Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Specmaster]

Yes they are good, in fact most pf the German food is good, they don't fill them out with preservatives, like their beer, they have a purity law in German don't they?

[bd139]

Yes indeed. Only allowed to use water, hops, barley.

Went to Germany (Leipzig) for a week a couple of years back. Ate schnitzel and chips every single day. Can't get enough of it 

Edit: Crap it was 2011. What happened to 7 years!?!

[Specmaster]

7 years of TEA thats what happened.

I was there about 18 years ago, went 3 or 4 times for work and was treated like a king while there, ate out every single night, almost rat arsed as well.

[_Wim_]

So I have some more info on my HP 8657A. The post office received it for sorting today and it should be at my door tomorrow.
The unfortunate and confusing part is the import cost. I was aware I would have to pay import, and I was always told it was 21% of the price you payed + 12 EUR administrative costs. I payed 200 USD for the signal generator, which is about 168 EUR. 21% of that is about 35 EUR. Add 12 EUR admin. costs and I'm looking at just shy of 50 euros import. But they are charging me 97 euros! that is twice as much as the cost I calculate!

I will pay up because well, I have to, but I want to know more details about this. As I was planning on purchasing some other stuff of ebay in the future that is worth a significantly larger sum, I don' t want to be surprised with higher import charges there as well.

Anyone know where I went wrong in my ball-park estimate that turned out to be only half of the actual import cost?

I think you missed a couple of costs... This is how it works (I think)

First the import duties are calculated (this is NOT the same as the VAT of 21%). Import percentage varies of the item type purchased. It can be as high as 17%. Import duties are calculated on the item value + shipping costs, so if your item cost was 168€ and shipping 32€, and import duties 17%, this would result in 34€ import duties.

Ad 30€ for customs paperwork to this. Your total amount is now 168€+32€+34€+30€ = 264€. On this total amount you have to pay 21% VAT (yes, also on shipping costs, import duties AND customs paperwork!). In this example this means another 56€.

So in my calculation (if shipping was 32€ and import 17%), you would have to pay 34€+30€+56€ = 120€! If shipping was lower, or import category was less expensive, you will arrive at your 97€ ...

So not cheap importing in Belgium!

That why I like the Ebay Global Shipping program, no unpleasant surprises afterwards, and typically less expensive to ship and import (why, I have no idea, but I guess our customs defaults to maximum, and with Ebay Global Shipping, paperwork is done by Ebay, and imports is not default max)

[neo]

Ebay has been calling me all afternoon...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Voltmeter-HP-3456A-CTAM-2621/183009581472?hash=item2a9c3899a0:g:td0AAOSwALtaVSsy#

An HP 3456A with a gpib cable, worth 15 bucks in and of itself, and a power cord. It even seems to turn on without problem, i want one for three reasons, the first is i have read about how stable they are, no custom parts, and that the volt nuts collect them 

What do you lot think? Is it as good of a deal as my eyes, glazed over with TEA, make it out to be? and more importantly, is it likely to be snatched up soon if i wait?

P.S. to specmaster specifically, I have not forgotten you and the fluke 8505A

[Specmaster]

Ebay has been calling me all afternoon...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Voltmeter-HP-3456A-CTAM-2621/183009581472?hash=item2a9c3899a0:g:td0AAOSwALtaVSsy#

An HP 3456A with a gpib cable, worth 15 bucks in and of itself, and a power cord. It even seems to turn on without problem, i want one for three reasons, the first is i have read about how stable they are, no custom parts, and that the volt nuts collect them 

What do you lot think? Is it as good of a deal as my eyes, glazed over with TEA, make it out to be? and more importantly, is it likely to be snatched up soon if i wait?

P.S. to specmaster specifically, I have not forgotten you and the fluke 8505A

I know nothing about this particular meter so I can offer zero advice other than it looks a bit beaten up.

