Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[m k]

They are many other changes, hence the reference to a different manual for the older ones, I need to find the older one.

I found a list from early '70s with many low 60k numbers, possibly the same list from where you found those chip drawings, 15 and 24 were not there.
15 has that extended edge so I guess it should be a complete part.

It's not helping much, too much similar numbers around the product repertoire.
Always some current stuff is bloating search results.

[factory]

They are many other changes, hence the reference to a different manual for the older ones, I need to find the older one.

I found a list from early '70s with many low 60k numbers, possibly the same list from where you found those chip drawings, 15 and 24 were not there.
15 has that extended edge so I guess it should be a complete part.

It's not helping much, too much similar numbers around the product repertoire.
Always some current stuff is bloating search results.

I'm confused, what is 60k, 15 & 24?

The chip diagrams & information were all found in HP service manuals, various 52xx/53xx counter manuals and the unlabelled drawings showing the; blanking decade counter IC, latch IC and display decoder/driver, were in the HP 8443A manual (older version).

The later HP 8443A got an LED display update, they used a microprocessor for the display board, in place of the custom ICs and used the 74LS490 in place of the custom 8 pin divider ICs, on the timebase board.

David

[Ice-Tea]

Sorensen DCR PSU.

[m k]

I'm confused, what is 60k, 15 & 24?

Latter part of part numbers, 600xx.
I thought that using something else as source would reveal something different.
Wrong thought.

One old 5326A manual I found where some schematics pages are very dark but I think they can be fixed if needed.
Original page is probably colored, but enough contrast seems to be still available.

[factory]

Thanks, I understand now.

600-15 is the board I had made, original was missing from the second 5327B, it's the voltmeter display control board (A14), it's well documented in the Artek manual that got leaked on the web. The picture in the manual shows a 16 pin divider IC, but only half is used, most have the 8 pin divider IC, I finally found a picture showing the 16 pin IC fitted, sorry it's crap quality, archived from ePay years ago by me.


I've found the older manual you were looking at, it's crap as you know, seems to have multiple scans of the manual stuck together, the 600-07 & 600-24 are called A7A & A7B function control in that manual, seems to be a mix of TTL logic, ECL logic, with a RCA trannystor array.


I would never have guessed it had a service position for the second board, that answers the how the heck do you work on this if it fails. 


Later 600-31 combined A7 function control board is all ECL logic, with several custom HP level translators.


P.S. I thought I had a preliminary manual for the older 5326A/B, but couldn't find it the other day.

David

[TERRA Operative]

My guess is that NI and VLSI chips are quite same.

Can you open up your troubleshooting a bit?
Maybe a dip is not dipping correctly.

One version of NI and VLSI models seem to have equal layouts and only 3 tracks to controller chip.
Maybe it's a simple Chip Select thingy that can be guessed and hardwired.

Some cases IRQ and DMA are not mandatory.
Maybe different test program can see it differently.

One of my two cards works fine, and swapping chips between the good and bad board points to the GAL chip being the issue.

The larger VLSI/NAT4882D seem only semi-compatible with each other (or the NAT4882D chip is only partially faulty...)
When the faulty board is used, the Tek FAS software fails with an error outright. Hard nope.
When I swap the NAT4882D chip from the bad board to the good one (that has the VLSI chip), the Tek FAS software sees the card, recognises it and tries to connect to the scope but cannot. So something is working to a point, which makes me think it's either a bad GAL on the bad board or a partially bad NAT4882D chip.

Of course, using the good board in its original configuration works perfectly with the Tek FAS software.

I've found bad GAL chips in other equipment before, so my money is on some sort of bitrot rather than the other chips being faulty.

[m k]

By swapping controller chips you can't guarantee other settings.
NI must have an old test software somewhere.
Maybe it can give a second opinion.

Some early plug'n'pray attempts had a scan feature.
With that kind of test software you can check wrong settings.

