. Configuring the build options is pretty straight forward, the main problem I usually run into is checking out (or remembering) what specifics apply to THAT certain model being delivered for little money from some guy in China

[bd139]

Ok did lots of research. The AVR based LC meters using oscillation are total shit. The oscillation speed is too fast for the counter to count all pulses properly in the sub 500pF range. PIC ones don’t suffer from this because the counter architecture is different.

[Brumby]

Wow... no idea how I missed that one, even after several searches on here.  I'll have to do a deep dive, but maybe it'll be fruitful. 

Hope you're good at holding your breath.  'Deep' is being diplomatic.

[Cerebus]

Basically it is all in the sources over at mikrocontroller.net. I do not find it easy to wrap my head around it though. Configuring the build options is pretty straight forward, the main problem I usually run into is checking out (or remembering) what specifics apply to THAT certain model being delivered for little money from some guy in China

This is where we English speakers get bogged down: I see German, I see mention of Danish, Portuguese... While I can cope with German at the "Bitte, noch ein bier!" level, I'm lost once it gets too technical, and as for Danish and Portuguese ...

[tggzzz]

Ah, decisions decisions.

Should I

• go out and get yet another Tek 2456 2465, presuming it hasn't been sold, or
• stay in to try to claim reply 10000, and almost certainly miss

How dare you post these choices in here ... go grab it .... NOW ! 

It is a long way away, and fortunately it is too late for today. Unfortunately there is tomorrow.

Since you already snagged the 10K, you NEED to go for the 2465. You have no choice, really. 

And that, if proof were needed, is a conclusive demonstration of what passes for "helpful" therapy in this thread.

[Specmaster]

Ok did lots of research. The AVR based LC meters using oscillation are total shit. The oscillation speed is too fast for the counter to count all pulses properly in the sub 500pF range. PIC ones don’t suffer from this because the counter architecture is different.

Which ones are they?

[bd139]

Ones derived from the AADE meters but CPU replaced with AVR. Also some transistor tester clones by the looks.

[frozenfrogz]

This is where we English speakers get bogged down: I see German, I see mention of Danish, Portuguese... While I can cope with German at the "Bitte, noch ein bier!" level, I'm lost once it gets too technical, and as for Danish and Portuguese ...

https://www.mikrocontroller.net/articles/AVR_Transistortester

Multi language sections

But I can see the language barrier issue plus mikrocontroller.net is not exactly what I would call having a good UI. Finding stuff on there is hard - even for native Germans.

[bd139]

The transistor tester variants are likely good to 5-8%.

I think I can get half as good as the best capacitor I can find (2%)

[Specmaster]

The transistor tester variants are likely good to 5-8%.

I think I can get half as good as the best capacitor I can find (2%)

Question is, 5-8% relates to what, the cap value, ESR, hfe or what, but even then, if your testing to see if a component is working or failing, then surely 5-8% is perfect for that type testing, especially given that most caps have a rating of +/- 20%. If a cap that is supposed to be 200uF measures 160uF you would change it anyway. maybe not so much if it was higher as long as the ESR was OK?

[bd139]

For me it’s more measuring inductors I have wound etc.

[Specmaster]

Now that I can understand as being for your radio project of greater importance as they would be a fairly critical part in deed.

On another topic, no parcel arrived Saturday so it must surely be here tomorrow and I'll find out the damage for a re-calibration of the 3478A as well tomorrow I have emailed them already.