Regarding the Fluke 8505A, as far as I'm aware its still January and we said February IIRC? So no problems here. 

[bd139]

Just found a video while restoring my bookmarks which may be of interest.

Various bits of TEA porn in this from Clifford Stoll (look him up):

https://www.ted.com/talks/clifford_stoll_on_everything/up-next?language=en

20 minutes of total randomness including measuring the speed of sound.

[neo]

Ebay has been calling me all afternoon...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Voltmeter-HP-3456A-CTAM-2621/183009581472?hash=item2a9c3899a0:g:td0AAOSwALtaVSsy#

An HP 3456A with a gpib cable, worth 15 bucks in and of itself, and a power cord. It even seems to turn on without problem, i want one for three reasons, the first is i have read about how stable they are, no custom parts, and that the volt nuts collect them 

What do you lot think? Is it as good of a deal as my eyes, glazed over with TEA, make it out to be? and more importantly, is it likely to be snatched up soon if i wait?

P.S. to specmaster specifically, I have not forgotten you and the fluke 8505A

I know nothing about this particular meter so I can offer zero advice other than it looks a bit beaten up.

Regarding the Fluke 8505A, as far as I'm aware its still January and we said February IIRC? So no problems here.

Have you gotten a shipping estimate as of yet? I have a ball park figure in my head of about $40ish

[Specmaster]

No not yet, I need to talk to Ebay and getting on the global shipping thingy, because they price it and check the packing etc.

[Specmaster]

Just found a video while restoring my bookmarks which may be of interest.

Various bits of TEA porn in this from Clifford Stoll (look him up):

https://www.ted.com/talks/clifford_stoll_on_everything/up-next?language=en

20 minutes of total randomness including measuring the speed of sound.

Yep he's quite a character, how the hell did you stumble across that video then?

[neo]

Annoyingly, perhaps thankfully, enough it went poof. Now i want one more but every other one is out of my current budget.

[djos]

I can't help it. Early lunch break...

It's an amazing little box. That's all I can say for now.

Couple of photos quickly. As per Dave's mantra; don't turn it on. Take it apart!

<snip>

As expected, just a switch and DC socket.

Action shot. Did some soldering with it quick; just some resistors to a bit of stripboard. Wow. I am now Asaruludu, wielder of the flaming sword. It's pretty damn excellent, even at a miserable 15.5 volts.

<snip>

Note the bodge to get power to it quickly. I don't have time to stick the right plug on the power supply at the moment so it's being driven off the bench supply I am awaiting the arrival of a pack of Anderson Powerpole connectors which I'm going to standardise on. A pair of these will be fitted to the rear panel.

Thanks to everyone who has been promoting these. Weller might be evicted. I'll run some proper boards through it and see how I get on

So shopping list:

1. Some more tips
2. A mains base station and iron (you need an iron to fix these)
3. A stand.
4. Tip thermometer.

 

Nice! 

My only gripe with mine is the 2.4mm chisel tip that came with it has a rather blunt tip - Im going to have to look for another one as its a bit useless for fine soldering work - heck I struggled even with soldering 2.54mm pins as it's just too chunky! 

[Specmaster]

Nice! 

My only gripe with mine is the 2.4mm chisel tip that came with it has a rather blunt tip - Im going to have to look for another one as its a bit useless for fine soldering work - heck I struggled even with soldering 2.54mm pins as it's just too chunky! 

Not quite sure what you mean here, chisel tip is not meant to be a sharp chisel , just chisel shape. How did you struggle soldering 2.54mm pins then? With the mass of the tip on those pins I would expected it to pretty easy as the tip would have a higher thermal mass to hold the heat for longer before the thermocouple kicks in to top up the heat again. I have been soldering some 2.54mm pins myself making up some header plugs for my cheapo Chinese transistor tester so I can plug in the leads en-bloc and I'm going to be making up some more soon so I have set of leads for resistors, inductors and capacitors at one end of the plug in header and 3 leads on the other end with mini grabbers on the end for transistor testing, all on the one plug.

