Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[tggzzz]

About food safety...

Before making a few comments, I'll note I'm not a wimp in this area: I have food in my cupboard marked "best before Dec 1992", have hanging meat in my cellar from last November, and go foraging for fruit, nuts and fungi. I regularly deliberately leave meat in the fridge beyond its use by date, I know how to hang pluck and draw pheasants, and occasionally kill my food just before eating it. I also know I am not an expert, and am continually learning new things in this area.

Basically we are talking probabilities here, and changing some of the variables a little can have a very significant effect on the probability of getting ill. Basically the reactions are exponential above an activation energy/temperature, so bugger all below and steep above that temperature.

There are some nasty buggers around, and typically they live in wet starch (e.g. cooked rice and pasta) rather than protein; the classic is bacillus cereus. With "wet starch", especially pasta, reheating can turn it into an unappetising mush, so there is a temptation to reheat the minimum amount. I think the potential danger is obvious. The other nasty with bacillus cereus is that it produces a toxin that isn't removed by heating.

That is all far less important with "pure" meat/veg items, so keeping bolognese sauce for a while and combining it with freshly cooked pasta is much safer than reheating the pasta.

And yes, stews that are a few days old really do taste much better

If you are interested in this topic, then a suitable starting point is Cooking For Geeks. Any food book that has a section "PEBKAC and RTFR" is worth a look

[bd139]

Good advice. Lots of people don't actually know anything about food hygiene. In fact I stopped my eldest only two weeks ago making up a rice mix to take to school the next day for lunch. This was caught after she'd left it on the side for 4 hours to cool down and forgotten about putting it in the fridge. Plus it would have sat in her bag for at least 5 hours in the warm. Not the best idea. And I was the bad person for putting it in the bin 

[GreyWoolfe]

 especially pasta, reheating can turn it into an unappetising mush,

I tend to fry my leftover pasta with a bit of olive oil.  No mush there.

[tggzzz]

 especially pasta, reheating can turn it into an unappetising mush,

I tend to fry my leftover pasta with a bit of olive oil.  No mush there.

I used to fry leftover rice, and still do - iff I'm certain of how it was stored.

[Mr. Scram]

Sounds like I should have been dead at least a dozen times over.

[tggzzz]

Sounds like I should have been dead at least a dozen times over.

That's the kind of thing said by people "justifying" walking into the road without looking.

It is a probability thing, where the probability also includes age and immune system health, and...

[Mr. Scram]

That's the kind of thing said by people "justifying" walking into the road without looking.

It is a probability thing, where the probability also includes age and immune system health, and...

Using your senses isn't exactly going in blind. A major reason for developing our primary senses is the assessment of the quality of our food intake. Looking at, smelling and sampling food goes a long way. It's not watertight and there are some pitfalls, but you've definitely slated those probabilities in your favour.

[Specmaster]

Good advice. Lots of people don't actually know anything about food hygiene. In fact I stopped my eldest only two weeks ago making up a rice mix to take to school the next day for lunch. This was caught after she'd left it on the side for 4 hours to cool down and forgotten about putting it in the fridge. Plus it would have sat in her bag for at least 5 hours in the warm. Not the best idea. And I was the bad person for putting it in the bin 

Said the man who had reheated lasagne for breakfast which means reheated pasta which is as bad as that rice would have been [emoji53]

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[Specmaster]

Sounds like I should have been dead at least a dozen times over.

That's the kind of thing said by people "justifying" walking into the road without looking.

It is a probability thing, where the probability also includes age and immune system health, and...

Yep and those habits as you get older will increase the risk factor as well. SWMBO is crazy about best before dates as are my boys. If an egg is a day past the date they won't eat it. My mum used to pop them in bowl of water and if it sinks to the bottom, it's safe to eat[emoji83]

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[mnementh]

...Picked up a big can of Chock-Full-o-Nuts when we headed back, which my wife brewed while I heated up the bacon & eggs & biscuits "breakfast for dinner" she'd made while we were out. Which was, in fact, exactly what I was thinking of making for myself all the way home. 

mnem
I used up a lifetime's worth of luck finding her... *sigh*

bacon & eggs & biscuits "breakfast for dinner"  That sure sounds like a red neck dinner 

  right back atcha, buddy. Ain't nuthin' wrong with fresh-made bacon & eggs any time of day or night. Comfort food; it don't give a flying fuck what anybody else thinks, and a plateful with one biscuit is actually still on my diet. Plus, I get to come home to someone who'll make 'em for me "just because" so "neener-neener-neener!" atcha too, while I'm thinkin' of it.  

mnem
Yum.

