Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[URI]

Postman came today while I was in the you know where.., when I came out, I found a card on the door mat telling me that I have a parcel to sign for but I'll have to go and collect it tomorrow from the sorting office.

Did he ring the doorbell? 

Just a few minutes ago my son put some recycling out and noticed package on the outside the front door and brought it in, low and behold, it had Quicko packing tape all over it which meant one thing, it was the missing items I needed to make up my second T12 soldering station from AliExpress, which had been shown on their tracking page as still being somewhere between China and the UK?

Checked on the tracking site again and it has miraculously jumped from having "departed country of origin"  to being "with local carrier", what happened to "arrived at destination country", "in customs", "cleared customs" and at "Local distribution dept"??

Hey, it's just a miracle! 
Or a time warp..? 

Anyway, everything is now here so I'll get this one made up and compare the different T12 systems side by side, one thing I have noticed is that the case for the 2nd one is 16mm longer so that makes for greater clearance between the PCB and the IEC socket giving me greater options over how I earth it and route the incoming mains supply. 

Ahh! I'm seeing forward to your comparison. Is this second T12 system the type with 5-pin Connector/5-wire cable?

[bd139]

Postmen don't ring the doorbell in the UK. They put a red slip through so they dont have to 

[Specmaster]

URI

Yes he did ring the doorbell but nothing I could about answering the door. Time warp or frozen in time, who knows, but I'm grateful its arrived at last.

Yes it is the 5 pin version, with a longer case, the same power supply (simply because its the only one that seems fit into the side wall mounted slots so its supported off the bottom of the metal case) and also has the blue OLED display (circuit board is the blue bit I think) and is also printed on it Hakko which comes with its own replacement for the case front panel, made out of smoked perspex which replaces the metal one that came with the case.

[Specmaster]

As many of you will know, I was given a dead Bose Sound dock the other day and it turned out to be working  but did not have the remote control. I found one on eBay that the seller was only selling because his sound dock stopped working.

Anyway the seller agreed to let have the sound dock as well for the cost of the extra postage. It arrived today, very good condition cosmetically but dead as a dodo, not even a single bleep when powering it up.

Stripped it down it looks like the sound processor in the base is the culprit so I'm looking for another now to swap it out.

As you know there are some people who have claimed that these have lead added to the bases to make it heavier and also add to the perceived value of the docks. I have stripped it right down and found zero evidence of any lead in these at all so I can only guess that they must be thinking of something else, or have been mislead by others. All I can find is the 30 pin connector, DSP in the base, the main body which is a speaker cabinet with a tuned bass response channel (wave channel) , 2 smallish speakers with incredibly large and heavy magnets and a power amplifier.

There doesn't seem to be anywhere where lead could be added so I think this myth is busted unless you know where that missing lead is?

[URI]

Did a quick look inside the HP 5006A signature analyzer. Not really a teardown but anyway...

According to the time codes, this HP 5006A seems to be made in the mid-80s or later.

Nothing fancy, mostly standard ICs. Like any HP gear it's well designed and nicely built:


The front panel is made of steel -it's ferromagnetic.    Accidentially a magnet stuck to it that I had laying around.
I would have expected it to be made of aluminium.

Even though this is only a special helping device for checking HP test gear there are some unobtanium ICs in there.
I have to correct myself. Just a quick look into the operation manual shows that the 5006A signature analyzer was a general tool for troubleshooting "complex electronic logic circuits to the component level." Also Tek had one in their portfolio.


Haven't been able to google find out what that 1820-1052 is and what it does.
(Have to check the service manual..)

I like that Mikrocontroller with that piggibacked EPROM (haven't seen something like that before).   
The Mostek MK38P70 is a version of the MK3870 in a P-Prom-package where "P" stands for piggiback. 
It's running at incredible 4MHz. Seems ridiculous today but was a standard speed at the time this device was designed.


Nothing fancy on the  underside. I like that marking of all parts and their outlines. That makes such a difference when you have to debug. Nice. 

[nfmax]

Piggy-back microcontrollers like that were meant for prototyping masked ROM devices, not normally shipped in customer units because they cost a fortune each. The internal mask ROM is bonded out (or maybe fused out - disabled somehow) and a 24 pin EPROM plugged in to the top socket. You may have a very early unit there!

[glarsson]

As you know there are some people who have claimed that these have lead added to the bases to make it heavier and also add to the perceived value of the docks. I have stripped it right down and found zero evidence of any lead in these at all so I can only guess that they must be thinking of something else, or have been mislead by others.

Can't have lead today due to RoHS. Must be depleted uranium or something.

[URI]

Piggy-back microcontrollers like that were meant for prototyping masked ROM devices, not normally shipped in customer units because they cost a fortune each. The internal mask ROM is bonded out (or maybe fused out - disabled somehow) and a 24 pin EPROM plugged in to the top socket. You may have a very early unit there!

Very interesting information, thank you!

From the MK38P70 datasheet:
"By using an external EPROM, the 38P70 may be used to emulate the 3870 ROM devices. The 97400 series can directly emulate the following devices.