Is it possible that your temperatures are not set correctly? Have you calibrated the iron with a proper tip tester? I find the Hakko 191 tester is ideal for the job and I have got my set calibrated to within a few degrees of the digital display and it works a treat and am just about to commence building myself set number 2 as soon as the parts that are currently being shown as in flight somewhere between the UK and China, actually land and make their way to my house.

[djos]

Nice! 

My only gripe with mine is the 2.4mm chisel tip that came with it has a rather blunt tip - Im going to have to look for another one as its a bit useless for fine soldering work - heck I struggled even with soldering 2.54mm pins as it's just too chunky! 

Not quite sure what you mean here, chisel tip is not meant to be a sharp chisel , just chisel shape. How did you struggle soldering 2.54mm pins then? With the mass of the tip on those pins I would expected it to pretty easy as the tip would have a higher thermal mass to hold the heat for longer before the thermocouple kicks in to top up the heat again. I have been soldering some 2.54mm pins myself making up some header plugs for my cheapo Chinese transistor tester so I can plug in the leads en-bloc and I'm going to be making up some more soon so I have set of leads for resistors, inductors and capacitors at one end of the plug in header and 3 leads on the other end with mini grabbers on the end for transistor testing, all on the one plug.

Is it possible that your temperatures are not set correctly? Have you calibrated the iron with a proper tip tester? I find the Hakko 191 tester is ideal for the job and I have got my set calibrated to within a few degrees of the digital display and it works a treat and am just about to commence building myself set number 2 as soon as the parts that are currently being shown as in flight somewhere between the UK and China, actually land and make their way to my house.

Im used to fine chisel tips, I'll take a photo tonight of my T12 2.4mm vs my favorite tip from my ZD-917.

[Specmaster]

I attach a list of the T12 K type tips as produced by Hakko.

[djos]

I attach a list of the T12 K type tips as produced by Hakko.

I haven't tried using the 45 degree angled tips yet, but they have a nice fine tips so I'll see how they go.

[Specmaster]

Oh I see, sorry thats what I thought you meant. So maybe you have been using a D4 or D24. I don't have a D24 but have got a D4 and that is big beast and more rounded tip then a chisel.

[djos]

Oh I see, sorry thats what I thought you meant. So maybe you have been using a D4 or D24. I don't have a D24 but have got a D4 and that is big beast and more rounded tip then a chisel.

Yeah it's the D24 I'm not thrilled with, it's way fatter at the edge than imo it should be.

[bd139]

K tip is pretty good. I went full Chinese production soldering yesterday and blasted through about 100 LEDs in 3 minutes. Took longer to clip the leads.

Amazed at how much energy those irons can kick out.

[Mr. Scram]

Those things are, and I'm quoting someone else here, "suicide irons". This is why CE mark means fuck all; you can self-certify the things.

Edit: when you think a whole Quicko setup costs you £30 at least, then consider that is £9 with (a) import taxes paid (b) approval [hahaha] (c) packaging and marketing (d) VAT, you've got to think of all the corners they cut in the engineering side of things.

My nan's electric blanket plugged into the light fitting was less insane.

To think about a third is the actual cost of the product, the rest is tax, transport and shop costs. How much of an iron can you build for 3 quid?

[bd139]

The fire hazard bit.

[TheUnnamedNewbie]

So received an email from the postal service that I will be receiving my HP 8657A today (the send you one when you have to pay taxes, gotta get the money in cash, they don't take cards). There goes my ability to concentrate today... On every day he comes by my house between 11:00 and 12:30, but today is market day so his route is different, and I don't know when he will be here...

Every car door I can hear outside or vehicle in the neighbourhood stopping causes me to drop whatever I'm doing and listen if it is the delivery car... Even in the process of typing this post here I looked out of my window twice because I heard a car door...

