Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Specmaster]

That’s quite normal. I tend to try for CPC and RS first. Takes me longer to select parts then fix stuff.

Aint that the truth, the way they do the selection process is like a sales prevention scheme.

[Mr. Scram]

Makes sense for a cal lab though, you'd expect that the old equipment there is quite stable. (Their references have reached a nice flat platform.)

Is there actually a reason to replace gear, other than something breaking that messes with the stability and calibration?

[Specmaster]

Makes sense for a cal lab though, you'd expect that the old equipment there is quite stable. (Their references have reached a nice flat platform.)

Is there actually a reason to replace gear, other than something breaking that messes with the stability and calibration?

Of course there is, theres the perpetual chasing the latest thing (in most of our cases, a few years after it was released) otherwise this thread and group of thoroughly nice people would be dieing would not exist and we all either to sit and watch prime time TV or put up with SWMBO wagging tongue all the time, why did you ask 

[bd139]

That’s quite normal. I tend to try for CPC and RS first. Takes me longer to select parts then fix stuff.

Aint that the truth, the way they do the selection process is like a sales prevention scheme.

This is what pisses me off:

1K: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/through-hole-fixed-resistors/6833165/
3.3K: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/through-hole-fixed-resistors/6833629/

What. The. Fuck

[Specmaster]

That’s quite normal. I tend to try for CPC and RS first. Takes me longer to select parts then fix stuff.

Aint that the truth, the way they do the selection process is like a sales prevention scheme.

This is what pisses me off:

1K: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/through-hole-fixed-resistors/6833165/
3.3K: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/through-hole-fixed-resistors/6833629/

What. The. Fuck

They need a nice drop down table with filters on it, something like Mouser use, and that isn't perfect either, it still takes bloody ages to select the parts you need. Whats wrong with a page for each of the tolerances,, voltages etc and then yo can go a single page and select via drop down tables the resistance or capacitance value, select the mounting type,  and then everything for that particular voltage or tolerance etc is on that one page. Need another voltage rating cap, go to that particular page and so on until you have what you want.

[bd139]

I tend to go for a series of resistor, so usually I'd pick MRS25s. So you just type MRS25000C and then the resistance value in decimal so 1001 for 1k. Problem solved. Until you find out that the 3.3k ones are £6 a pack and the 1k ones are 30p.

Started buying the CPC MF25's. They are from Royal Ohm so are the same as my resistor dev kit.

[Specmaster]

They can be ridiculous prices, especially when you consider what makes up a resistor and they way they churn them out. The other thing that really pisses me off is when you find what you want, only to discover they they are not a stocked item and the price rockets up and at the end of the day, they are bog standard preferred values but stupid arse buyer has decided that they are not going to carry any stock 

Have they ever heard of the one stop shop? I remember when RS used to carry masses of stock when they were competing with loads of little small local electronic shops, now they have gone like the supermarkets, done away with smaller local shops and now they try and dictate what you are going to have, even if what they say won't do what you want 

[bd139]

To be honest their surface mount parts and availability is fine and the prices are good. The traditional TH stock is dwindling slowly which is the problem.

I'm starting to acknowledge that I need to move in the SMD direction and have been prototyping with it on and off.

[Specmaster]

That SMD is something I hate with a passion, its not BLOODY user friendly is it? It calls for completely new ways of storage and working as everything must be kept separate from other parts  as one part tends to look the same as another with very few if any markings on them to distinguish between one value and another, transistors all appear the same as do diodes etc so just how do you manage to work with it?

I have big hands which does not help when handling such small parts, is there a knack to it, is there a way of identifying different values or resistor / capacitor without having to resort to a meter all the time etc?

[Specmaster]

My anticipated Ebay purchase never happened, it got to stupid kind of money way before the auction was anywhere near finishing, for what it went for at the end, bung a few quid on it and you could get something newer with better specs as well, it went for £28.56 including postage in the end, but it did come with a full set of proper original leads and crocs, and probes as well as the case, oh well, I didn't really need it did I but I haven't brought anything lately and I liked the look of it, with its 10M input impedance, it would been a useful addition to observe rapidly changing voltage fluctuations without impacting on the DUT that on old analogue meter would. 

[bd139]

Those are nice. I think BT issued a derivative of them as well.

Working with SMD is easier than it looks to be honest. I’m getting to the point it’s easier than TH. Just requires thinking up front. I’m using a Weller TCP with a 1.6mm chisel as an iron and it does the job nicely.

[Specmaster]

Ive dabbled with SMD and its ok if using MELF resistors but as far as I can see transistors are a different thing altogether I have some that I ordered as replacements for the Hameg  and also some diodes and they all use the form factor BUT there are no markings on them to correctly identify them, seems crazy to me.

