Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mnementh]

Well I have had a little play with the T12 now and I'm really gob smacked, this thing is so tiny, especially when compared with a normal Hakko and yet it packs a real punch the chisel head is again so small in comparison to a 936 head yet it managed to make a good connection to the tin sponge tray of the 936's iron stand in just a few seconds and it was effortless, never even had to apply the boost function.

Internal construction was fine, no problems there at all, even had some low ESR 105C caps in the power supply, all solder joints seem to fine and dandy, flow soldered and works a treat, Found some rubber feet that had fallen out of the box, stuck them on and its fine and stable and the case does not even get warm during soldering.




Whats not to like about it?

To think it was only £9 more than I paid for 936 and it came with 5 sealed heaters and tips, bargain. 

Glad you're pleased with the model you received... and thanks for evangelizing! I was equally amazed at the quality of what I received for the dosh!

I see these little beasties making the name brands sit up and take notice; maybe produce a little better product at the bottom end of the line. Of course no name brand's gonna rebrand these even for their bottom of the line; any Western company that touches them will get sued inside out.


mnem
I'm all out of "pithy" right now.

[bitseeker]

0.02% from 10 ohms on up, 0.03% 1-10 and a bit more below that.

Wow!

Perfect size for prototyping my next Arduino Nano project with

Yeah, I'm sure you could fit a bunch of them inside. 

[Vgkid]

Correct individual taps. I had it delivered with an instruction book, some of it has been english translated along with circuit diagrams and spec sheet fairly bad copy but I will try and tidy it up and post some of it. 0.02% from 10 ohms on up, 0.03% 1-10 and a bit more below that.

Looks really good , I can't wait to see inside of it.

[Specmaster]

Well I have had a little play with the T12 now and I'm really gob smacked, this thing is so tiny, especially when compared with a normal Hakko and yet it packs a real punch the chisel head is again so small in comparison to a 936 head yet it managed to make a good connection to the tin sponge tray of the 936's iron stand in just a few seconds and it was effortless, never even had to apply the boost function.

Internal construction was fine, no problems there at all, even had some low ESR 105C caps in the power supply, all solder joints seem to fine and dandy, flow soldered and works a treat, Found some rubber feet that had fallen out of the box, stuck them on and its fine and stable and the case does not even get warm during soldering.




Whats not to like about it?

To think it was only £9 more than I paid for 936 and it came with 5 sealed heaters and tips, bargain. 

Glad you're pleased with the model you received... and thanks for evangelizing! I was equally amazed at the quality of what I received for the dosh!

I see these little beasties making the name brands sit up and take notice; maybe produce a little better product at the bottom end of the line. Of course no name brand's gonna rebrand these even for their bottom of the line; any Western company that touches them will get sued inside out.


mnem
I'm all out of "pithy" right now.

As you saw in my later posting its not all good, it does have its warts as well, big ones. It's as bd139 pointed out, if they only spent a little more money putting it together safely, it would be spot on. If it put another £2 on the price, it would still be a good bargain and would compare favourably against the big Western names costing many more times the price. Why oh why do do these companies not see the errors they make and put it right. Who knows what heights they could reach if only they paid a bit more attention to the what the global market demands in terms of safety?

[Mr. Scram]

That'd do the trick nicely. This is always the thing that annoys me about some of the cheaper kit. They literally could spent half a dollar more on it and hit the mark. It'd be spot on then.

I reckon they'll probably ignore it or give you money back and tell you to keep it (win win).

Reminds me of this google link I saw the other day when I was looking for dangerous goods recalls:

What the hell? It's just action figures. Is the show called that?

[bd139]

As you saw in my later posting its not all good, it does have its warts as well, big ones. It's as bd139 pointed out, if they only spent a little more money putting it together safely, it would be spot on. If it put another £2 on the price, it would still be a good bargain and would compare favourably against the big Western names costing many more times the price. Why oh why do do these companies not see the errors they make and put it right. Who knows what heights they could reach if only they paid a bit more attention to the what the global market demands in terms of safety?

This is the frustrating bit. Some of the designs are spot on bar a few mistakes and cost cutting. Excuse the rant here but it annoyed me...

