Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[bd139]

Oh those are rather nice. Just a heads up as I had the misfortune of blowing one up once while working in the TG department at my first job. Keep the tips grounded or tied together. They are connected directly to the FET gates. One bit of static and it's the end of the front end FETs which are rather fragile. They are selected 2N4416A's so aren't difficult to get hold of fortunately. I learned how to use a curve tracer that week! 

Let me know if the FETs don't work as I have a ton of them available.

[Mr. Scram]

I bought a bunch of these buggers, thinking I would clip them to regular banana leads, but the connector is flattened and seems to be incapable of receiving a banana plug properly. It's the same with all of them, so it doesn't seem to be damage.

Am I missing something or has this item been mislabeled?

https://www.ebay.nl/itm/4PCS-Crocodile-Alligator-Clip-for-4mm-Banana-Plug-Power-Supply-Test-Probes-Hot/182782687732

[Mr. Scram]

Yes I do, but in reality what is the harm in it? I'm not doing anything illegal and neither are the people whom I talk to I suspect seeing as they are in the main either companies or family members??

To provide a recent and real life example: this week the news reported that UK police have arrested people on suspicion of child abuse charges. These people were locked up, had their homes were searched, their hardware was seized and sifted through and their children were taken away. It turns out the police have made mistakes with IP addresses and these people were innocent of what they were accused of.

You don't want your information floating around everywhere, even if it's just an IP address. You don't have any control over where it ends up and how it's interpreted. You wouldn't wish that kind of hell upon anyone.

[Specmaster]

I bought a bunch of these buggers, thinking I would clip them to regular banana leads, but the connector is flattened and seems to be incapable of receiving a banana plug properly. It's the same with all of them, so it doesn't seem to be damage.

Am I missing something or has this item been mislabeled?

https://www.ebay.nl/itm/4PCS-Crocodile-Alligator-Clip-for-4mm-Banana-Plug-Power-Supply-Test-Probes-Hot/182782687732

I had the same issue, got a full refund and the clips are in my parts bin waiting for something that could use them.

[tggzzz]

I bought a bunch of these buggers, thinking I would clip them to regular banana leads, but the connector is flattened and seems to be incapable of receiving a banana plug properly. It's the same with all of them, so it doesn't seem to be damage.

Am I missing something or has this item been mislabeled?

https://www.ebay.nl/itm/4PCS-Crocodile-Alligator-Clip-for-4mm-Banana-Plug-Power-Supply-Test-Probes-Hot/182782687732

I have some which look similar: a couple of flat plates with a small "hole" in between them. I suspect the "hole" is meant to slip on the end of a bog-standard circuit test probe, which has a 4mm banana plug on the other end.

Whether it is misdescribed appears subject to interpretation; I would contact the supplier so they can improve the description and provide a picture.

[HalFET]

The 5200A was delivered at my parents or their neighbours, woohoooo! 

In other news, managed to clean up the PCB of the Wayne Kerr impedance analyser pretty well, so with some luck the display will work again once I solder the wires to the board. But didn't want to put in too much work on a Friday before the holidays.

[mnementh]

Well I have had a little play with the T12 now and I'm really gob smacked, this thing is so tiny, especially when compared with a normal Hakko and yet it packs a real punch the chisel head is again so small in comparison to a 936 head yet it managed to make a good connection to the tin sponge tray of the 936's iron stand in just a few seconds and it was effortless, never even had to apply the boost function.

Internal construction was fine, no problems there at all, even had some low ESR 105C caps in the power supply, all solder joints seem to fine and dandy, flow soldered and works a treat, Found some rubber feet that had fallen out of the box, stuck them on and its fine and stable and the case does not even get warm during soldering.




Whats not to like about it?

To think it was only £9 more than I paid for 936 and it came with 5 sealed heaters and tips, bargain. 

Glad you're pleased with the model you received... and thanks for evangelizing! I was equally amazed at the quality of what I received for the dosh!

I see these little beasties making the name brands sit up and take notice; maybe produce a little better product at the bottom end of the line. Of course no name brand's gonna rebrand these even for their bottom of the line; any Western company that touches them will get sued inside out.


mnem
I'm all out of "pithy" right now.

As you saw in my later posting its not all good, it does have its warts as well, big ones. It's as bd139 pointed out, if they only spent a little more money putting it together safely, it would be spot on. If it put another £2 on the price, it would still be a good bargain and would compare favourably against the big Western names costing many more times the price. Why oh why do do these companies not see the errors they make and put it right. Who knows what heights they could reach if only they paid a bit more attention to the what the global market demands in terms of safety?

