Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mansaxel]

I do as it happens, have an i7 laptop, but its built like a tank and is designed for hard work, problem is though, I once thought like you, sofa, chilling etc, but the truth of the matter is the noise of typing annoyed SWMBO when she was watching the blasted soaps ( ) and of course, the battery life is not great. They get hot very quickly on your laptop as your clothing restricts the cooling air flow and if you plug them into the mains while using them, the cable becomes yet another hazard with the potential of doing massive damage to them if some gets the feet caught up with the cable. Consequently, my 2 laptops, are sitting beneath my bench with batteries that need charging up because they go flat all the time because they are not used 

Laptops are perfectly fine for business people who might need to use one in a customers premises to do a presentation etc but otherwise IMO they are a waste of money.

I use almost exclusively laptops, and I have one private (2015 vintage 13" MBP, last generation with working keyboard and MagSafe mains) and one work issued (15" MBP, useless but fast keyboard, USB-C only, 2018 vintage). I have  desktop computers, one at work, one at home, but when I log in to them, it's via SSH from my laptop.  At work I have an external screen and a mouse (and the forest of adapters, daisy chained, required, because it's deemed unsightly with ports on a portable computer.) but at home I work (and play) from the kitchen sofa. And I've been there for going on 2 months now, so it apparently works.

As to the performance per currency unit, yes, of course, it's hard to argue with what a desktop can be built for these days. But that computer is not where I want to compute, so I need something to get to it.

[0culus]

Easy question: what is the wavy semi-horizontal line by the red part, and why is that liquid illegal under international Protocols?

I received this in the post today, courtesy of Equipnet (may they rot in hell) and ice-tea

All this is to create a saturated FREON atmosphere that allows the probe to go to full 40kV instead of ca. 12kV when filled with air.
FREON is also a much better conductor of heat and this is needed to cool the divider resistor at very high voltages.
Problem: FREON is *banned* under ROHS laws, IMHO. You can still get it officially, but only 1) you're authorized 2) you fill in a ton of paperwork 3) pay a boutique prize 4) proove that it will not evade to the environment.
Plan B: Try to find an old refrigerator. Some of the old gas fills could be usable.

A word of caution: don't get any stupid ideas and try a modern refrigerant. Freon has a lower vapor pressure than most modern equivalents...you could be creating a handheld bomb by filling one of these probes with a modern refrigerant the probe body was not designed for. 

[Saskia]

@ Neomys Sapiens
Nope, a mere Jaaaaaag, 2006 XKR ...

[beanflying]

@ Neomys Sapiens
Nope, a mere Jaaaaaag, 2006 XKR ...

You might be lucky then it is probably post spontaneous firestarter UK Auto wiring 

[tautech]

Perfect mnem, just the sort of stuff I wanted needed to know. Much appreciated. 

Fairly sure in the never throw out pile I have some old LPG BBQ regs with perished hoses and just maybe, some that aren't sealed so to bodge the diaphragm spring to 2 PSI.
I tried tweaking one for a 3 ring burner and could never get enough gas flow/pressure to get the thing fair roaring to get my big spud pot hot enough however I do have a 15 PSI LPG regulator .....a dumb thing at that with zero in the way of gauges and preset pressure.   Maybe I should just cut and run with that, whaddya reckon ?
Anyways, with yours and Pats tips and bit more Gurgling and some trial and error should get me sorted.

If you can add a 3PSI gauge and get the pressure down, might be worth a try. Otherwise, for safety's sake, I'll recommend you live with the low pressure/flow of a BBQ reg and limit yourself to thinner metal rather than trying to run without knowing what your pressure really is.

Even at my age I can still piss faster than a jimmyed LPG gauge as proven today.  (no pictures  )

So armed with that FAIL, time to check this Acetylene regulator is greater detail.
Yes the mongrel was creeping big time and despite all the online cries of 'send it away to someone that knows what they doing' and 'the liability risk is not worth it' and 'don't put yourself in danger' , it was obvious that further investigation was required. 

