Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[tggzzz]

On the subject of voltnuttery, can someone recommend a stable absolute voltage reference IC that is off the shelf? I have a voltage reference which I am slightly suspicious of its authenticity at the moment and it's drifted 2mV in a year which is shit. This is without delving into (a) China imports or (b) a voltnut thread.

I am looking at the LM399 + LT1001 combo at the moment, burn it in for a couple of months, then brow beat someone I know who works in a cal lab to get a reference reading off it.

Only need something I can check a 4.5 digit DMM against. Not measure a nat's fart from space.

Boring 

Before I went mad, I made an adr4550 reference 5V+-1mV, plastic not metal. From memory it drifted several hundred uV over a ~2 months, "settled" at 5.00084V, and when I've turned it on recently it is 5.00145V. I'm a little disappointed, but it was a cheap quick'n'dirty experiment... unless you regard it as the gateway drug.

Do look at the voltnut threads and better datasheets to see what type of drift you might expect to see.

[beanflying]

On the subject of voltnuttery, can someone recommend a stable absolute voltage reference IC that is off the shelf? I have a voltage reference which I am slightly suspicious of its authenticity at the moment and it's drifted 2mV in a year which is shit. This is without delving into (a) China imports or (b) a voltnut thread.

I am looking at the LM399 + LT1001 combo at the moment, burn it in for a couple of months, then brow beat someone I know who works in a cal lab to get a reference reading off it.

Only need something I can check a 4.5 digit DMM against. Not measure a nat's fart from space.

I have built a couple of Max 6350's on sockets and breadboard. Check out the current 5V precision thread in Meterology at present for some pics of my bad soldering. Untrimmed more than up to the job of 3.5-4.5 digits over a reasonable temp range. I do have one of those KK Moon things on order too. In stock 2 LM399's to build and two LTZ1000's on back order .........

Don't mention the Vishay budget 

Down the rabbit hole and then some   

[Mr. Scram]

I have built a couple of Max 6350's on sockets and breadboard. Check out the current 5V precision thread in Meterology at present for some pics of my bad soldering. Untrimmed more than up to the job of 3.5-4.5 digits over a reasonable temp range. I do have one of those KK Moon things on order too. In stock 2 LM399's to build and two LTZ1000's on back order .........

Down the rabbit hole and then some   

I have one of those KK Moon references. Apparently it's the most accurate version of the reference, which is nice. They're likely to be pulls too, which means someone has properly burned them in for me.

Unfortunately the battery wasn't supplied and the one I ordered still hasn't turned up. I tried powering it directly with 3.7V, but strangely that will not work. Only when I fiddled with a charger and the 3.7V combined I could ever get it to do anything useful, but that's too much of a hassle.

[beanflying]

(I'm going to be kind, and try some aversion therapy....)

No, that's only the start, e.g.


But I would swap my working 7081 for a working hp3458.

Only have 2 Agilent 34970a's and a 34401a to play with so far. Thermal chamber is taking shape and space will be left for the big HP ......... 

[capt bullshot]

That blue display reminds of my VW Passat, that had lovely blue instrument lighting, uncommon on cars I think. 

Thank god VW dropped the blue instrument lights, I really hated this. Such blue light hurts my eyes. I'd never had bought that Golf if it had this blue light. Now they have white instrument lighting, but a quite cold white. I really liked the warm orange light my Renault had. I also dislike any kind of blue LED display or blue LED lighting - since to me it feels hurting my eyes.

[Mr. Scram]

Thank god VW dropped the blue instrument lights, I really hated this. Such blue light hurts my eyes. I'd never had bought that Golf if it had this blue light. Now they have white instrument lighting, but a quite cold white. I really liked the warm orange light my Renault had. I also dislike any kind of blue LED display or blue LED lighting - since to me it feels hurting my eyes.

I have no doubt the RGB craze will also hit cars sooner or later, especially considering gaming teens start driving cars just a few years later.

[capt bullshot]

Thank god VW dropped the blue instrument lights, I really hated this. Such blue light hurts my eyes. I'd never had bought that Golf if it had this blue light. Now they have white instrument lighting, but a quite cold white. I really liked the warm orange light my Renault had. I also dislike any kind of blue LED display or blue LED lighting - since to me it feels hurting my eyes.