[HalFET]

That SMD is something I hate with a passion, its not BLOODY user friendly is it? It calls for completely new ways of storage and working as everything must be kept separate from other parts  as one part tends to look the same as another with very few if any markings on them to distinguish between one value and another, transistors all appear the same as do diodes etc so just how do you manage to work with it?

I have big hands which does not help when handling such small parts, is there a knack to it, is there a way of identifying different values or resistor / capacitor without having to resort to a meter all the time etc?

SMD isn't too much of an issue - if you have the tools for it. You pretty much need a hot air rework station, and for storing components you just get pieces of tape/strip/reel (or whatever you wish to call it), and label those. If you can't identify the component just toss it in the bin, they're so cheap it's not worth checking it out. 

[tggzzz]

I have big hands which does not help when handling such small parts, is there a knack to it, is there a way of identifying different values or resistor / capacitor without having to resort to a meter all the time etc?

Everybody's hands are large compared with SMD components! Tremor is potentially more of an issue than size.

The trick with SMD identification is to avoid having to do it. That means populating one component type at a time, and not removing them from the labelled bags they arrived in. If you find a component you dropped earlier, then usually you simply bin it,  since you don't know which of the lost components it is.

For the techniques I find useful, see the blog in my .sig. I now prefer SMD, and I'm in my 7th decade, gulp.

[Specmaster]

That SMD is something I hate with a passion, its not BLOODY user friendly is it? It calls for completely new ways of storage and working as everything must be kept separate from other parts  as one part tends to look the same as another with very few if any markings on them to distinguish between one value and another, transistors all appear the same as do diodes etc so just how do you manage to work with it?

I have big hands which does not help when handling such small parts, is there a knack to it, is there a way of identifying different values or resistor / capacitor without having to resort to a meter all the time etc?

SMD isn't too much of an issue - if you have the tools for it. You pretty much need a hot air rework station, and for storing components you just get pieces of tape/strip/reel (or whatever you wish to call it), and label those. If you can't identify the component just toss it in the bin, they're so cheap it's not worth checking it out. 

I already have a hot air rework station and also, albeit, relatively inexpensive meter tweezers for reading vales directly single handed, large desk mounted illuminated magnifier along with a USB microscope, so I have kitted myself out ready for SMD work as I can see that it will become the standard, but it is still horrible to work with by comparison and its getting smaller all the time.

[Specmaster]

I have big hands which does not help when handling such small parts, is there a knack to it, is there a way of identifying different values or resistor / capacitor without having to resort to a meter all the time etc?

Everybody's hands are large compared with SMD components! Tremor is potentially more of an issue than size.

The trick with SMD identification is to avoid having to do it. That means populating one component type at a time, and not removing them from the labelled bags they arrived in. If you find a component you dropped earlier, then usually you simply bin it,  since you don't know which of the lost components it is.

For the techniques I find useful, see the blog in my .sig. I now prefer SMD, and I'm in my 7th decade, gulp.

Hmm, what you say does make perfect sense I know, but here's the rub, you relying on others not make mistakes when you order these parts which typically come in multiples of 50 at a time. No problem if you can buy a complete reel of each type but who wants to buy 1,000's when you are working on something that only use about 50 parts in its entirety. So therefore you order up 50 off each item and they mislabel something and unless you check it before using, you end up with a quite a few items of the wrong value installed  and then you have to go through them and check, which ones are incorrect 

[tautech]

That SMD is something I hate with a passion, its not BLOODY user friendly is it? It calls for completely new ways of storage and working as everything must be kept separate from other parts  as one part tends to look the same as another with very few if any markings on them to distinguish between one value and another, transistors all appear the same as do diodes etc so just how do you manage to work with it?

I have big hands which does not help when handling such small parts, is there a knack to it, is there a way of identifying different values or resistor / capacitor without having to resort to a meter all the time etc?

When you want/need to do SMD you have to jump right in, boots and all.
Come on in, the waters fine. 

For starters there's some investment, you'll resist getting a rework station but there's only so much you can do without one. Some SMD Smart Tweezers are the next big step but there's some cheap Asian ones around that will do the job for vanilla flavoured stuff.
Some pocketed binders are next for SMD passive storage and/or even small SMD actives if they're still on tape.
A small # of compartmented fliptop boxes to store the antistatic bagged IC's in and the whole lot takes only a fraction of the room TH components take.

[Specmaster]

That SMD is something I hate with a passion, its not BLOODY user friendly is it? It calls for completely new ways of storage and working as everything must be kept separate from other parts  as one part tends to look the same as another with very few if any markings on them to distinguish between one value and another, transistors all appear the same as do diodes etc so just how do you manage to work with it?