One of the really annoying things is the cheap Mastech power supplies. When they work they are absolutely spot on bits of kit, up there with even HP and TTi believe it or not on the transient and noise front. Problem is that every part is pushed to the line if not slightly past it failure is inevitable eventually. I had an HY1803D a few years ago. 3A out, 18V, fully linear. CV/CC mode. Great for radios. Noise was good. Transient response was good. Really cheap bit of kit - was £50 or so from Rapid.

That was until suddenly I got 27V out of it which ruined my day at the time as I was playing around with sensitive low Vce RF transistors which promptly ejected their souls.  So what happened? Well they use a relay to switch taps on the primary transformer so that the main power transistor doesn't have to dissipate to much power which keeps VCE down as VCE*IC=PD.  However the damn relay fails after about 6 months and then the entire thing starts burning off a lot of power. This blows the arse out of the hooky 2n3055 they use as the main transistor and then it goes VCE short so you get the full voltage out.

Comparing the implementations between a £50 Mastech and a £627 Keysight/HP supply (yes thats full retail difference) ...

Mastech. Simple comparator using a left over LM324 and transistor to sample the output voltage and switch the relay on and off to select taps if it goes more than half of the power supply range. Blows up after 6 months.

HP. Simple comparator using a left over LM393 and a transistor to sample the output voltage and switch a couple of SCRs on and off to select taps if it goes more than half of the power supply range. Still works after 23 years.

Hang on a minute? That HP one is entirely solid state! Nothing mechanical to fail! How much does an SCR cost? sweet f-all! There's no patent on this idea, not that anyone cares in China. Price differential is at most half a dollar.

The BOM cost of the HP and the Mastech are actually about the same per channel. There's bugger all in either of them. Just some better quality pots and some marginally better quality components in the HP.

So close but so far  ... and this is frustrating because I'd rather spent the price of a Mastech power supply than an HP one! In fact despite the explosion, the mastech one is easier to maintain. Also the comedy bit is the metering on the mastech is less crap.

Perhaps I should build an aftermarket "mastech power supply engine" which you can just rip the one out in it and stick a decent one in.

[Calambres]

That Quicko T12-952 soldering station is an Ali-Express exclusive?

Ali-express won't accept Paypal and that, for me, is a no-no...

[Specmaster]

As you saw in my later posting its not all good, it does have its warts as well, big ones. It's as bd139 pointed out, if they only spent a little more money putting it together safely, it would be spot on. If it put another £2 on the price, it would still be a good bargain and would compare favourably against the big Western names costing many more times the price. Why oh why do do these companies not see the errors they make and put it right. Who knows what heights they could reach if only they paid a bit more attention to the what the global market demands in terms of safety?

This is the frustrating bit. Some of the designs are spot on bar a few mistakes and cost cutting. Excuse the rant here but it annoyed me...

One of the really annoying things is the cheap Mastech power supplies. When they work they are absolutely spot on bits of kit, up there with even HP and TTi believe it or not on the transient and noise front. Problem is that every part is pushed to the line if not slightly past it failure is inevitable eventually. I had an HY1803D a few years ago. 3A out, 18V, fully linear. CV/CC mode. Great for radios. Noise was good. Transient response was good. Really cheap bit of kit - was £50 or so from Rapid.

That was until suddenly I got 27V out of it which ruined my day at the time as I was playing around with sensitive low Vce RF transistors which promptly ejected their souls.  So what happened? Well they use a relay to switch taps on the primary transformer so that the main power transistor doesn't have to dissipate to much power which keeps VCE down as VCE*IC=PD.  However the damn relay fails after about 6 months and then the entire thing starts burning off a lot of power. This blows the arse out of the hooky 2n3055 they use as the main transistor and then it goes VCE short so you get the full voltage out.

Comparing the implementations between a £50 Mastech and a £627 Keysight/HP supply (yes thats full retail difference) ...

Mastech. Simple comparator using a left over LM324 and transistor to sample the output voltage and switch the relay on and off to select taps if it goes more than half of the power supply range. Blows up after 6 months.

HP. Simple comparator using a left over LM393 and a transistor to sample the output voltage and switch a couple of SCRs on and off to select taps if it goes more than half of the power supply range. Still works after 23 years.