Yeah, I saw that after I posted, but my bed was calling me.

This is why I prefer to build it myself from parts; you get more for your money and you know it's built right.

You want top quality, you have to pay for it one way or another; either in cash up front or in time to make this sort of China-Direct "Hobbyist Gear" into something safe and fully functional. This stuff is sold to a different market altogether; YOU are cutting out the "middleman" by being the importer yourself. This means YOU are taking on the responsibility of making sure the product you import is in any way suitable for intent and that it is safe to use. You cannot expect his kind of "Hobbyist Equipment" to meet ANY electrical code standards of ANY sort and YOU get to be "Quality Control" on what you import for yourself.

These things are sold as "Experimental Electronics" just like all the China-Direct RC hobbyist gear I buy. If you want it to meet "Consumer Electronics" standards for safety and quality control, you need to buy a name brand product and pay the difference in price. Just because it comes in a box doesn't make it any less so than the bare PCBs I bought for my builds.

Ok so did my research.

Have ordered the DC input version from: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MINI-T12-OLED-soldering-station-electronic-welding-iron-2017-New-design-DC-Version-Portable-T12-Digital/32839523934.html

Have located a suitable power supply from CPC: http://cpc.farnell.com/powerpax/sw4500-w/psu-desktop-12v-3-5a-2-1mm-white/dp/PW03761 - will order this when the iron turns up (just in case it doesn't!)

I'll actually use it for assembling some boards when it arrives and do an objective comparison to the Weller TCP,  Antex XS iron and my Aoyue 937 (which I found the other day in the back of the cupboard). Gives me an excuse to use the thermocouple on my new DMM as well.

You DO NOT want that 12V power supply; the RANGE is 12-24V (Actually, I run mine on regulated 28V) and it will FUNCTION on 12V, but at half the wattage. This unit is made for folks who want to take advantage of whatever leftover laptop power brick they have lying around to power it. Most of those out there have a 5.5mm barrel plug and produce 19-20V @3-7A, and many of the rest can easily be converted with a cheap barrel plug. It will operate acceptably at that power level, but is not optimal. Apple did have some back in the day that were 24V; but they're not that common.


mnem
*Juicy*

[bd139]

That's for the heads up. I have actually decided to cheap out on the power supply because I was sure I had something better lying around.

Guess what I found? A nice high quality unused genuine Lenovo 90W (20V 4.5A) one which should do the trick slightly better. I've also got a Lenovo socket on a jumper which was destined as a spare for my old T400 so I will bodge that onto a 5.5 barrel and job done.

[Specmaster]

Well I have had a little play with the T12 now and I'm really gob smacked, this thing is so tiny, especially when compared with a normal Hakko and yet it packs a real punch the chisel head is again so small in comparison to a 936 head yet it managed to make a good connection to the tin sponge tray of the 936's iron stand in just a few seconds and it was effortless, never even had to apply the boost function.

Internal construction was fine, no problems there at all, even had some low ESR 105C caps in the power supply, all solder joints seem to fine and dandy, flow soldered and works a treat, Found some rubber feet that had fallen out of the box, stuck them on and its fine and stable and the case does not even get warm during soldering.




Whats not to like about it?

To think it was only £9 more than I paid for 936 and it came with 5 sealed heaters and tips, bargain. 

Glad you're pleased with the model you received... and thanks for evangelizing! I was equally amazed at the quality of what I received for the dosh!

I see these little beasties making the name brands sit up and take notice; maybe produce a little better product at the bottom end of the line. Of course no name brand's gonna rebrand these even for their bottom of the line; any Western company that touches them will get sued inside out.


mnem
I'm all out of "pithy" right now.

As you saw in my later posting its not all good, it does have its warts as well, big ones. It's as bd139 pointed out, if they only spent a little more money putting it together safely, it would be spot on. If it put another £2 on the price, it would still be a good bargain and would compare favourably against the big Western names costing many more times the price. Why oh why do do these companies not see the errors they make and put it right. Who knows what heights they could reach if only they paid a bit more attention to the what the global market demands in terms of safety?

Yeah, I saw that after I posted, but my bed was calling me.

This is why I prefer to build it myself from parts; you get more for your money and you know it's built right.

You want top quality, you have to pay for it one way or another; either in cash up front or in time to make this sort of China-Direct "Hobbyist Gear" into something safe and fully functional. This stuff is sold to a different market altogether; YOU are cutting out the "middleman" by being the importer yourself. This means YOU are taking on the responsibility of making sure the product you import is in any way suitable for intent and that it is safe to use. You cannot expect his kind of "Hobbyist Equipment" to meet ANY electrical code standards of ANY sort and YOU get to be "Quality Control" on what you import for yourself.