I have no doubt the RGB craze will also hit cars sooner or later, especially considering gaming teens start driving cars just a few years later.

It already did: A rented Mercedes whatever model (I forgot) I had to use some time ago has "interiour lighting" that is adjustable in colour and brightness. It also nicely illuminated all the passengers feet (front and backseat). But it's GPS navigation wasn't able to pronounce some words properly and the automatic transmissions' lever is located a a very unusual place (for someone not used to Mercedes), so early in the morning it took us a few minutes to find it until we could leave the parking lot ...

[Mr. Scram]

It already did: A rented Mercedes whatever model (I forgot) I had to use some time ago has "interiour lighting" that is adjustable in colour and brightness. It also nicely illuminated all the passengers feet (front and backseat). But it's GPS navigation wasn't able to pronounce some words properly and the automatic transmissions' lever is located a a very unusual place (for someone not used to Mercedes), so early in the morning it took us a few minutes to find it until we could leave the parking lot ...

I don't think many first time motorists will be able to buy a Mercedes right away, so it'll need to spread a bit throughout the industry 

[Cerebus]

On the subject of voltnuttery, can someone recommend a stable absolute voltage reference IC that is off the shelf? I have a voltage reference which I am slightly suspicious of its authenticity at the moment and it's drifted 2mV in a year which is shit. This is without delving into (a) China imports or (b) a voltnut thread.

I am looking at the LM399 + LT1001 combo at the moment, burn it in for a couple of months, then brow beat someone I know who works in a cal lab to get a reference reading off it.

Only need something I can check a 4.5 digit DMM against. Not measure a nat's fart from space.

An LM399 is, as you say, obviously going to need calibrating as off the shelf it is only accurate to 5%, very stable, but very loose nominal voltage.

If you want reasonable off the shelf accuracy I've had good luck with AD586LNs - 5V nominal, DIP8, 0.05% initial accuracy = +/- 2.5mV, 5ppm/C, 15ppm/sqrt(1000 hours) drift, 4uVptp noise - all figures worst case. In practice the performance comfortably exceeds that, or at least has for the specimens that have been through my hands. There's a 10V version in the AD587 with similar specs, also 0.05% initial accuracy - no practical experience of that but it seems to be the same basic design (buried zener) with a different internal resistor string setting the gain.

[Mr. Scram]

I must say, I'm liking this decade box more and more. After cleaning it up it's much more presentable and accuracy is actually quite good. Not metrology grade, but well beyond what's needed for practical purposes.

Too bad one of the chicken head knobs lost its metal insert. That makes it look a bit dingy. I don't think I stand a chance of finding those, so I will have to replace all four knobs if I want to do anything about it.

[GreyWoolfe]

That blue display reminds of my VW Passat, that had lovely blue instrument lighting, uncommon on cars I think. 

Thank god VW dropped the blue instrument lights, I really hated this. Such blue light hurts my eyes. I'd never had bought that Golf if it had this blue light. Now they have white instrument lighting, but a quite cold white. I really liked the warm orange light my Renault had. I also dislike any kind of blue LED display or blue LED lighting - since to me it feels hurting my eyes.

Our Sonata has white instrument lights but the center stack is all blue LED.  During the day it's fine, interesting at night.  The only issue I have, if I have my clip on sunglasses on, I can't see the time on the clock during the day.  I do keep the dashboard lights fairly dim at night so the blue doesn't bother me.

[Mr. Scram]

Our Sonata has white instrument lights but the center stack is all blue LED.  During the day it's fine, interesting at night.  The only issue I have, if I have my clip on sunglasses on, I can't see the time on the clock during the day.  I do keep the dashboard lights fairly dim at night so the blue doesn't bother me.

Polarized glasses, I guess?

[mnementh]

I must say, I'm liking this decade box more and more. After cleaning it up it's much more presentable and accuracy is actually quite good. Not metrology grade, but well beyond what's needed for practical purposes.

Too bad one of the chicken head knobs lost its metal insert. That makes it look a bit dingy. I don't think I stand a chance of finding those, so I will have to replace all four knobs if I want to do anything about it.