Well, what a mess inside after what can only be interpreted as at least one flashback and the coating of soot left behind as evidence. A puking mess ! Ralph !
A full strip of all working parts found the hard nylon seat badly imprinted from the high pressure conical nipple yet all other parts seemed in good....well, seemingly serviceable order. 
The nylon seat OTOH was shagged as it had also run misaligned so there were 2 witness marks representing a compact figure 8. 
Luckily the nylon seat was proud of its threaded brass holder so adjustments for length were possible if faced to a new clean seat....so it was ! Well it was shagged anyways so nutthing to lose.
Without a setup guide, seat adjustments for play and presumably regulator hysteresis unknown, play was set to ~25 thou just so I knew there was some like before it was dismantled......a wee mistake that might yet get corrected.

Tests indicated some pressure creep was still apparent however it stopped rock solid at 10 PSI. Further tests with a good flow out of the torch and regulator set to 3 PSI showed seemingly perfect pressure stability that rose to 10 PSI repeatedly when the draw off flow was stopped.
After some chin and head scratching it seems the seat clearance is set too wide therefore upsetting regulation hysteresis that should be much tighter.

While it was connected and a ciggy lighter available the obligatory proof pic was snapped:

Don't look like much however the flame is ~10-12" long.


For Pat, I looked up specs on the new Oxy Acetylene hoses used and there is only a recommendation to use the Orange LPG rated hosing, so for now this will do.

Thanks mnem and Pat for your words of experience. 

[Specmaster]

@ Neomys Sapiens
Nope, a mere Jaaaaaag, 2006 XKR ...

Arh, a real classy motor then 

[Specmaster]

I do as it happens, have an i7 laptop, but its built like a tank and is designed for hard work, problem is though, I once thought like you, sofa, chilling etc, but the truth of the matter is the noise of typing annoyed SWMBO when she was watching the blasted soaps ( ) and of course, the battery life is not great. They get hot very quickly on your laptop as your clothing restricts the cooling air flow and if you plug them into the mains while using them, the cable becomes yet another hazard with the potential of doing massive damage to them if some gets the feet caught up with the cable. Consequently, my 2 laptops, are sitting beneath my bench with batteries that need charging up because they go flat all the time because they are not used 

Laptops are perfectly fine for business people who might need to use one in a customers premises to do a presentation etc but otherwise IMO they are a waste of money.

I use almost exclusively laptops, and I have one private (2015 vintage 13" MBP, last generation with working keyboard and MagSafe mains) and one work issued (15" MBP, useless but fast keyboard, USB-C only, 2018 vintage). I have  desktop computers, one at work, one at home, but when I log in to them, it's via SSH from my laptop.  At work I have an external screen and a mouse (and the forest of adapters, daisy chained, required, because it's deemed unsightly with ports on a portable computer.) but at home I work (and play) from the kitchen sofa. And I've been there for going on 2 months now, so it apparently works.

As to the performance per currency unit, yes, of course, it's hard to argue with what a desktop can be built for these days. But that computer is not where I want to compute, so I need something to get to it.

When I was working, I had a docking station for my company laptop so when at home I could dock it and then use my 2 x 22" monitors, mouse and keyboard and a software program called Synergy to enable seamless switching between desk tower and laptop simply by designating 1 edge of a monitor as the automatic switch over. It worked so well that when I retired I purchased another docking station but in reality it has only been used a about a dozen times because even though its an i7, being a mobile version it sucks.

[Specmaster]

Heads up. Good stuff on eBay UK only https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124174495081

See sellers other items as well.

Yep, some good stuff but at already high prices. I see that they have this Marconi bench supply unit as well starting at £45 which is the same unit apart from the ratings as this unit from Weir, so who is badging from whom here 

[BU508A]

I don't get it.

There is a nice HP 3456A offered by this zhoefler seller which I've mentioned here occasionly (no affiliations).
But why do people go crazy about this meter? Current bid is 560 Euro!   

For this money one can get without any problems a 34401A in very good condition.   

Link to the auction:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/133396449233

[Specmaster]

I don't get it.