Absolutely naff all wrong with fresh made bacon and eggs but bacon and eggs and biscuit that's a no no, but I suspect that you Merikins possibly call fried bread, biscuits, to us Brits, biscuits conjuror up something to be eaten with cheese or sweet biscuits to eaten with coffee or Tea, so are you going to spill the beans as to just what it is that you call "biscuits"??     

Oh... it was the biscuits that threw you off.  

Yeah; what you scone-eaters call "a biscuit" we 'merkins call "a nasty cookie".    The least offensive being the subject of our "Jammy Git" meme; which if I'm not mistaken, is a tolerable flaky-layer butter cookie with thickened/chewy fruit preserves in the middle...? We call those a "thumbprint cookie" due to how they're made. Most of what y'all eat as biscuits we would consider inedible; and just tol'able soaked in coffee or tea til it almost crumbles. 

Yes I had reheated lasagne for breakfast today 

I agree with the orange sociopathic kitteh from hell... "Lasagna is the world's most nearly perfect food."  Sadly, it is something I cannot permit in my home most of the time, as if it is there I will eat it. 2AM... 3PM... breakfast or fourthmeal... I'll eat it til it's gone. 

mnem
*Remembering teenage years spent foraging in night clubs and waking up in strange living rooms to "The Breakfast of Champions": Warm beer and cold pizza.*

[bd139]

Good advice. Lots of people don't actually know anything about food hygiene. In fact I stopped my eldest only two weeks ago making up a rice mix to take to school the next day for lunch. This was caught after she'd left it on the side for 4 hours to cool down and forgotten about putting it in the fridge. Plus it would have sat in her bag for at least 5 hours in the warm. Not the best idea. And I was the bad person for putting it in the bin 

Said the man who had reheated lasagne for breakfast which means reheated pasta which is as bad as that rice would have been [emoji53]

It was refrigerated quickly and efficiently and cooked properly. As tggzzz says it's mostly the temperature and what grows above that temperature you have to worry about. Generally you need to store stuff below 5oC to prevent bacteria growing and cook it above 75oC to destroy all the bacteria. Anything between that is problematic. Room temperature is the killer. So leaving stuff on the side or in a bag is how you get sick.

For me I stuffed it in the microwave for 5 minutes, lifted the middle up and hit it with the Fluke 62 MAX to confirm it was heated through properly

[Mr. Scram]

Yep and those habits as you get older will increase the risk factor as well. SWMBO is crazy about best before dates as are my boys. If an egg is a day past the date they won't eat it. My mum used to pop them in bowl of water and if it sinks to the bottom, it's safe to eat[emoji83]

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The best before date isn't gospel either. I would have gotten very sick a few times if I'd depended on it. Use your senses.

[mnementh]

Never been much of a breakfast eater. Just give me my coffee...which I am drinking right now.    Typical American breakfast. Mostly starch and carbs. No wonder we're fat. 

It's not the starch & carbs; it's the fact of EVERY MEAL being large quantities of starch, simple sugars  AND fatty meats. AND the fact that our socioeconomic structure actively devalues everybody who actually does productive work, while rewarding most those who "advance" to parasitic positions where all their work is done at a desk. 

You can be healthy and keep the weight off eating EITHER ONE; by being active and counting calories on a mostly starch diet or by limiting starch carbs and loading up on fiber carbs with a high-protein diet. It's when your diet is BOTH at the same time (read: pretty much EVERY form of MRE in the grocery store and MOST restaurants) that it becomes near-impossible to manage weight, even with reasonable amounts of exercise. Which is, of course, "The American Way" of making food "for profit", because grain fillers and simple starches have the highest profit margin compared to actual protein and fresh vegetables. 

You know who lives forever? Asian fishermen. Lots of hard physical work in a tropical environment, diet mostly rice (the simplest starch available) with small amounts of fish protein high in amino acids & antioxidants.

mnem
*Sigh*

[bd139]

rewarding most those who "advance" to parasitic positions where all their work is done at a desk. 

Hey some of us work while pooping too 

[ArthurDent]

tgzzz-"...and occasionally kill my food just before eating it."

Does that mean there is some of your food you don't kill before you eat it? 

[bd139]

To be fair it's pretty hard to completely kill a lettuce before you eat it.

[mnementh]

...and occasionally kill my food just before eating it."

Does that mean there is some of your food you don't kill before you eat it? 

