Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Cerebus]

What is a 'PAIN HAMBURGER'? At which point does it become painful? Also, it's sort of cruel - you need food urgently (if not, you wouldn't resort to opening MREs) and they throw a dare at you.

I hope you're joking, if not we're just found a German who's worse at foreign languages than the Brits and the Yanks.

In case it's not obvious, that's French.

[beanflying]

I think the spelling is Pane as in Pane Di Casa 

Confession time Toy purchase for the week was not TEA related 

[neo]

I'm going to do the unthinkable and compare two tektronix oscilloscopes.

7704A, with the right plug-ins is a full 4 channel 200Mhz scope without volatile cal data and overly complicated engineering.
2465B, The interface is quicker to navigate though it only has 2 full channels with 3 and 4 being limited. Besides that it NEEDS it's fan otherwise it WILL go  as if that wasn't enough it's entire calibration is stored in volatile memory. Then there are the small details such as the lack of sockets on the aforementioned volatile memory.....

Then again it isn't technically volatile but to me if it needs a battery to store data it's volatile.

Conclusion;
They both represent the best of tektronix, though the 2465B also represents why tektronix didn't do great when it came to the digital era. It seems to me that the main competing factor between tektronix 24xx and the mainframe is that it's smaller.

I may be speaking outta my ass but this is what i've observed thus far.

[Neomys Sapiens]

What is a 'PAIN HAMBURGER'? At which point does it become painful? Also, it's sort of cruel - you need food urgently (if not, you wouldn't resort to opening MREs) and they throw a dare at you.

I hope you're joking, if not we're just found a German who's worse at foreign languages than the Brits and the Yanks.

In case it's not obvious, that's French.

No sir, I would never dare to make fun of our neighbours or their much revered language!
.......
Yoni soit qui mal y pense!

[neo]

I could use some help, having a hard time wrapping my head around this. This document (http://www.worldphaco.com/uploads/TEKTRONIX_2465b_OSCILLOSCOPE_CALIBRATION___REPOWERING_THE_DS1225.pdf) says i can use a FM16W08, can i?

Besides that, will the programmer i linked earlier work for the task?

I think i may be trapped in the 70's, send help! 

[xrunner]

We need to recruit

This guy

[mnementh]

I'm going to do the unthinkable and compare two tektronix oscilloscopes.

7704A, with the right plug-ins is a full 4 channel 200Mhz scope without volatile cal data and overly complicated engineering.
2465B, The interface is quicker to navigate though it only has 2 full channels with 3 and 4 being limited. Besides that it NEEDS it's fan otherwise it WILL go  as if that wasn't enough it's entire calibration is stored in volatile memory. Then there are the small details such as the lack of sockets on the aforementioned volatile memory.....

Then again it isn't technically volatile but to me if it needs a battery to store data it's volatile.

Conclusion;
They both represent the best of tektronix, though the 2465B also represents why tektronix didn't do great when it came to the digital era. It seems to me that the main competing factor between tektronix 24xx and the mainframe is that it's smaller.

I may be speaking outta my ass but this is what i've observed thus far.

The reason they're so highly regarded is not only the art and craftsmanship, but also the depth to which they are documented for service, which is very nearly to the molecular level.

While battery-operated NVRAM sounds like a horrible idea, remember their design life was ~10 years, yet there are 30 year-old units STILL WORKING.

I believe I read in one of the threads I linked to that there was a problem with how the NVRAM was addressed that made most substitutes that had been tried unsuitable; IIRC, one pin that was usually pulled high every time a memory location was read, as opposed to the DS1225 which only pulled that pin high once for the entire read cycle.

And yes, finally... their great value (aside from being a 1GHz-capable portable scope way back when) was the fact of having all that power, and some really powerful  setup capabilities in a single unitized device as opposed to having to have a flupping rack on wheels and procure/maintain/swap out plug-ins.

I have no idea on reading/programming the NVRAM; see above, and remember that I don't have a B. I only have a few lowly 2465s.

There is a fellow on eBay who's developed quite a reputation for knowing his stuff on Tek 'scopes, and for having the hard-to-find bits; his nick is 2465b and I believe he's on eevblog under another nick.


Cheers,


mnem
*Toddling off to ded*

[neo]

The reason they're so highly regarded is not only the art and craftsmanship, but also the depth to which they are documented for service, which is very nearly to the molecular level.

While battery-operated NVRAM sounds like a horrible idea, remember their design life was ~10 years, yet there are 30 year-old units STILL WORKING.

I believe I read in one of the threads I linked to that there was a problem with how the NVRAM was addressed that made most substitutes that had been tried unsuitable; IIRC, one pin that was usually pulled high every time a memory location was read, as opposed to the DS1225 which only pulled that pin high once for the entire read cycle.