Not something you can reasonably approximate with sharp scissors and a bit of aluminum flashing? Or perhaps a steady hand (yours or borrowed) and some silver paint?

IMO, repaired original knobs is quite acceptable; and always better than substituting the wrong knobs even if they match.

Our Sonata has white instrument lights but the center stack is all blue LED.  During the day it's fine, interesting at night.  The only issue I have, if I have my clip on sunglasses on, I can't see the time on the clock during the day.  I do keep the dashboard lights fairly dim at night so the blue doesn't bother me.

Polarized glasses, I guess?

That is how those LCDs work; by flipping the polarization of the light as it passes through another static polarized screen. When I was a kid I used to drive my teachers nuts by taking their calculators apart and rotating/flipping the polarizing film (once upon a time, they were made separate so the film acted as a "screen protector") so it inverted the display. 


mnem
I love/hate Android phones... So many features for the money, but the UI never feels "finished".

[Specmaster]

I must say, I'm liking this decade box more and more. After cleaning it up it's much more presentable and accuracy is actually quite good. Not metrology grade, but well beyond what's needed for practical purposes.

Too bad one of the chicken head knobs lost its metal insert. That makes it look a bit dingy. I don't think I stand a chance of finding those, so I will have to replace all four knobs if I want to do anything about it.

Not something you can reasonably approximate with sharp scissors and a bit of aluminum flashing? Or perhaps a steady hand (yours or borrowed) and some silver paint?

IMO, repaired original knobs is quite acceptable; and always better than substituting the wrong knobs even if they match.

Our Sonata has white instrument lights but the center stack is all blue LED.  During the day it's fine, interesting at night.  The only issue I have, if I have my clip on sunglasses on, I can't see the time on the clock during the day.  I do keep the dashboard lights fairly dim at night so the blue doesn't bother me.

Polarized glasses, I guess?

That is how those LCDs work; by flipping the polarization of the light as it passes through another static polarized screen. When I was a kid I used to drive my teachers nuts by taking their calculators apart and rotating/flipping the polarizing film (once upon a time, they were made separate so the film acted as a "screen protector") so it inverted the display. 


mnem
I love/hate Android phones... So many features for the money, but the UI never feels "finished".

So what does feel finished?

[bd139]

That will be iOS

(although you'll find I use google stuff all over it instead of the apple stuff)

[Specmaster]

That will be iOS

(although you'll find I use google stuff all over it instead of the apple stuff)

I'm not convinced, I have an iPad air2 and that dies not feel as finished as Android to me. What it really is, is what your used to using and that's the bottom line in truth.

[Specmaster]

That will be iOS

(although you'll find I use google stuff all over it instead of the apple stuff)

Android is by Google isn't it?

[bd139]

I'm not convinced, I have an iPad air2 and that dies not feel as finished as Android to me. What it really is, is what your used to using and that's the bottom line in truth.

Not really. I was an Android power user for many years. I have written Android apps and have been in charge of implementing device policy across 2000 odd handsets. Using it is like licking the bottom of a pond. All I'm going to say is, and any android user will know this hell: (a) why did the SD card suddenly unmount (b) where did my updates go for the handset I bought last week? (c) why has my handset suddenly started lagging - oh there's a botnet running on it. I won't even go into the architecture of Android which is quite frankly, idiotic in places.

I digress, those 2000 handsets are iOS now and there are no such problems and I can sleep again. Occasionally someone smashes one but that's about it. It's surprisingly uneventful!

It actually annoys the shit out of me though when you see smartphone integration of electronics, particularly test gear. That's just basically tying your product to a future brick.

[Mr. Scram]

Not something you can reasonably approximate with sharp scissors and a bit of aluminum flashing? Or perhaps a steady hand (yours or borrowed) and some silver paint?

IMO, repaired original knobs is quite acceptable; and always better than substituting the wrong knobs even if they match.


That is how those LCDs work; by flipping the polarization of the light as it passes through another static polarized screen. When I was a kid I used to drive my teachers nuts by taking their calculators apart and rotating/flipping the polarizing film (once upon a time, they were made separate so the film acted as a "screen protector") so it inverted the display. 


mnem
I love/hate Android phones... So many features for the money, but the UI never feels "finished".