I guess you didn't take any pictures when chips were off.
3rd pin after 1st corner is _CS, from VLSI manual, lowest of GAL pins to controller chip.
Middle GAL pin goes under the corner but highest could be DRQ, last before 1st corner.

Layouts are the same.
VLSI support chip is 70494-01 and NI version is 70494B-01.
VLSI board is silk REV.E and NI version is sticker REV.1, nasty business.
They don't even distinguish between those two chips.

I guess NI Controller _CS is now proved.
But the other two, maybe NI swapped their functions.

E,
between in between.

[m k]

I would never have guessed it had a service position for the second board, that answers the how the heck do you work on this if it fails. 

Somebody should show that to Compaq bosses.

BTW,
earlier parts list is HP-Parts-List-1973-74.
Obviously it does not include any chip drawings, I've mixed some documents and can't even find the source.
Educative moment, do not shuffle too many PDFs too fast.

[factory]

The 1973/74 HP part price list is on the HP archive site here; http://hparchive.com/hp_parts

Will be interesting to see if this is anything that hasn't been uploaded before: https://groups.io/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/topic/hp_part_s_list/94908016

David

[Mad Axeman]

AAAARRRGGGHHHHHHHHH...............................
I've done it again. I've just bought a 'spares or repair' Kewtech KT77. Not sure what state it's in but I couldn't resist. I have promised myself that I'm going to sell one of my fully working KT77s though, maybe, perhaps, well, we'll see.

Well, the KT77 is now up and running. The fault was as expected. Someone had connected a live cable to the IEC lead test socket. Just need to knock up an earth bond cable and that's another PAT tester added to the list. I am going to sell one of my other KT77s though. I have got my eyes on two other PA Testers at the moment although funds are dropping. Just spent a bit on another hobby - a Bachmann model of the LMS 10000 diesel loco and a Heljan BRCW Lion prototype diesel. I think I need to work a bit more overtime to boost the funds up again.

[AVGresponding]

Well, the KT77 is now up and running. The fault was as expected. Someone had connected a live cable to the IEC lead test socket. Just need to knock up an earth bond cable and that's another PAT tester added to the list. I am going to sell one of my other KT77s though. I have got my eyes on two other PA Testers at the moment although funds are dropping. Just spent a bit on another hobby - a Bachmann model of the LMS 10000 diesel loco and a Heljan BRCW Lion prototype diesel. I think I need to work a bit more overtime to boost the funds up again.

It's certainly easier to spend than to earn...

Nice Neutrik XLR plug arrived today, I'll have to rummage around to find the best cable for the job.

[Mad Axeman]

It's certainly easier to spend than to earn...

Nice Neutrik XLR plug arrived today, I'll have to rummage around to find the best cable for the job.[/color][/font][/b]

A nice bit of silicon if you are going to keep it. Nice and flexi.

I've done a really daft thing today - bought yet another tester. It's one I've never seen in the flesh (plastic?). Gossen Secutest with the optional keypad/printer. Got the price down from what was being asked but still more than I wanted to pay. I REALLY need to start taking control of my life    Only problem is I won't see it for 2 weeks. I'm off to Scotland on Sunday with work.

[factory]

For those that don't look at contest section of the forum and don't need another scope to go with the 5+ you already have, there are some giveaways of Keysight* scopes, you need 20 posts to enter, https://www.eevblog.com/forum/contests/.

*could be worse, at least it not got Siglent printed on the front. 

David

[m k]

But who knows, maybe it has secret features.

[m k]

NI must have an old test software somewhere.

I think I can make a simple one, if needed.

[zrq]

Does anyone in Switzerland or EU interested in a HP 59401A bus system analyzer? I found one in good shape in our trash dump. Although I prefer more modern tools for analyzing GPIB, it still deserves a better home than being shipped to poor guys in Asia or Africa making living by handling e-waste. If anyone want it and let me know before it disappears, I'll pull it out and send it for just the shipping charge and probably 5 CHF for packaging.

[AVGresponding]

It's certainly easier to spend than to earn...