These things are sold as "Experimental Electronics" just like all the China-Direct RC hobbyist gear I buy. If you want it to meet "Consumer Electronics" standards for safety and quality control, you need to buy a name brand product and pay the difference in price. Just because it comes in a box doesn't make it any less so than the bare PCBs I bought for my builds.

Ok so did my research.

Have ordered the DC input version from: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MINI-T12-OLED-soldering-station-electronic-welding-iron-2017-New-design-DC-Version-Portable-T12-Digital/32839523934.html

Have located a suitable power supply from CPC: http://cpc.farnell.com/powerpax/sw4500-w/psu-desktop-12v-3-5a-2-1mm-white/dp/PW03761 - will order this when the iron turns up (just in case it doesn't!)

I'll actually use it for assembling some boards when it arrives and do an objective comparison to the Weller TCP,  Antex XS iron and my Aoyue 937 (which I found the other day in the back of the cupboard). Gives me an excuse to use the thermocouple on my new DMM as well.

You DO NOT want that 12V power supply; the RANGE is 12-24V (Actually, I run mine on regulated 28V) and it will FUNCTION on 12V, but at half the wattage. This unit is made for folks who want to take advantage of whatever leftover laptop power brick they have lying around to power it. Most of those out there have a 5.5mm barrel plug and produce 19-20V @3-7A, and many of the rest can easily be converted with a cheap barrel plug. It will operate acceptably at that power level, but is not optimal. Apple did have some back in the day that were 24V; but they're not that common.


mnem
*Juicy*

Well I can make it as safe as possible, earthing is not really a problem with a bit of thought. If was possible to buy the main enclosure top and bottom sections by the inch, then sorting the in coming supply would not be a problem either. Yes the enclosure is sold as an extra but I believe it to be the same size.

[Specmaster]

That's for the heads up. I have actually decided to cheap out on the power supply because I was sure I had something better lying around.

Guess what I found? A nice high quality unused genuine Lenovo 90W (20V 4.5A) one which should do the trick slightly better. I've also got a Lenovo socket on a jumper which was destined as a spare for my old T400 so I will bodge that onto a 5.5 barrel and job done.

I have one of those laying around to, so I'll do the same as well. Then if they
 want this one returning I'll still have a  T12, if they don't then I'll have 2 and can fit the must used tips in  both and not have to wait to change tips over [emoji23]

[mnementh]

That's for the heads up. I have actually decided to cheap out on the power supply because I was sure I had something better lying around.

Guess what I found? A nice high quality unused genuine Lenovo 90W (20V 4.5A) one which should do the trick slightly better. I've also got a Lenovo socket on a jumper which was destined as a spare for my old T400 so I will bodge that onto a 5.5 barrel and job done.

Or you could just put a grommet on the back of the box and solder the wires inside... those 5.5mm panel mount jacks vary HUGELY in quality, while the Lenovo triaxial plugs were very reliable. Not that impressed with their new "looks liek a USB" power connector tho. Whomever thought that one up needs a good swift kick in the junk. 


mnem
I'm not advocating violence; more a judicious application of percussive maintenance. 

[Neomys Sapiens]

Easily solved. Just need a portable earth 

Do you have any context information on this picture?

[bd139]

That's for the heads up. I have actually decided to cheap out on the power supply because I was sure I had something better lying around.

Guess what I found? A nice high quality unused genuine Lenovo 90W (20V 4.5A) one which should do the trick slightly better. I've also got a Lenovo socket on a jumper which was destined as a spare for my old T400 so I will bodge that onto a 5.5 barrel and job done.

Or you could just put a grommet on the back of the box and solder the wires inside... those 5.5mm panel mount jacks vary HUGELY in quality, while the Lenovo triaxial plugs were very reliable. Not that impressed with their new "looks liek a USB" power connector tho. Whomever thought that one up needs a good swift kick in the junk. 


mnem
I'm not advocating violence; more a judicious application of percussive maintenance. 

Not a bad idea. Will evaluate when it turns up

New USB shaped ones are quite good. Very reliable and doesn’t matter which way up. Got one on my T440.

Easily solved. Just need a portable earth 

Do you have any context information on this picture?

Absolutely none unfortunately. It’s in my “wtf” pictures directory.

[bitseeker]

This is the frustrating bit. Some of the designs are spot on bar a few mistakes and cost cutting. Excuse the rant here but it annoyed me...

