LCR Cal Test PCB

[mawyatt]

For these low value capacitors we are more concerned with the Capacitance C than Q and with the overall impedance Z.

Best,

[KungFuJosh]

For these low value capacitors we are more concerned with the Capacitance C than Q and with the overall impedance Z.

So at what point do you start caring about Q?

[mawyatt]

We generally don't, for us "Q" is just a qualitative term like High Q or Low Q, similar to "Low Loss".

For example the mentioned High "Q" C0G type capacitors, here we are interested in the capacitance but knowing it's "Low Loss" because of High "Q", meaning Rs is low compared to Z.

Best,

[KungFuJosh]

We generally don't, for us "Q" is just a qualitative term like High Q or Low Q, similar to "Low Loss".

For example the mentioned High "Q" C0G type capacitors, here we are interested in the capacitance but knowing it's "Low Loss" because of High "Q", meaning Rs is low compared to Z.

Perfect, now I just need to remember that. 😉

[Martin72]

Q is not entirely uninteresting.
Chokes, for example, which have the same induction value at first glance, but differ significantly in terms of Q, will subsequently cause problems in terms of losses/function.
The same also largely applies to capacitors.
What is interesting in this context is how precisely the meters display or calculate and indicate this value.

[Kean]

Did the Gerber files for V5 get shared?

I'd like to make one of these up at some point to see how my CKT5000 compares with my handheld Tonghui and ST42 tweezers.  And whatever I buy next...  .

[KungFuJosh]

Did the Gerber files for V5 get shared?

I'd like to make one of these up at some point to see how my CKT5000 compares with my handheld Tonghui and ST42 tweezers.  And whatever I buy next...  .

Not yet. I'm waiting on updating the BOM and stuff. For now I have extra (unpopulated) PCBs I can sell for $10 plus shipping if anybody wants them.

[Kean]

Thanks Josh.  I can wait.  Just wanted to be sure I didn't miss a mention of it.
I haven't ordered the parts yet, and shipping a single PCB to me down under makes little sense.

[mawyatt]

Here's something folks might find interesting wrt to DMM testing/calibration and forgoes the Kelvin Clips.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/ac-rms-dmm-tests/msg3940957/#msg3940957

We may have posted something on the Resistive & Capacitive devices but can't remember since long ago

Obviously these are specific to Bench type DMM use with the 4 terminals (except the Capacitor set which is just 2 terminal).

Best,

[KungFuJosh]

I got the Hioki 3532-50 working, and ran it through the Cal Test PCB.

Looks decent, but could definitely use a calibration/adjustment from Hioki. PDF attached.

[shabaz]

Nice instrument. I've not used a Hioki LCR meter.
I had a quick look at the PDF, the results look like it's functioning well. Unless I missed something, aside from the very large inductances at high frequency, which might not be very relevant, all remainder measurements looks very close to the comparison measurements, at least so close that any circuit designed for normal tolerances should function extremely well if components are selected based on measurements from the Hioki.

[KungFuJosh]

Nice instrument. I've not used a Hioki LCR meter.
I had a quick look at the PDF, the results look like it's functioning well. Unless I missed something, aside from the very large inductances at high frequency, which might not be very relevant, all remainder measurements looks very close to the comparison measurements, at least so close that any circuit designed for normal tolerances should function extremely well if components are selected based on measurements from the Hioki.

Thanks, I'm a big fun of Hioki LCRs. The quality is unmatched so far from what I've used.

There are two Hiokis on there (of mine, and the 3rd one is Mike's) all are really nice.

Regarding the 3532-50, for the most part it agrees pretty well. However, there are a few things that are too far off.

For example, 1M and 10M resistance measurements are generally bad. 100k is also too far out to be acceptable, though not nearly as bad. 10kΩ and below generally seem close enough.

Step dissipation factor is not good enough either, especially in the smaller values.

Capacitance is generally pretty good except for 10pF at 10kHz and below. Granted, that's not really expected to do very well, but was father off than the other meters.

Inductance in general is pretty good except for 100nH is way off. However, I don't think those inductors were anywhere near where they should have been for specified test frequencies. That said, it was still farther off than any of the other meters. I have new caps and inductors to try out on a new board now that all these meters have been compared.

Still generally pretty darn good for a 23 year old LCR meter. Hioki does adjustments with no extra charge when they do calibrations for Hioki gear, so I'm waiting to hear back from them for pricing.

Thanks,
Josh

[shabaz]

I've got an ancient LCR meter that I need to work on, (it's been on the back-burner for a couple of years!) it runs, but there's a higher discrepancy than desired, compared to a more modern LCR meter.
It's a 'Chen Hwa 1061 LCZ meter'. It was low-cost so I took a gamble. When I took a look inside, it was pretty old.. running with a Zilog Z80.

[KungFuJosh]

Chen Hwa 1061 LCZ meter

That's an old school beast! The picture I found made it look kinda huge. It should be a fun project though when you finally have time.

[shabaz]

Definitely. I'll take some pics and share them next time I have it open.