Hang on a minute? That HP one is entirely solid state! Nothing mechanical to fail! How much does an SCR cost? sweet f-all! There's no patent on this idea, not that anyone cares in China. Price differential is at most half a dollar.

The BOM cost of the HP and the Mastech are actually about the same per channel. There's bugger all in either of them. Just some better quality pots and some marginally better quality components in the HP.

So close but so far  ... and this is frustrating because I'd rather spent the price of a Mastech power supply than an HP one! In fact despite the explosion, the mastech one is easier to maintain. Also the comedy bit is the metering on the mastech is less crap.

Perhaps I should build an aftermarket "mastech power supply engine" which you can just rip the one out in it and stick a decent one in.

Yes I think you could also chuck in that same pot their LCR testers especially the XJW01 which I think is only let down by the crappie plastic case and the user interface buttons. It has the feel of a homemade device and a bit polish in the final assembly would be beneficial.

[Specmaster]

That Quicko T12-952 soldering station is an Ali-Express exclusive?

Ali-express won't accept Paypal and that, for me, is a no-no...

You can get comparable ones from Banggood built up or buy the parts as modules and put together yourself. But you're right Quicko is as far as I know only sold via Ali Express. I have also seen the same kind of system for sale on Ebay where you can use PayPal.

[bd139]

Looks like they sell kits as well so you can at least have the opportunity to correct a sin or two

[Specmaster]

Looks like they sell kits as well so you can at least have the opportunity to correct a sin or two

Apart from the IEC socket as the cases are all tight for space.

[bd139]

Think I found a solution for that. They do one which doesn't have a mains inlet so you can use a wall wart switcher (which is double insulated etc):

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MINI-T12-OLED-soldering-station-electronic-welding-iron-2017-New-design-DC-Version-Portable-T12-Digital/32839523934.html

Edit: might buy one of these. Can use it off a car battery then.

Edit 2: anyone know where I can get genuine hakko tips to go with it?

Edit 3: actually forget the above. It will not have an earthed tip at which point which will cause all sorts of problems.

[Specmaster]

Think I found a solution for that. They do one which doesn't have a mains inlet so you can use a wall wart switcher (which is double insulated etc):

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MINI-T12-OLED-soldering-station-electronic-welding-iron-2017-New-design-DC-Version-Portable-T12-Digital/32839523934.html

Edit: might buy one of these. Can use it off a car battery then.

Edit 2: anyone know where I can get genuine hakko tips to go with it?

Edit 3: actually forget the above. It will not have an earthed tip at which point which will cause all sorts of problems.

Cool, you would surely need a linear wall wart rather then a switcher? I might just grab one one of them myself, save switching tips over.

[Calambres]

You can get comparable ones from Banggood built up or buy the parts as modules and put together yourself. But you're right Quicko is as far as I know only sold via Ali Express. I have also seen the same kind of system for sale on Ebay where you can use PayPal.

Banggood also admit paypal but the clones sold there are somewhat different as well as those in ebay. In seems the Quicko is a bit more refined in its menu systems. That and the fact that it has been reviewed here as a decent unit leans me towards this model. Regarding ebay from China, it has been a source of problems for me recently with exceedingly slow and/or failed deliveries. I've had good experience with banggood but their T12 clones seem to me of a lesser quality than the Quicko.

Don't know why paypal is cited as a valid paying method in the Ali-Express international site but not for Europe 

[bd139]

Think I found a solution for that. They do one which doesn't have a mains inlet so you can use a wall wart switcher (which is double insulated etc):

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MINI-T12-OLED-soldering-station-electronic-welding-iron-2017-New-design-DC-Version-Portable-T12-Digital/32839523934.html

Edit: might buy one of these. Can use it off a car battery then.

Edit 2: anyone know where I can get genuine hakko tips to go with it?

Edit 3: actually forget the above. It will not have an earthed tip at which point which will cause all sorts of problems.

Cool, you would surely need a linear wall wart rather then a switcher? I might just grab one one of them myself, save switching tips over.