I have big hands which does not help when handling such small parts, is there a knack to it, is there a way of identifying different values or resistor / capacitor without having to resort to a meter all the time etc?

When you want/need to do SMD you have to jump right in, boots and all.
Come on in, the waters fine. 

For starters there's some investment, you'll resist getting a rework station but there's only so much you can do without one. Some SMD Smart Tweezers are the next big step but there's some cheap Asian ones around that will do the job for vanilla flavoured stuff.
Some pocketed binders are next for SMD passive storage and/or even small SMD actives if they're still on tape.
A small # of compartmented fliptop boxes to store the antistatic bagged IC's in and the whole lot takes only a fraction of the room TH components take.

Already have got the rework station and some tweezers that plug into the DMM as well some small soldering / desoldering tools etc, almost everything except the binders for parts storage, even got some IC extractor tools for removing socketed chips etc so you can see that I'm going down that path already, still doesn't change anything, I still hate it, give me tth stuff any day of the week.

[tautech]

That SMD is something I hate with a passion, its not BLOODY user friendly is it? It calls for completely new ways of storage and working as everything must be kept separate from other parts  as one part tends to look the same as another with very few if any markings on them to distinguish between one value and another, transistors all appear the same as do diodes etc so just how do you manage to work with it?

I have big hands which does not help when handling such small parts, is there a knack to it, is there a way of identifying different values or resistor / capacitor without having to resort to a meter all the time etc?

When you want/need to do SMD you have to jump right in, boots and all.
Come on in, the waters fine. 

For starters there's some investment, you'll resist getting a rework station but there's only so much you can do without one. Some SMD Smart Tweezers are the next big step but there's some cheap Asian ones around that will do the job for vanilla flavoured stuff.
Some pocketed binders are next for SMD passive storage and/or even small SMD actives if they're still on tape.
A small # of compartmented fliptop boxes to store the antistatic bagged IC's in and the whole lot takes only a fraction of the room TH components take.

Already have got the rework station and some tweezers that plug into the DMM as well some small soldering / desoldering tools etc, almost everything except the binders for parts storage, even got some IC extractor tools for removing socketed chips etc so you can see that I'm going down that path already, still doesn't change anything, I still hate it, give me tth stuff any day of the week.

Bite the bullet and get some decent SMD tweezers and stop pissing around with halfway tools.
Sure, these are top of the line but for the hobbyist you can get away with much cheaper versions.

[bd139]

You’ll all laugh if you see my SMD rework tools.

I have some mid range non-magnetic ESD tweezers, flux pen, weller TCP iron and an xacto knife. That’s it!

I bullt an RF power meter with those and some Poundland slug tape and some 1.27mm pitch matrix board from Roth Elektronik.

[AF6LJ]

I am not laughing; that sounds like my SMD rework tools.

[Specmaster]

There're not rework tools, more of building tools, the clue is in the name "rework" which does really (but not always) mean essentially a hot air gun, so that all the pins of a chip can desoldered together, or the removal of things like Jtag connectors etc in conjunction with Kapton tape to protect surrounding devices from the heat otherwise you will remove more than you meant to do 

[tautech]

SMD is easy IF the board has been laid out with the thought of rework, so many aren't. 

For SOIC you only need a small hot air nozzle, in fact that's all I've ever used for SMD inline packages.
Passives with normal ends can be removed with Hakko 900 K shaped tips so to span across the component to melt the solder on both pads simultaneously, then gently wipe it to one side where it can be recovered with tweezers.


Gull and J wing packages need hot tweezers or air.

[tggzzz]

There're not rework tools, more of building tools, the clue is in the name "rework" which does really (but not always) mean essentially a hot air gun, so that all the pins of a chip can desoldered together, or the removal of things like Jtag connectors etc in conjunction with Kapton tape to protect surrounding devices from the heat otherwise you will remove more than you meant to do 

Precisely; you beat me to it w.r.t the kapton tape.

For initial construction (i.e. not rework), add a saucepan plus sand or, if you want to feel "correct", a hombrew reflux oven

[Specmaster]

SMD is easy IF the board has been laid out with the thought of rework, so many aren't. 

For SOIC you only need a small hot air nozzle, in fact that's all I've ever used for SMD inline packages.
Passives with normal ends can be removed with Hakko 900 K shaped tips so to span across the component to melt the solder on both pads simultaneously, then gently wipe it to one side where it can be recovered with tweezers.


Gull and J wing packages need hot tweezers or air.

I don't know for sure but I think that method, while it does work in some circumstances, wont work for mobile phone repair work. I had to remove a charging socket on a Samsung mobile and those things are so packed solid that getting a K type tip in was impossible I found so the Kapton Tape and a small nozzle on a hot air gun was the best solution especially as there was some pretty large ground planes sucking heat up like it was going out of fashion.