And yes, finally... their great value (aside from being a 1GHz-capable portable scope way back when) was the fact of having all that power, and some really powerful  setup capabilities in a single unitized device as opposed to having to have a flupping rack on wheels and procure/maintain/swap out plug-ins.

I have no idea on reading/programming the NVRAM; see above, and remember that I don't have a B. I only have a few lowly 2465s.

There is a fellow on eBay who's developed quite a reputation for knowing his stuff on Tek 'scopes, and for having the hard-to-find bits; his nick is 2465b and I believe he's on eevblog under another nick.


Cheers,


mnem
*Toddling off to ded*

Yes but the document i read said that it would work, or at least posed it as a contender?

Screw it, i'm buying the 10 dollar longer lasting one and if it don't work i'll order the expensive AF one.

I still like my mainframe better, i will grant that the 2465B is great in it's own right and this isn't a monarchy. We can have two kings!

[BravoV]

A noob in action and with the 1st SA in the house. 

Its sux as I have to wait bunch of N connectors/adapters/attenuators/DC block to arrived, as all my RF plumbing stuffs are mostly BNCs and few SMAs. 

[bd139]

I'm going to do the unthinkable and compare two tektronix oscilloscopes.

7704A, with the right plug-ins is a full 4 channel 200Mhz scope without volatile cal data and overly complicated engineering.
2465B, The interface is quicker to navigate though it only has 2 full channels with 3 and 4 being limited. Besides that it NEEDS it's fan otherwise it WILL go  as if that wasn't enough it's entire calibration is stored in volatile memory. Then there are the small details such as the lack of sockets on the aforementioned volatile memory.....

Then again it isn't technically volatile but to me if it needs a battery to store data it's volatile.

Conclusion;
They both represent the best of tektronix, though the 2465B also represents why tektronix didn't do great when it came to the digital era. It seems to me that the main competing factor between tektronix 24xx and the mainframe is that it's smaller.

I may be speaking outta my ass but this is what i've observed thus far.

Back in 1999, the company I was working for had HP digital scopes on the bench. These had replaced the 24xx scopes from Tek which had been put in storage and no one complained. However there were a metric ton of 7000 series scopes on scope mobiles which were actually doing all the real work. Only when those had died or been scrapped people started using the 2465’s!  The 2465 was a nice scope but didn’t seem to have that much of a following until all the older analogue scopes had blown up. I suspect that is why the MoD is only just scrapping most of their stock. They’ve probably migrated to HP branded scopes finally.

The funny thing about all this is that at the same time Tek dropped the 2465, Philips kicked out their first line of DSOs and they were pretty scary bits of kit in comparison and the engineering was orders of magnitude better than tek. They pushed the envelope pretty hard with those scopes.

[neo]

I'm going to do the unthinkable and compare two tektronix oscilloscopes.

7704A, with the right plug-ins is a full 4 channel 200Mhz scope without volatile cal data and overly complicated engineering.
2465B, The interface is quicker to navigate though it only has 2 full channels with 3 and 4 being limited. Besides that it NEEDS it's fan otherwise it WILL go  as if that wasn't enough it's entire calibration is stored in volatile memory. Then there are the small details such as the lack of sockets on the aforementioned volatile memory.....

Then again it isn't technically volatile but to me if it needs a battery to store data it's volatile.

Conclusion;
They both represent the best of tektronix, though the 2465B also represents why tektronix didn't do great when it came to the digital era. It seems to me that the main competing factor between tektronix 24xx and the mainframe is that it's smaller.

I may be speaking outta my ass but this is what i've observed thus far.

Back in 1999, the company I was working for had HP digital scopes on the bench. These had replaced the 24xx scopes from Tek which had been put in storage and no one complained. However there were a metric ton of 7000 series scopes on scope mobiles which were actually doing all the real work. Only when those had died or been scrapped people started using the 2465’s!  The 2465 was a nice scope but didn’t seem to have that much of a following until all the older analogue scopes had blown up. I suspect that is why the MoD is only just scrapping most of their stock. They’ve probably migrated to HP branded scopes finally.

The funny thing about all this is that at the same time Tek dropped the 2465, Philips kicked out their first line of DSOs and they were pretty scary bits of kit in comparison and the engineering was orders of magnitude better than tek. They pushed the envelope pretty hard with those scopes.

So i'm not the only die hard for the mainframes then 

 

[tautech]

The funny thing about all this is that at the same time Tek dropped the 2465, Philips kicked out their first line of DSOs and they were pretty scary bits of kit in comparison and the engineering was orders of magnitude better than tek. They pushed the envelope pretty hard with those scopes.