Switching wall wart is fine. The mains one is just a switching power supply inside the unit. All that does is make it external and avoid putting the dangerous things inside the box. Still an earth problem though although I suspect putting a 4mm socket on the back and connecting that to a separate earth strap would do the job adequately.

[Specmaster]

Think I found a solution for that. They do one which doesn't have a mains inlet so you can use a wall wart switcher (which is double insulated etc):

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MINI-T12-OLED-soldering-station-electronic-welding-iron-2017-New-design-DC-Version-Portable-T12-Digital/32839523934.html

Edit: might buy one of these. Can use it off a car battery then.

Edit 2: anyone know where I can get genuine hakko tips to go with it?

Edit 3: actually forget the above. It will not have an earthed tip at which point which will cause all sorts of problems.

If your running it from a car battery, especially as a portable tool, you have no earth anyway.

[bd139]

Easily solved. Just need a portable earth 

[Specmaster]

Easily solved. Just need a portable earth 

Lol that's one solution, but I'm not volunteering to test it ok[emoji23]

[Specmaster]

You can get comparable ones from Banggood built up or buy the parts as modules and put together yourself. But you're right Quicko is as far as I know only sold via Ali Express. I have also seen the same kind of system for sale on Ebay where you can use PayPal.

Banggood also admit paypal but the clones sold there are somewhat different as well as those in ebay. In seems the Quicko is a bit more refined in its menu systems. That and the fact that it has been reviewed here as a decent unit leans me towards this model. Regarding ebay from China, it has been a source of problems for me recently with exceedingly slow and/or failed deliveries. I've had good experience with banggood but their T12 clones seem to me of a lesser quality than the Quicko.

Don't know why paypal is cited as a valid paying method in the Ali-Express international site but not for Europe 

I think the menu system on some of the Banggood ones is the same, or provides the same functions.

[Calambres]

I think the menu system on some of the Banggood ones is the same, or provides the same functions.

I just talked to Ali's customer service and they said that the paypal availability depends not on the region but on the item itself. This Quicko station cannot be paid with Paypal... other items can. Go figure!

[Specmaster]

I think the menu system on some of the Banggood ones is the same, or provides the same functions.

I just talked to Ali's customer service and they said that the paypal availability depends not on the region but on the item itself. This Quicko station cannot be paid with Paypal... other items can. Go figure!

Easy, Ali Express is an agent for many companies and Quicko is one of them and it's Quicko who won't accept PayPal. It's also Quicko who will keep you informed of the delivery progress which is impressive.

[bd139]

Ok so did my research.

Have ordered the DC input version from: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MINI-T12-OLED-soldering-station-electronic-welding-iron-2017-New-design-DC-Version-Portable-T12-Digital/32839523934.html

Have located a suitable power supply from CPC: http://cpc.farnell.com/powerpax/sw4500-w/psu-desktop-12v-3-5a-2-1mm-white/dp/PW03761 - will order this when the iron turns up (just in case it doesn't!)

I'll actually use it for assembling some boards when it arrives and do an objective comparison to the Weller TCP,  Antex XS iron and my Aoyue 937 (which I found the other day in the back of the cupboard). Gives me an excuse to use the thermocouple on my new DMM as well.

[Specmaster]

Ok so did my research.

Have ordered the DC input version from: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MINI-T12-OLED-soldering-station-electronic-welding-iron-2017-New-design-DC-Version-Portable-T12-Digital/32839523934.html

Have located a suitable power supply from CPC: http://cpc.farnell.com/powerpax/sw4500-w/psu-desktop-12v-3-5a-2-1mm-white/dp/PW03761 - will order this when the iron turns up (just in case it doesn't!)

I'll actually use it for assembling some boards when it arrives and do an objective comparison to the Weller TCP,  Antex XS iron and my Aoyue 937 (which I found the other day in the back of the cupboard). Gives me an excuse to use the thermocouple on my new DMM as well.

Got myself a Hakko tester for irons, better then the k type thermocouples.

[bd139]

Agreed.

[capt bullshot]

Been looking for a differential FET probe for some time, now I've got one:



Purchased in unknown / untested state, haven't been able to test it yet. Anyway, apart from the rather crusty cables it looks in good condition and quite complete. Even includes an original Tek 50 Ohm terminator.