There is a nice HP 3456A offered by this zhoefler seller which I've mentioned here occasionly (no affiliations).
But why do people go crazy about this meter? Current bid is 560 Euro!   

For this money one can get without any problems a 34401A in very good condition.   

Link to the auction:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/133396449233

Totally agree with you, the 34401A is IMO a far superior meter in a smaller package and thus ideal for a home lab unless you have 19" racks with spare capacity to fill.

[capt bullshot]

I don't get it.

There is a nice HP 3456A offered by this zhoefler seller which I've mentioned here occasionly (no affiliations).
But why do people go crazy about this meter? Current bid is 560 Euro!   

Same here, occasionally I'm looking for a S-6 at a reasonable price, so some time ago two of them went away for not so reasonable prices:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/TEKTRONIX-7s11-SAMPLING-UNIT/164144778597  - 7S11 with S-6 for 269 EUR
https://www.ebay.de/itm/TEKTRONIX-7S12-TDR-SAMPLER-w-S6-HEAD-S52-HEAD/164144785959  - 7S12 with S-6 for 430 EUR

And a reasonable price for an HP34401A would be in the 400 EUR ballpark (or less if you're lucky), so I don't understand that 3456A either.

[bd139]

Heads up. Good stuff on eBay UK only https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124174495081

See sellers other items as well.

Yep, some good stuff but at already high prices. I see that they have this Marconi bench supply unit as well starting at £45 which is the same unit apart from the ratings as this unit from Weir, so who is badging from whom here 

Macroni rebadging Weir there. They rebadged a lot of stuff from other companies.

[BU508A]

I don't get it.

There is a nice HP 3456A offered by this zhoefler seller which I've mentioned here occasionly (no affiliations).
But why do people go crazy about this meter? Current bid is 560 Euro!   

For this money one can get without any problems a 34401A in very good condition.   

Link to the auction:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/133396449233

Gone for 586,83 Euro. 

[Wolfgang]

Easy question: what is the wavy semi-horizontal line by the red part, and why is that liquid illegal under international Protocols?

I received this in the post today, courtesy of Equipnet (may they rot in hell) and ice-tea

All this is to create a saturated FREON atmosphere that allows the probe to go to full 40kV instead of ca. 12kV when filled with air.
FREON is also a much better conductor of heat and this is needed to cool the divider resistor at very high voltages.
Problem: FREON is *banned* under ROHS laws, IMHO. You can still get it officially, but only 1) you're authorized 2) you fill in a ton of paperwork 3) pay a boutique prize 4) proove that it will not evade to the environment.
Plan B: Try to find an old refrigerator. Some of the old gas fills could be usable.

A word of caution: don't get any stupid ideas and try a modern refrigerant. Freon has a lower vapor pressure than most modern equivalents...you could be creating a handheld bomb by filling one of these probes with a modern refrigerant the probe body was not designed for. 

Very true. Thats why I wrote *old* refrigerator. 

[URI]

I don't get it.

There is a nice HP 3456A offered by this zhoefler seller which I've mentioned here occasionly (no affiliations).
But why do people go crazy about this meter? Current bid is 560 Euro!   

For this money one can get without any problems a 34401A in very good condition.   

Link to the auction:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/133396449233

Hey, it's the youngest incarnation with rubber keys! Glad I got my two for little money when no one was interested in them.   

Holy Sh*t!  Ended with a bid of EUR 586,83!   
Weird. Corona related? Someone with too much time and too much money?       




Edit: BU508A we were obviously typing in parallel with you winninig the race.   

[wolfy007]

I don't get it.

There is a nice HP 3456A offered by this zhoefler seller which I've mentioned here occasionly (no affiliations).
But why do people go crazy about this meter? Current bid is 560 Euro!   

For this money one can get without any problems a 34401A in very good condition.   

Link to the auction:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/133396449233

Hey, it's the youngest incarnation with rubber keys! Glad I got my two for little money when no one was interested in them.   

Holy Sh*t!  Ended with a bid of EUR 586,83!   
Weird. Corona related? Someone with too much time and too much money?       




Edit: BU508A we were obviously typing in parallel with you winninig the race.   