I need a disk 20,6 mm in diameter and 0,6 mm thick. Even though I'm all for putting in a bit of elbow grease, I don't really see that ending up looking good. They're oddball dimensions too, but I'll have a gander and'll see whether eBay has anything to offer.

[Specmaster]

I'm not convinced, I have an iPad air2 and that dies not feel as finished as Android to me. What it really is, is what your used to using and that's the bottom line in truth.

Not really. I was an Android power user for many years. I have written Android apps and have been in charge of implementing device policy across 2000 odd handsets. Using it is like licking the bottom of a pond. All I'm going to say is, and any android user will know this hell: (a) why did the SD card suddenly unmount (b) where did my updates go for the handset I bought last week? (c) why has my handset suddenly started lagging - oh there's a botnet running on it. I won't even go into the architecture of Android which is quite frankly, idiotic in places.

I digress, those 2000 handsets are iOS now and there are no such problems and I can sleep again. Occasionally someone smashes one but that's about it. It's surprisingly uneventful!

It actually annoys the shit out of me though when you see smartphone integration of electronics, particularly test gear. That's just basically tying your product to a future brick.

I have only ever had Android phones apart a short spell with Windows. I have only ever had the card dismount once and no real problems with botnets running on them. On the other hand all my family have IOS and they have problems by the bucket load. Phones and ipads eventually become bricks as the updates brick the older models.

[mnementh]

(SNIP)
mnem
I love/hate Android phones... So many features for the money, but the UI never feels "finished".

So what does feel finished?

Pretty much ANYTHING BUT Android feels more finished; more "of a piece". Google took *NIX, trimmed it down to run on crackerjack processors, then added a usable GUI Shell. This was an absolutely fabulous idea, except then... they gave it away free, and with ZERO accountability or QC, to the worst bunch of Pirates on the planet; Wireless Telecom Providers.

What COULD HAVE BEEN the greatest OS in history instantly became a hellzone of crapware, useless bodges of old and new versions, and if there was a dime to be made from it, basic features castrated by every member of whatever "Committee" had a hand in laying out their particular customization of whatever revision of Android they decided to put on your device.

Yes, if you pony up the bucks CASH for a PURE Android device FROM GOOGLE, you CAN have a user experience that is MOSTLY as good as iOS... at a similar price. But you know what the big difference to me is?

Can you pick up the device and just USE IT out of the box?

EVERY iOS device I've ever had, that is an absolute YES. After a 90 second Setup Wizard, you have 90% of your basic services signed into and WORKING.

This, BTW, was ALSO true of every Windows Phone handset I've had; including my last, a Lumia 521 I bought JUST because it was crazy cheap. THAT phone JUST PLAIN WORKED.

EVERY Android device I've owned has ALWAYS HAD SOME DAMNED BASIC THING WRONG with it; some fundamental feature (in many cases, multiple features) that JUST DIDN'T WORK unless I got into the nuts & bolts of the OS and FIXED IT. And where you have to go to find what you need to fix it is NEVER the same from one version to the next; settings are ALWAYS in a state of flux, and usually in a dozen different places at the same time. Hell, Android doesn't even follow IT'S OWN RULES half the time on where things should be.

So yes, Android SUCKS. It sucks time, it sucks patience, it will suck your soul if you let it.

iOS is the same, only it sucks MONEY.

And Windows Phone... well, my replacement for the Lumia 521 was not near the value it was... in fact, as great a value as it was, the 535 was as much of a turd. Of course, now Windows mobile is pretty much dead... so no hope for it to be a competitor driving the others forwards towards a more civilised UI.

So yeah...  I tolerate Android because I'm not willing to put up a $600 down payment to FINANCE a FSCKing phone with iOS that has a civilized size screen. That doesn't mean I LIKE it, for the same reason I don't like going to the dentist.


mnem
At least after you go to the dentist, the pain is gone. And usually, you have some nice happy pills to go along with the aflterglow. :p

[Specmaster]

(SNIP)
mnem
I love/hate Android phones... So many features for the money, but the UI never feels "finished".

So what does feel finished?