I feel your pain, and not only with regard to T&M equipment. There's so much crap software around, too. Drives me crazy with the "if they just..." thoughts.

Comparing the implementations between a £50 Mastech and a £627 Keysight/HP supply (yes thats full retail difference) ...

Mastech. Simple comparator using a left over LM324 and transistor to sample the output voltage and switch the relay on and off to select taps if it goes more than half of the power supply range. Blows up after 6 months.

HP. Simple comparator using a left over LM393 and a transistor to sample the output voltage and switch a couple of SCRs on and off to select taps if it goes more than half of the power supply range. Still works after 23 years.

Hang on a minute? That HP one is entirely solid state! Nothing mechanical to fail! How much does an SCR cost? sweet f-all! There's no patent on this idea, not that anyone cares in China. Price differential is at most half a dollar.

The BOM cost of the HP and the Mastech are actually about the same per channel. There's bugger all in either of them. Just some better quality pots and some marginally better quality components in the HP.

So close but so far  ... and this is frustrating because I'd rather spent the price of a Mastech power supply than an HP one! In fact despite the explosion, the mastech one is easier to maintain. Also the comedy bit is the metering on the mastech is less crap.

It does make you wonder, doesn't it? In general, I think the deficiency is a form of cost cutting — no changes to the design means no time/money spent thinking, prototyping, etc. So, then why would some aspects be better on the cheap device? Perhaps someone else incurred the cost for that improvement and it just came along for the ride when the manufacturer received the files.

In other words, putting in that extra effort may simply be unnecessary in the current market. If their stuff sells as-is, it ain't broke and they ain't gonna fix it.

Perhaps I should build an aftermarket "mastech power supply engine" which you can just rip the one out in it and stick a decent one in.

That would be interesting to explore. Of course, a big question is whether the numbers would work out. What would the cost of the better replacement engine (and the resources to do the swap) be compared to tossingrecycling the dead supply and buying another el cheapo? Unfortunately, the market is quite adept at overlooking the long-term value for a cheap solution today.

[bd139]

Hopefully the Chinese will clone my design then I can brand it and import it and top slice a few quid for doing bugger all in the supply chain 

[bitseeker]

Hey, now that's one way to solve the economics of it. Leverage piracycloning for your benefit.

Well, if you make a thread about how to improve it with all the requisite documentation, it may just get around. Meanwhile, it'll be useful for those on the forum who can make the mods to their existing supplies.

[mnementh]

That's for the heads up. I have actually decided to cheap out on the power supply because I was sure I had something better lying around.

Guess what I found? A nice high quality unused genuine Lenovo 90W (20V 4.5A) one which should do the trick slightly better. I've also got a Lenovo socket on a jumper which was destined as a spare for my old T400 so I will bodge that onto a 5.5 barrel and job done.

Or you could just put a grommet on the back of the box and solder the wires inside... those 5.5mm panel mount jacks vary HUGELY in quality, while the Lenovo triaxial plugs were very reliable. Not that impressed with their new "looks liek a USB" power connector tho. Whomever thought that one up needs a good swift kick in the junk. 


mnem
I'm not advocating violence; more a judicious application of percussive maintenance. 

Not a bad idea. Will evaluate when it turns up

New USB shaped ones are quite good. Very reliable and doesn’t matter which way up. Got one on my T440.

Maybe from the standpoint of a reasonably tech-savvy person using a single unit, yes. From the standpoint of someone managing a fleet of them deployed to average users, they are a disaster, and that is supposedly the market Lenovo caters to. They BEG people to try and plug them in the wrong hole, or to try and plug a USB into them... when I moved away from VISD, we had 280 units deployed for less than 3 months on my one campus, and already 17 units down with broken USB, Ethernet and power ports because these were all on the same side of the unit in a row.

Don't get me wrong; we had issues with people jamming USB cables into the ethernet port on older models... but more like maybe 5-10 units in a YEAR. This layout just INVITES stupidity to do its worst.


mnem
NEVER taunt Murphy.

[HalFET]

Writing this from a thinkpad I can tell you I plugged my power cable into my ethernet port more than a few times, though both still work perfectly fine after 3.5 years of daily heavy usage.

[Specmaster]

That's for the heads up. I have actually decided to cheap out on the power supply because I was sure I had something better lying around.

Guess what I found? A nice high quality unused genuine Lenovo 90W (20V 4.5A) one which should do the trick slightly better. I've also got a Lenovo socket on a jumper which was destined as a spare for my old T400 so I will bodge that onto a 5.5 barrel and job done.