[Mr. Scram]

That does sound suspiciously like a way of selling normal items at the normal price, plus offloading crap. I would want the reduction to be the same as it would cost me to replace the faulty sub-order.

The guy has been decent all along, even when he didn't have to. His feedback is great too. I could be had, but if I work on that assumption I might be a dick to a nice guy. I don't think I want to be a dick.

I opened up the defective part yesterday, as it's dead simple and not much can be wrong. All the wires are in the right place and poking around with the multimeter didn't show much either. It's visibly brand new, so I'm a bit surprised.

[tggzzz]

That does sound suspiciously like a way of selling normal items at the normal price, plus offloading crap. I would want the reduction to be the same as it would cost me to replace the faulty sub-order.

The guy has been decent all along, even when he didn't have to. His feedback is great too. I could be had, but if I work on that assumption I might be a dick to a nice guy. I don't think I want to be a dick.

I opened up the defective part yesterday, as it's dead simple and not much can be wrong. All the wires are in the right place and poking around with the multimeter didn't show much either. It's visibly brand new, so I'm a bit surprised.

You should trust your judgement, of course.

I was talking to someone at the local Hackspace last night, and he made an interesting observation. I make no comment on its accuracy or inaccuracy. In the "west" it is normal to start a price high and then move the price down. In the "east" it is normal to start the price low and then move it up, and face can be gained by selling something at more than it is worth. It would be interesting to read Bunny Huang's book on doing business in Shenzen to see if that sheds any light.

Having said that, in the UK it is normal for outsourcing firms to lowball bits on the grounds they will be able to up the price once they've achieved vendor lockin.

[TheUnnamedNewbie]

So I have some more info on my HP 8657A. The post office received it for sorting today and it should be at my door tomorrow.
The unfortunate and confusing part is the import cost. I was aware I would have to pay import, and I was always told it was 21% of the price you payed + 12 EUR administrative costs. I payed 200 USD for the signal generator, which is about 168 EUR. 21% of that is about 35 EUR. Add 12 EUR admin. costs and I'm looking at just shy of 50 euros import. But they are charging me 97 euros! that is twice as much as the cost I calculate!

I will pay up because well, I have to, but I want to know more details about this. As I was planning on purchasing some other stuff of ebay in the future that is worth a significantly larger sum, I don' t want to be surprised with higher import charges there as well.

Anyone know where I went wrong in my ball-park estimate that turned out to be only half of the actual import cost?

I think you missed a couple of costs... This is how it works (I think)

First the import duties are calculated (this is NOT the same as the VAT of 21%). Import percentage varies of the item type purchased. It can be as high as 17%. Import duties are calculated on the item value + shipping costs, so if your item cost was 168€ and shipping 32€, and import duties 17%, this would result in 34€ import duties.

Ad 30€ for customs paperwork to this. Your total amount is now 168€+32€+34€+30€ = 264€. On this total amount you have to pay 21% VAT (yes, also on shipping costs, import duties AND customs paperwork!). In this example this means another 56€.

So in my calculation (if shipping was 32€ and import 17%), you would have to pay 34€+30€+56€ = 120€! If shipping was lower, or import category was less expensive, you will arrive at your 97€ ...

So not cheap importing in Belgium!

That why I like the Ebay Global Shipping program, no unpleasant surprises afterwards, and typically less expensive to ship and import (why, I have no idea, but I guess our customs defaults to maximum, and with Ebay Global Shipping, paperwork is done by Ebay, and imports is not default max)

Yes, you are correct. There are online calculators that you can use apparently, and they give comparable numbers.

I was misinformed because I believe the people that told me had much cheaper items and just got a added 21% slapped on to their cost. I don't know what determines this? Perhaps because this is not classed as a consumer product and I therefor have to pay a good amount of tax?

Ah well, nothing I can do about it now. Still comes out as a very good price on what I orderd I think. As we say in dutch, it is some good "leergeld".