EUR 586.... what the hell.....   why...., we are talking bout a 3456A right, maybe they lost their glasses and read 3458A and thought bargain??

[beanflying]

.....

EUR 586.... what the hell.....   why...., we are talking bout a 3456A right, maybe they lost their glasses and read 3458A and thought bargain??

And now you have darkened the TEA Door you can never leave  I reckon anyone in Europe could buy two of them and freight them from the USA 

[xrunner]

EUR 586.... what the hell.....   why...., we are talking bout a 3456A right, maybe they lost their glasses and read 3458A and thought bargain??

And now you have darkened the TEA Door you can never leave  I reckon anyone in Europe could buy two of them and freight them from the USA 

It is done wolfy007 -

"Last thing I remember
I was running for the door
I had to find the passage back
To the place I was before
"Relax", said the night man
"We are programmed to receive
You can check out any time you like
But you can never leave"


Lyrics: Hotel California

[wolfy007]

.....

EUR 586.... what the hell.....   why...., we are talking bout a 3456A right, maybe they lost their glasses and read 3458A and thought bargain??

And now you have darkened the TEA Door you can never leave  I reckon anyone in Europe could buy two of them and freight them from the USA 

Is that anything like Hotel TestEquipment (sung to Hotel California)   

Look at my signature, there is no coming back....   

PS: Ahhhhh xrunner beat me to it.

[AVGresponding]

The scammers popping up like fecking mushrooms on fleabay atm. This one's called "pbmretailltd"

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AGILENT-HP-DSO80204B-2GHz-4-canaux-40-GSA-S-Digital-Oscilloscope-InfiniiVision/233577886397


EDIT: Looks very much like a hijacked legit account. Remember to use 2 factor authentication peeps!

EDIT: FFS 4 damn edits to clean up spelling/syntax/container errors...   

[Kosmic]

I don't get it.

There is a nice HP 3456A offered by this zhoefler seller which I've mentioned here occasionly (no affiliations).
But why do people go crazy about this meter? Current bid is 560 Euro!   

For this money one can get without any problems a 34401A in very good condition.   

Link to the auction:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/133396449233

Totally agree with you, the 34401A is IMO a far superior meter in a smaller package and thus ideal for a home lab unless you have 19" racks with spare capacity to fill.

Short term stability of the 3456a is actually far better than the 34401a. Before the 3458a was created, the 3456a was often used as a transfert standard. It's not your everyday bench meter though.

If someone want my 3456a for 560EU$ it's all yours!, I can even cover half the shipping 

[BU508A]

If someone want my 3456a for 560EU$ it's all yours!, I can even cover half the shipping 

Dreamer - Ozzy Osbourne
Cover performed by: Kosmic

   

[Kosmic]

If someone want my 3456a for 560EU$ it's all yours!, I can even cover half the shipping 

Dreamer - Ozzy Osbourne
Cover performed by: Kosmic

   

Ok Ok … Free shipping 

[mnementh]

f you can add a 3PSI gauge and get the pressure down, might be worth a try. Otherwise, for safety's sake, I'll recommend you live with the low pressure/flow of a BBQ reg and limit yourself to thinner metal rather than trying to run without knowing what your pressure really is.

Even at my age I can still piss faster than a jimmyed LPG gauge as proven today.  (no pictures  )

So armed with that FAIL, time to check this Acetylene regulator is greater detail. Yes the mongrel was creeping big time and despite all the online cries of 'send it away to someone that knows what they doing' and 'the liability risk is not worth it' and 'don't put yourself in danger' , it was obvious that further investigation was required. 

Well, what a mess inside after what can only be interpreted as at least one flashback and the coating of soot left behind as evidence. A puking mess ! Ralph !   A full strip of all working parts found the hard nylon seat badly imprinted from the high pressure conical nipple yet all other parts seemed in good....well, seemingly serviceable order.  The nylon seat OTOH was shagged as it had also run misaligned so there were 2 witness marks representing a compact figure 8. 