MK38P70/10
MK38P70/20
MK38P70/22
MK38P70/30
MK38P7042"

Is it possible, better is it very likely that someone at HP wanted that MK3870 to be used for that design but did also want the firmware of the 5006A be able to be updated? In other words: Was it a general rule that HP test gear had to be updatable concerning their firmware? As a consequence HP wouldn't have designed test gear with (one time) mask programmable controllers.. 

I think I will investigate the service manual. 

Update: The service manuals I have found on the 'net yet have unreadable schematics. 

[djos]

As many of you will know, I was given a dead Bose Sound dock the other day and it turned out to be working  but did not have the remote control. I found one on eBay that the seller was only selling because his sound dock stopped working.

Anyway the seller agreed to let have the sound dock as well for the cost of the extra postage. It arrived today, very good condition cosmetically but dead as a dodo, not even a single bleep when powering it up.

Stripped it down it looks like the sound processor in the base is the culprit so I'm looking for another now to swap it out.

As you know there are some people who have claimed that these have lead added to the bases to make it heavier and also add to the perceived value of the docks. I have stripped it right down and found zero evidence of any lead in these at all so I can only guess that they must be thinking of something else, or have been mislead by others. All I can find is the 30 pin connector, DSP in the base, the main body which is a speaker cabinet with a tuned bass response channel (wave channel) , 2 smallish speakers with incredibly large and heavy magnets and a power amplifier.

There doesn't seem to be anywhere where lead could be added so I think this myth is busted unless you know where that missing lead is?

I was referring to the Bose lifestyle systems with their stupid little cube speakers, those have weights in them, or at least they did in the mid 2k's when I sold them.

[neo]

Amusingly, i opened my 8050A to re-tant it, only to discover someone already did it, they did  miss two however.

[Specmaster]

As you know there are some people who have claimed that these have lead added to the bases to make it heavier and also add to the perceived value of the docks. I have stripped it right down and found zero evidence of any lead in these at all so I can only guess that they must be thinking of something else, or have been mislead by others.

Can't have lead today due to RoHS. Must be depleted uranium or something.

So instead of lead poisoning, you get radiation poisoning or cancer, that makes sense.   

[beanflying]

35 degrees at 10.30am - thats a wrap for the 'work' day 

[Specmaster]

As many of you will know, I was given a dead Bose Sound dock the other day and it turned out to be working  but did not have the remote control. I found one on eBay that the seller was only selling because his sound dock stopped working.

Anyway the seller agreed to let have the sound dock as well for the cost of the extra postage. It arrived today, very good condition cosmetically but dead as a dodo, not even a single bleep when powering it up.

Stripped it down it looks like the sound processor in the base is the culprit so I'm looking for another now to swap it out.

As you know there are some people who have claimed that these have lead added to the bases to make it heavier and also add to the perceived value of the docks. I have stripped it right down and found zero evidence of any lead in these at all so I can only guess that they must be thinking of something else, or have been mislead by others. All I can find is the 30 pin connector, DSP in the base, the main body which is a speaker cabinet with a tuned bass response channel (wave channel) , 2 smallish speakers with incredibly large and heavy magnets and a power amplifier.

There doesn't seem to be anywhere where lead could be added so I think this myth is busted unless you know where that missing lead is?

I was referring to the Bose lifestyle systems with their stupid little cube speakers, those have weights in them, or at least they did in the mid 2k's when I sold them.

Strange, I didn't think it was you who said that  but you were correct about the DSP being used though.

Having said that thats not so unusual today is it? We do that all with CD's, DVD's and Blu-ray discs, MP3 players etc all the time now.

[Specmaster]

Just finished building the 2nd T12 system and I must say, its a real pain when you're using wire a size to big, especially when soldering onto the 5 pin plug and also onto the "Blue OLED Controller" terminal pads. I'll pop some photos of the build up tomorrow, still in the testing phase now but one thing I can say straight off the bat is that I do not like replacement front panel that comes with the "Blue OLED Controller" as it is thick and smoked which makes reading the digital display very hard to do unless you have subdued bench lighting, get a spot of sunlight on it and your done for. From that aspect I prefer the controller that comes with the completed Quicko T12-952 system.

[bitseeker]

The HP 5006 was delivered to a neighbour of mine today. 

I got it for little money off ebay because the nose of the tip was broken off and because of that the tip fell into parts.

...

After reassembling the tip I triggered a self test:


Winner! 

Nicely done! I like your surface-mount wiring.

Ok now, what was next in the table of recommended test gear in that service manual...     

Haha, it's never-ending.

And thanks for the tour inside the 5006A. It's the first time I've seen the innards of one. It's good to see that a debugging tool is well-designed for debugging should it develop a fault itself.

[Specmaster]

As promised here is a quick side by side comparison of the assembled system by Quicko and a self assembled system using parts selected from the many on offer. Quicko uses a 4 pin system and the other is a 5 pin system, both are menu driven for the setting up of the various parameters such as temp compensation, time sleep and power off modes, bleeper mode, method of waking up if they have gone to sleep or power off modes, boost temperature and duration, all of which are accessed via the rotary encoder.