Nice Neutrik XLR plug arrived today, I'll have to rummage around to find the best cable for the job.[/color][/font][/b]

A nice bit of silicon if you are going to keep it. Nice and flexi.

This should suffice:

I've done a really daft thing today - bought yet another tester. It's one I've never seen in the flesh (plastic?). Gossen Secutest with the optional keypad/printer. Got the price down from what was being asked but still more than I wanted to pay. I REALLY need to start taking control of my life    Only problem is I won't see it for 2 weeks. I'm off to Scotland on Sunday with work.

Oooops...

Hope that counts as overtime, sounds like it's needed!   

[Mad Axeman]

I would have gone for a black clip rather than red but thats just me being awkward
Yup, drive to Scotland on Sunday is double time plus working up there the following weekend so good pay coming up. I'll try and remember the flash probe tomorrow.

[AVGresponding]

I would have gone for a black clip rather than red but thats just me being awkward
Yup, drive to Scotland on Sunday is double time plus working up there the following weekend so good pay coming up. I'll try and remember the flash probe tomorrow.

So would I, but unfortunately I couldn't find any black boots, though I think I have some...   

Thanks, much appreciated!

[Specmaster]

Dave has posted this alert video of a eBay scam, we have already covered this type of thing before, but I thought it was worth mentioning this again just to keep us all on our toes for these things and of course there will be others who have not encountered anything like it, so this will be a warning for them as well.

[factory]

Does anyone in Switzerland or EU interested in a HP 59401A bus system analyzer? I found one in good shape in our trash dump. Although I prefer more modern tools for analyzing GPIB, it still deserves a better home than being shipped to poor guys in Asia or Africa making living by handling e-waste. If anyone want it and let me know before it disappears, I'll pull it out and send it for just the shipping charge and probably 5 CHF for packaging.

Looks nice, I've got a few things with GPIB, but have never used them remotely, have no room for a computer in the workshop ATM.
CuriousMarc was demomstating one here (video in reply #6), but also using something a bit more recent.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/hp-59401a-gpib-bus-system-analyser/

I'm not in the Switzerland or EU, therefore cannot rescue this anyway, hopefully someone will. 

David

[factory]

It's certainly easier to spend than to earn...

Nice Neutrik XLR plug arrived today, I'll have to rummage around to find the best cable for the job.[/color][/font][/b]

A nice bit of silicon if you are going to keep it. Nice and flexi.

This should suffice:

Looks rather like the cable that one cowPAT company (used by the idiots in charge at work) deliberately forgets to bring with them, so they can rush though the sticker testing and have it done in no time. 

We used to do testing in house, with the Seaward Supernova, it took about a week or two to check everything in the lab at work. Then it got outsourced, first company was fine dispute not having the expensive brand equipment.

The company they used after are complete cowboys, they usually forget the earth bond lead, never visually check cables for damage etc. One year the knobhead doing the testing showed me his new technique, which was to plug everything in to the bench supply, do one test with the PAT machine and stick the stickers on everything.  Another year they managed to pass a battery operated (the only power source) Beckman DMM. 

David

[Robert763]

One place I worked outsourced PAT work. They sold equipment worldwide so had stocks of IEC 60320 leads with Euro, US and Australian plugs as well as UK "13A". PAT operator came in over the weekend. They tested and labled all brand new sealed in the bag UK ones AND cut the plugs off of the EU, US and Aussie ones and fitted 13A plugs. Tried to chrage several pounds each for those 
Needless to say they did not get paid and had to pay for the modified leads.

[AVGresponding]

Good grief...   

I mean, seriously, how the fuck do you PAT a battery DMM? I would have frog-marched that twat off the premises

[M0HZH]

HP 435B RF power meter for £29.99 off eBay.

Of course, the RIFA capacitor did RIFA things at first power-up, taking the rare 32mm 63mA temporised fuse with it (costs half of what I paid for the meter), but after fix and clean-up makes for a nice back-up underneath the younger 437B.