Or you could just put a grommet on the back of the box and solder the wires inside... those 5.5mm panel mount jacks vary HUGELY in quality, while the Lenovo triaxial plugs were very reliable. Not that impressed with their new "looks liek a USB" power connector tho. Whomever thought that one up needs a good swift kick in the junk. 


mnem
I'm not advocating violence; more a judicious application of percussive maintenance. 

Not a bad idea. Will evaluate when it turns up

New USB shaped ones are quite good. Very reliable and doesn’t matter which way up. Got one on my T440.

Maybe from the standpoint of a reasonably tech-savvy person using a single unit, yes. From the standpoint of someone managing a fleet of them deployed to average users, they are a disaster, and that is supposedly the market Lenovo caters to. They BEG people to try and plug them in the wrong hole, or to try and plug a USB into them... when I moved away from VISD, we had 280 units deployed for less than 3 months on my one campus, and already 17 units down with broken USB, Ethernet and power ports because these were all on the same side of the unit in a row.

Don't get me wrong; we had issues with people jamming USB cables into the ethernet port on older models... but more like maybe 5-10 units in a YEAR. This layout just INVITES stupidity to do its worst.


mnem
NEVER taunt Murphy.

You don't need to invite Murphy, he'll always show up especially when you don't want him to. [emoji23]

[bd139]

There be numpties everywhere it appears.

Some as yet unidentified individual blocked up a toilet with a mouse mat this week. Looked like they had rolled it up to poke a floater down and it went below the water line so they didn’t want to touch it. I was invited to see the spectacle. Cleaners said it was beyond their remit and called operations cue someone appearing with some pliers and a Tesco bag over their hand. You can’t win.

[Specmaster]

There be numpties everywhere it appears.

Some as yet unidentified individual blocked up a toilet with a mouse mat this week. Looked like they had rolled it up to poke a floater down and it went below the water line so they didn’t want to touch it. I was invited to see the spectacle. Cleaners said it was beyond their remit and called operations cue someone appearing with some pliers and a Tesco bag over their hand. You can’t win.

That person with the pliers and bag, you by any chance?

[bitseeker]

New USB shaped ones are quite good. Very reliable and doesn’t matter which way up. Got one on my T440.

Maybe from the standpoint of a reasonably tech-savvy person using a single unit, yes. From the standpoint of someone managing a fleet of them deployed to average users, they are a disaster, and that is supposedly the market Lenovo caters to.

There be numpties everywhere it appears.

No need for a zombie apocalypse. The general public is pretty scary as-is.

[bd139]

They bloody are.

There be numpties everywhere it appears.

Some as yet unidentified individual blocked up a toilet with a mouse mat this week. Looked like they had rolled it up to poke a floater down and it went below the water line so they didn’t want to touch it. I was invited to see the spectacle. Cleaners said it was beyond their remit and called operations cue someone appearing with some pliers and a Tesco bag over their hand. You can’t win.

That person with the pliers and bag, you by any chance?

I outranked the holder of the pliers, fortunately for me.

Back on the subject of TEA I have another borderline hopeless bit of test gear on the watch list. Doesn’t power up, doesn’t work, looks like something has died on top of it. I feel sorry for it though. Hoping for a low ending price but you know how mental eBay is at the moment.

[Specmaster]

They bloody are.

There be numpties everywhere it appears.

Some as yet unidentified individual blocked up a toilet with a mouse mat this week. Looked like they had rolled it up to poke a floater down and it went below the water line so they didn’t want to touch it. I was invited to see the spectacle. Cleaners said it was beyond their remit and called operations cue someone appearing with some pliers and a Tesco bag over their hand. You can’t win.

That person with the pliers and bag, you by any chance?

I outranked the holder of the pliers, fortunately for me.

Back on the subject of TEA I have another borderline hopeless bit of test gear on the watch list. Doesn’t power up, doesn’t work, looks like something has died on top of it. I feel sorry for it though. Hoping for a low ending price but you know how mental eBay is at the moment.

Oh what did the lower rank worker say when they discovered it was your mouse mat [emoji23]
As regards Tea I've given up on ebay till the new year, maybe it will get back to normal then. Good find that mini T12 I'm sorely tempted to get one, I'm so impressed with the other one despite its safety issues, something the mini won't have. [emoji106]

[bitseeker]

Hoping for a low ending price but you know how mental eBay is at the moment.

Yeah, tell me about it. Even broken (as in chunks missing) stuff has gone mental.