Once setup, both do a pretty fine job of maintaining the set temperature and the biggest difference as far user ability is concerned is display on the self made unit is considerably dimmer and therefore more difficult to see while adjusting or checking the temperature, the photo makes it better then it really it is. Both have needed extensive reworking on the earthing arrangements because neither had provision to earth the metal case, this has now been addressed. The Quicko had the PCB of the power supply direct soldered to the tags of the incoming power socket, something I did not like as it is a potential weak point.

The Quicko has the shortest case here and as such space is tight, both have OLED displays.

Here are the photos, If I can think of anything else, Ill add another report tomorrow, right now I'm in danger of my head crashing the keyboard, been a long day.

Of the two units, I think the Quicko is the better unit, not for performance as they are both pretty much balanced, the controller is brighter and is the controller is better build with the main services being plug and play.

[bitseeker]

The Quicko display is significantly brighter. I wonder how much that'll affect its longevity. I like that they used a sans serif font for the main temp readout. If only they had used the same font family for the rest of the display.

Sorry if I missed this in an earlier post, but how did you ensure a good long-term ground connection for the enclosure since bare aluminum oxidizes so readily?

[glarsson]

So instead of lead poisoning, you get radiation poisoning or cancer, that makes sense. 

Depleted uranium is less radioactive than natural uranium. It is not dangerous unless you get it inside your body. Don't eat it. Don't grind it to a powder and breath it.

[Specmaster]

So instead of lead poisoning, you get radiation poisoning or cancer, that makes sense. 

Depleted uranium is less radioactive than natural uranium. It is not dangerous unless you get it inside your body. Don't eat it. Don't grind it to a powder and breath it.

Much the same as lead then.

[GreyWoolfe]

I got mine for $35 but I have 3 broken button caps.  Anyone know where you can get them?  My GoogleFu turned up nothing.

Unfortunately, I think a parts unit might be the only source.  They were used on a lot of HP gear from that time period, so it should be possible to scare them up somewhere.  I have a few things that are missing some of them, too.  I can't recall ever seeing any as NOS.

-Pat

That's where my squirrelly brain is going also.  What gets me is parts units are more than I paid for my working unit.  I can still press the buttons in.  It comes down to what I am willing to spend for a purely cosmetic issue.

The good thing in this case is that they were used in so many different things that it doesn't have to be the same type of instrument, and there may be something really cheap that uses them.  (Or someone parting one out). I'll see if I can find the part number later, if you don't already have it.  That sometimes helps in searches.

Just to be sure we're on the same page, you mean the little square pushbutton tops, right, not the ones in the knob centers?

-Pat

Yes, the little pushbutton tops.  The ones in the knob centers are fine.  I have the part numbers, HP part# 0370 2631 for the white button and 0370 0604 for the grey, google and bing searches brings up everything but the buttons.  I will have to spend some time on eBay looking at old HP test equipment to see if anything looks close.

[bd139]

Worth checking Keysight spares: https://www.keysight.com/my/faces/fapHomePage.jspx

They stock lots of stuff. I've ordered stuff from local sales reps before as well.

[Specmaster]

The Quicko display is significantly brighter. I wonder how much that'll affect its longevity. I like that they used a sans serif font for the main temp readout. If only they had used the same font family for the rest of the display.

Sorry if I missed this in an earlier post, but how did you ensure a good long-term ground connection for the enclosure since bare aluminum oxidizes so readily?

The Quicko display is the better of the 2 units in other ways as well, more on this later.

What I did with earthing was remove the anodising on the 4 corners of the upper and lower sections of the case at the rear and also did the same on the rear panel. I then crimped and soldered a ring terminal onto a piece of earth cable and soldered the other end to the IEC socket earth pin and also from the pin to the ground pad on the PSU. The ground pad has two traces that run around the perimeter of the PSU to another pad at the front and soldered a link from there to the ground terminal on the controller and then onto the iron interface socket, (the ground and 24v -ve is also bonded to the ground on the controller).

The ring terminal is placed on the bottom corner of the rear and the back plate offered up with the screw in the hole, a star washer and the ring terminal are then placed over the screw and the lot are is screwed together so the star washer adds bite into the frame and provides a really good earth. The screw threads also bite into the casing to give additional grounding points. The front of the case does not require the anodising being removed because the front plate on this build is a sheet of acrylic.

[bd139]

My T12 blew up this afternoon. Not sure what did it yet or what is up as I haven’t tested anything. Might just be the element gone but it’s certainly not like getting hot.  Whatever it was it objected to rapidly soldering about 100 LEDs in one go.

[Specmaster]

Oh no, should have gotten a mains driven one I reckon. When say blew up, bang or stopped working? display OK? I have noticed that today that that sometimes the contact between handle and tip is not always good (never noticed anything like that with the standard 907 handle.

[bd139]

Display is showing 0 degrees. Think it’s the handle or element. Might be my shitty soldering.

Definitely not the power supply. It’s been fed with high quality linear juice