Pretty much ANYTHING BUT Android feels more finished; more "of a piece". Google took *NIX, trimmed it down to run on crackerjack processors, then added a usable GUI Shell. This was an absolutely fabulous idea, except then... they gave it away free, and with ZERO accountability or QC, to the worst bunch of Pirates on the planet; Wireless Telecom Providers.

What COULD HAVE BEEN the greatest OS in history instantly became a hellzone of crapware, useless bodges of old and new versions, and if there was a dime to be made from it, basic features castrated by every member of whatever "Committee" had a hand in laying out their particular customization of whatever revision of Android they decided to put on your device.

Yes, if you pony up the bucks CASH for a PURE Android device FROM GOOGLE, you CAN have a user experience that is MOSTLY as good as iOS... at a similar price. But you know what the big difference to me is?

Can you pick up the device and just USE IT out of the box?

EVERY iOS device I've ever had, that is an absolute YES. After a 90 second Setup Wizard, you have 90% of your basic services signed into and WORKING.

This, BTW, was ALSO true of every Windows Phone handset I've had; including my last, a Lumia 521 I bought JUST because it was crazy cheap. THAT phone JUST PLAIN WORKED.

EVERY Android device I've owned has ALWAYS HAD SOME DAMNED BASIC THING WRONG with it; some fundamental feature (in many cases, multiple features) that JUST DIDN'T WORK unless I got into the nuts & bolts of the OS and FIXED IT. And where you have to go to find what you need to fix it is NEVER the same from one version to the next; settings are ALWAYS in a state of flux, and usually in a dozen different places at the same time. Hell, Android doesn't even follow IT'S OWN RULES half the time on where things should be.

So yes, Android SUCKS. It sucks time, it sucks patience, it will suck your soul if you let it.

iOS is the same, only it sucks MONEY.

And Windows Phone... well, my replacement for the Lumia 521 was not near the value it was... in fact, as great a value as it was, the 535 was as much of a turd. Of course, now Windows mobile is pretty much dead... so no hope for it to be a competitor driving the others forwards towards a more civilised UI.

So yeah...  I tolerate Android because I'm not willing to put up a $600 down payment to FINANCE a FSCKing phone with iOS that has a civilized size screen. That doesn't mean I LIKE it, for the same reason I don't like going to the dentist.


mnem
At least after you go to the dentist, the pain is gone. And usually, you have some nice happy pills to go along with the aflterglow. [emoji14]

Well my phones and tablets have all been easy to set up and have never been any bother.

[Cubdriver]

Our Sonata has white instrument lights but the center stack is all blue LED.  During the day it's fine, interesting at night.  The only issue I have, if I have my clip on sunglasses on, I can't see the time on the clock during the day.  I do keep the dashboard lights fairly dim at night so the blue doesn't bother me.

Try tilting your head a bit when you look at the clock.  Polarized sunglasses can do funny things with LCDs.  I was taking pictures outside with a small point and shoot camera a few years ago - the type that has only an LCD screen on the back and no optical viewfinder.  It was tough to see to begin with because it was washed out by the bright sunlight, then when I rotated it to take a portrait oriented picture, I suddenly couldn't see anything as it went black.  It took me a few moments of puzzlement before the little light in my head went on and I thought 'duh - polarized glasses.'     That added another reason not to like that kind of viewfinder.

-Pat

[bd139]

Quick diversion back to phones. Windows Phone up to and including 8.1 was the best compromise I had used. Handset for under £100 and it just worked. Then they went and fucked it right up with 10.  I had a Lumia 710, 630, 730 and 650.

Talking of annoying things; I still can’t get OSX to talk to my TF930. 

[mnementh]

Quick diversion back to phones. Windows Phone up to and including 8.1 was the best compromise I had used. Handset for under £100 and it just worked. Then they went and fucked it right up with 10.  I had a Lumia 710, 630, 730 and 650.

Talking of annoying things; I still can’t get OSX to talk to my TF930. 

1000x THIS. That's mostly, I think, because the UI was laid out by Nokia engineers; they were masters of making a powerful, intuitive UI and making a phone that was a phone FIRST, not a little tablet PC with a phone added on as an afterthought. ALL OSes currently in use (on whatever platform) could learn a LOT from them.


mnem
OS/2 Warp for teh WIN!