Luckily the nylon seat was proud of its threaded brass holder so adjustments for length were possible if faced to a new clean seat....so it was ! Well it was shagged anyways so nutthing to lose. Without a setup guide, seat adjustments for play and presumably regulator hysteresis unknown, play was set to ~25 thou just so I knew there was some like before it was dismantled......a wee mistake that might yet get corrected.

Tests indicated some pressure creep was still apparent however it stopped rock solid at 10 PSI. Further tests with a good flow out of the torch and regulator set to 3 PSI showed seemingly perfect pressure stability that rose to 10 PSI repeatedly when the draw off flow was stopped. After some chin and head scratching it seems the seat clearance is set too wide therefore upsetting regulation hysteresis that should be much tighter.

While it was connected and a ciggy lighter available the obligatory proof pic was snapped:      Don't look like much however the flame is ~10-12" long. 
For Pat, I looked up specs on the new Oxy Acetylene hoses used and there is only a recommendation to use the Orange LPG rated hosing, so for now this will do.  Thanks mnem and Pat for your words of experience. 

Yup. This is EXACTLY the behavior I was talking aboot. Be very careful when using it with the flame adjusted like this; it'll be very "poppy" when the tip gets anywhere near the work, and it's running way too rich right at the tip, so very easy to flash back & burn the radial mixing fins in the core of the tip. But at least you got it to stay lit!

            

A proper neutral flame with Oxy-Propane (for cutting preheat) will be somewhere between the two latter images; a ring of pale blue, short jets with no or barely visible central corona, to a shorter barely visible ring of jets with a very short, blue to white corona in the center (an oxidizing flame) as shown in the last pic.

I was afraid your BBQ reg would eff with your head at those pressures/flow; surprised it didn't completely lock up on you every time you opened the valves, honestly.

One other thing to consider; if you're planning to do any gas welding with this, DON'T. Even if you get it running right for cutting, you'll be in no time. Gas welding of ferrous metals (and some forms of brazing) REQUIRES acetylene, as the oxy-acetylene burn creates a CO² shielding gas envelope around the work necessary to make the weld/braze joint.

A PROPERLY set up Oxy-Propane rig can cut heavier metal than a similar Oxy-acetylene rig; the only limitation is the required flow. This is a matter of the mechanics of your regulator AND your LP tank, as long as you have the correct handle.

Cheers,

mnem

[GreyWoolfe]

I do as it happens, have an i7 laptop, but its built like a tank and is designed for hard work, problem is though, I once thought like you, sofa, chilling etc, but the truth of the matter is the noise of typing annoyed SWMBO when she was watching the blasted soaps ( ) and of course, the battery life is not great. They get hot very quickly on your laptop as your clothing restricts the cooling air flow and if you plug them into the mains while using them, the cable becomes yet another hazard with the potential of doing massive damage to them if some gets the feet caught up with the cable. Consequently, my 2 laptops, are sitting beneath my bench with batteries that need charging up because they go flat all the time because they are not used 

Laptops are perfectly fine for business people who might need to use one in a customers premises to do a presentation etc but otherwise IMO they are a waste of money.

I use almost exclusively laptops, and I have one private (2015 vintage 13" MBP, last generation with working keyboard and MagSafe mains) and one work issued (15" MBP, useless but fast keyboard, USB-C only, 2018 vintage). I have  desktop computers, one at work, one at home, but when I log in to them, it's via SSH from my laptop.  At work I have an external screen and a mouse (and the forest of adapters, daisy chained, required, because it's deemed unsightly with ports on a portable computer.) but at home I work (and play) from the kitchen sofa. And I've been there for going on 2 months now, so it apparently works.

As to the performance per currency unit, yes, of course, it's hard to argue with what a desktop can be built for these days. But that computer is not where I want to compute, so I need something to get to it.

Laptop only for work but docked at home.  I have to connect it to things to fix them so no way to use a desktop   I have an old HP laptop that I use occasionally but for myself, desktops prevail.  I don't have near the latest and greatest.  My main computer is an old Dell Precision T5500 with 16 Gb ram.  Since I only use it for email and web surfing, I don't need more.  I have other newer computers for other tasks.