What model Philips would they have been ?

[bd139]

The funny thing about all this is that at the same time Tek dropped the 2465, Philips kicked out their first line of DSOs and they were pretty scary bits of kit in comparison and the engineering was orders of magnitude better than tek. They pushed the envelope pretty hard with those scopes.

What model Philips would they have been ?

PM3315 which was second version. The first was the PM3310 which was late 1982 (!). Scary not because of the specification which was only 60MHz at 125MS/s, but more the question of utility. It was the only slow speed capture and DSO available without spending stupid money. Also the architecture answered "how do I get the state of the art CPU at the time, an 8085, to handle 125MS/s of 8-bit data" which was a massive achievement. They had to use specially designed ADC and CCD buffers for each frame and then dump that into RAM after each capture. Triggers were event based so you could actually scroll forward and back in time as far as some of the later circa 1990 DSOs, up to 1000 divs after triggering off a pattern trigger. Even had plotter and data outputs for captured data.



Engineering is way ahead of everyone at that point in time. military spec construction. The unit was a cardframe with a control panel at one and and a switching power supply at the other end with a CRT down the side. The bottom was the analogue board. Everything was accessible, well documented and the thing was built like a Tek 453.

Tek didn't introduce a DSO until late 1986 with the 2430. HP again not until late 1980s.

I owned one. Paid £5 for it because it didn't work. One of the Philips caps on the analogue board had gone short and caused the power supply to tick out.

More pictures here: http://bbs.jd128.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=43096

[tautech]

Thanks.
I have a PM3070 I was given by a mate  'cause it rattles when you shake it.
Haven't had the time to investigate it, maybe this winter when it's too wet to do anything outside.

What gems can you share about these ?

[bd139]

PM3070 is nice. Basically a 100MHz PM3055 with cursors and readout. CRT is good in them as well. Nice and crisp.

Before you even fire it up, note that all Philips oscilloscopes will likely violently blow up without preventative maintenance being done. This happens more often than not.

There will probably be some RIFA X2's on the hot side of the power supply. Some of the later ones had non RIFA ones. If they are RIFA, remove them as they will explode. Also might have a mains filter in it bolted to the chassis (some do, some don't). Remove that - just bypass it. They hiss when they are sick and spew sealing wax everywhere. Not a terribly large issue but it's alarming when it does happen and will annoy SWMBO (it did when one went off in the living room ). Apart from that probably ok. If the power supply doesn't come up, check for shorted rails with a DMM on ohms and look at all the Philips blue axial electrolytics in it with an ohmmeter until you find the shorted one. Snip it out and if it starts, buy another one to replace it. The scope will likely work without one in circuit but will be a bit noisier.

The controls on those are mostly digital so you don't get the manked up switches like the earlier ones. Only real problem is when the LCD display packs in. That's end game.

If it's rattling, it's probably plastic fallen out or cracked somewhere. Philips used crap plastics. Crack it open and shake the bits out

[tautech]

PM3070 is nice. Basically a 100MHz PM3055 with cursors and readout. CRT is good in them as well. Nice and crisp.

Before you even fire it up, note that all Philips oscilloscopes will likely violently blow up without preventative maintenance being done. This happens more often than not.

There will probably be some RIFA X2's on the hot side of the power supply. Some of the later ones had non RIFA ones. If they are RIFA, remove them as they will explode. Also might have a mains filter in it bolted to the chassis (some do, some don't). Remove that - just bypass it. They hiss when they are sick and spew sealing wax everywhere. Not a terribly large issue but it's alarming when it does happen and will annoy SWMBO (it did when one went off in the living room ). Apart from that probably ok. If the power supply doesn't come up, check for shorted rails with a DMM on ohms and look at all the Philips blue axial electrolytics in it with an ohmmeter until you find the shorted one. Snip it out and if it starts, buy another one to replace it. The scope will likely work without one in circuit but will be a bit noisier.

The controls on those are mostly digital so you don't get the manked up switches like the earlier ones. Only real problem is when the LCD display packs in. That's end game.

If it's rattling, it's probably plastic fallen out or cracked somewhere. Philips used crap plastics. Crack it open and shake the bits out

Thanks again. 
Yeah I know all about RIFA's. 
So just check all just the basics. 
Sounds too easy.

Oh yeah dim bulb tester power up as always.

[Specmaster]

PM3070 is nice. Basically a 100MHz PM3055 with cursors and readout. CRT is good in them as well. Nice and crisp.

Before you even fire it up, note that all Philips oscilloscopes will likely violently blow up without preventative maintenance being done. This happens more often than not.