Yessss. 

mnem
Think scaly.

[ArthurDent]

This is the solution:

[Specmaster]

Good advice. Lots of people don't actually know anything about food hygiene. In fact I stopped my eldest only two weeks ago making up a rice mix to take to school the next day for lunch. This was caught after she'd left it on the side for 4 hours to cool down and forgotten about putting it in the fridge. Plus it would have sat in her bag for at least 5 hours in the warm. Not the best idea. And I was the bad person for putting it in the bin 

Said the man who had reheated lasagne for breakfast which means reheated pasta which is as bad as that rice would have been [emoji53]

It was refrigerated quickly and efficiently and cooked properly. As tggzzz says it's mostly the temperature and what grows above that temperature you have to worry about. Generally you need to store stuff below 5oC to prevent bacteria growing and cook it above 75oC to destroy all the bacteria. Anything between that is problematic. Room temperature is the killer. So leaving stuff on the side or in a bag is how you get sick.

For me I stuffed it in the microwave for 5 minutes, lifted the middle up and hit it with the Fluke 62 MAX to confirm it was heated through properly

Now now, there's no need to hit it, just point the Fluke 62 MAX at it and squeeze the trigger 

[Specmaster]

Yep and those habits as you get older will increase the risk factor as well. SWMBO is crazy about best before dates as are my boys. If an egg is a day past the date they won't eat it. My mum used to pop them in bowl of water and if it sinks to the bottom, it's safe to eat[emoji83]

Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

The best before date isn't gospel either. I would have gotten very sick a few times if I'd depended on it. Use your senses.

Very true, its as bd139 said, its all down to temperature and how its been stored.

[tggzzz]

That's the kind of thing said by people "justifying" walking into the road without looking.

It is a probability thing, where the probability also includes age and immune system health, and...

Using your senses isn't exactly going in blind. A major reason for developing our primary senses is the assessment of the quality of our food intake. Looking at, smelling and sampling food goes a long way. It's not watertight and there are some pitfalls, but you've definitely slated those probabilities in your favour.

Just so. But there are still some nasty toxins, e.g. from bacillus cereus, and especially clostridium botulinum.

I was once at a wedding between X and Y, where Y was the daughter of the owners of a large company. One week earlier that company's products had made the news by killing people via botulism.

A distant relative was unwell for a year and they were just about to excise large parts of his body. Fortunately they realised in time that he had brucellosis from unpasteurised milk.

[tggzzz]

Sounds like I should have been dead at least a dozen times over.

That's the kind of thing said by people "justifying" walking into the road without looking.

It is a probability thing, where the probability also includes age and immune system health, and...

Yep and those habits as you get older will increase the risk factor as well. SWMBO is crazy about best before dates as are my boys. If an egg is a day past the date they won't eat it. My mum used to pop them in bowl of water and if it sinks to the bottom, it's safe to eat[emoji83]

I'm extremely careful about some use by dates (e.g. salads) and pretty lax about others.

But I'm always very careful when my mother might eat things, even if she isn't.

[tggzzz]

tgzzz-"...and occasionally kill my food just before eating it."

Does that mean there is some of your food you don't kill before you eat it? 

That wasn't what I meant, but actually that is also the case, albeit rarely. (Well, quite often if you include fruit and veg...)

I was put off for a few decades because that caused my digestive tract to evacuate at both ends simultaneously, even though I'd bought the items in Harrod's food hall!

Edit: they need to be regarded as the food of the poor, but now you normally get them in high-end restaurants and foodie establishments.

[mnementh]

The world universe is OUT TO GET YOU!!!   

mnem
"Listen... It's a tough universe. There's all sorts of people & things trying to do you, kill you, rip you off; everything. If you're going to survive out there... You've really got to know where your towel is."

[bd139]

That wasn't what I meant, but actually that is also the case, albeit rarely. (Well, quite often if you include fruit and veg...)

I was put off for a few decades because that caused my digestive tract to evacuate at both ends simultaneously, even though I'd bought the items in Harrod's food hall!

Edit: they need to be regarded as the food of the poor, but now you normally get them in high-end restaurants and foodie establishments.

I think the only thing that did that to me was a suspiciously luke warm cheeseburger and stella artois. Yes both were luke warm. They were the only two things left to consume in the on train cafe on a trip on the Midland Mainline escaping Nottingham to London circa 2001. I reckon the burger had done a couple of trips at that temperature. I had to pay for a taxi home and the additional £30 soiling charge and arrived home minus any dignity I may have collected over the years.