There will probably be some RIFA X2's on the hot side of the power supply. Some of the later ones had non RIFA ones. If they are RIFA, remove them as they will explode. Also might have a mains filter in it bolted to the chassis (some do, some don't). Remove that - just bypass it. They hiss when they are sick and spew sealing wax everywhere. Not a terribly large issue but it's alarming when it does happen and will annoy SWMBO (it did when one went off in the living room ). Apart from that probably ok. If the power supply doesn't come up, check for shorted rails with a DMM on ohms and look at all the Philips blue axial electrolytics in it with an ohmmeter until you find the shorted one. Snip it out and if it starts, buy another one to replace it. The scope will likely work without one in circuit but will be a bit noisier.

The controls on those are mostly digital so you don't get the manked up switches like the earlier ones. Only real problem is when the LCD display packs in. That's end game.

If it's rattling, it's probably plastic fallen out or cracked somewhere. Philips used crap plastics. Crack it open and shake the bits out

There was a spate of those on Ebay a while ago, almost went for one but decided against it. Now I wish I had it as the controls all lit up and I believe the LCD did as well, but it sounds like a good scope.

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again [emoji83]

[bd139]

They're really good scopes to be honest.

Also don't start up a Philips switching power supply with a lamp limiter. It will explode as well. The front end diodes are always under-rated so the switcher will try and draw more current causing them or the NTCs to pop. Best bet is fix all the problems, plug it in and stick your fingers in your ears

They have pretty good protection and shutdown really but the input circuit is made of old stock parts.

[Specmaster]

They're really good scopes to be honest.

Also don't start up a Philips switching power supply with a lamp limiter. It will explode as well. The front end diodes are always under-rated so the switcher will try and draw more current causing them or the NTCs to pop. Best bet is fix all the problems, plug it in and stick your fingers in your ears

They have pretty good protection and shutdown really but the input circuit is made of old stock parts.

So no dim bulb, or variac then, just work through the unit looking at the caps for ones are showing signs of distress. Use  DMM checking for shorted caps and if course those dreaded rifa filter caps. Once done plug in and hope for the best.

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again [emoji83]

[bd139]

Yep that's about it.

The big Philips radial filter elcos tend to bulge or blow pinholes in the side near the base if anything goes wrong. The others go short. The end game is that the power supply won't start rather than something explodes. If the RIFAs go though, damage can be really bad.

[Specmaster]

The other thing that always concerned me about them was that huge LCD display, if it suffers from bleed etc, as there's not a hope in hell of replacing it other from a parts mule. 

[GreyWoolfe]

A noob in action and with the 1st SA in the house. 

Its sux as I have to wait bunch of N connectors/adapters/attenuators/DC block to arrived, as all my RF plumbing stuffs are mostly BNCs and few SMAs. 

Where can I get some of that WiFi enabled solder?

[Specmaster]

A noob in action and with the 1st SA in the house. 

Its sux as I have to wait bunch of N connectors/adapters/attenuators/DC block to arrived, as all my RF plumbing stuffs are mostly BNCs and few SMAs. 

Where can I get some of that WiFi enabled solder?

Same place as you get WiFi flux from. 

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again [emoji83]

[BravoV]

A noob in action and with the 1st SA in the house. 

Its sux as I have to wait bunch of N connectors/adapters/attenuators/DC block to arrived, as all my RF plumbing stuffs are mostly BNCs and few SMAs. 

Where can I get some of that WiFi enabled solder?

Geez ... I didn't even realize it looks really convincing as a WiFi soldering iron before you mentioned it, looks impressive isn't it ? LOL 

Actually that antenna is from TI MSP-SA430 sub 1 GHz spectrum analyzer kit, as currently I don't any near field probe yet, still planning to make few of them DIY style.

[Ero-Shan]

These Anritsu Sig Gens apparently have an OCXO that requires some time to warm up from a quite large frequency offset, Having warmed up all the stuff, their reference frequency is quite accurate (matching up to 8 digits with the CMU200 ref out, DC503A in A/B ratio mode with one digit overflowing).
BTW that TM504 rack made me wonder ... Did you by chance photograph mine? I've got a similar looking one (FG504, FG50_can't remember the last digit, DC503 (with these nice pixie LEDs), DC503A (one more digit), both w/o OCXO, alas.

  I noticed your TM500 rack in one of the photographs of your Anritsu repair thread, but I've never even been close to your place. This is really mine. Those Dot Matrix seven segment displays are still missing in my collection (I have 2 of them looted from an old Nixdorf workstation in my display drawer, but not in any equipment).

It's amazing (for me, anyway), how that old DC505A is still on the spot.