Tektronix scope with sampling plug-in?

[Lars Gunnarsson]

Hi,

Can I use a Tektronix 7613 (or -23, -33) mainframe with Tektronix 7S11 and 7T11?
Tek claims that 7S11 and 7T11 can be used with Tektronix 7000 series......

Or must I use "the larger" 7104?
I appreciate any comments.
Thanks
           /Lars G

[Alex Eisenhut]

I recommend the Yahoo Tekscopes group.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/TekScopes/conversations/messages

[MadTux]

Any scope can be used, preferably one with analog storage (7613,7623,7633) or better digital storage (7854), because the signal is not real time. Instead the sampler only produces 1 point, each time it's triggered. So if the signal has low repetition rate, the old points are long gone, before the total waveform is sampled. Therefore you need a storage scope or take a picture of the CRT with a DSLR and long exposure time.

[David Hess]

Hi,

Can I use a Tektronix 7613 (or -23, -33) mainframe with Tektronix 7S11 and 7T11?
Tek claims that 7S11 and 7T11 can be used with Tektronix 7000 series......

Or must I use "the larger" 7104?
I appreciate any comments.

The 7S11 and 7T11 will work fine in a 7613, 7623, 7633, or any of their versions.  Variable persistence storage is very useful with sampling and I suspect the 7613 would produce the best display because it is optimized for variable persistence.

The 7104 uses a CRT with a MCP (micro channel plate) and would not be a good choice.

The 4 bay oscilloscopes have an advantage in being able to display a single sampling channel and one or two real time traces simultaneously.

[David Hess]

Any scope can be used, preferably one with analog storage (7613,7623,7633) or better digital storage (7854), because the signal is not real time. Instead the sampler only produces 1 point, each time it's triggered. So if the signal has low repetition rate, the old points are long gone, before the total waveform is sampled. Therefore you need a storage scope or take a picture of the CRT with a DSLR and long exposure time.

The 7854 works really well because of its ability to average out noise but has some issues with the 7T11 and does not support it completely which is why the later was updated to the 7T11A.  There is a kit available online for converting the 7T11 into the 7T11A.

The maximum sample rate of the 7T11 and 7S11 is about 50 kSamples/second but in practice a good display without storage can be produced at a fraction of that.

[PaulAm]

There's a modification procedure on the net somewhere on converting a 7t11 to a 7t11a, which is only needed for the 7854.   It is not very involved.

Although storage may be helpful, you can use the sampling plugins with just about any 7000 series scope.

Here's a quote from the Tektronix website

Sampling has been a viable method of reproducing high-bandwidth repetitive signals for many years. The 7603 oscilloscope with 7S11/7T11 plug-ins and S4 sampling head is capable of being used to 14 GHz. You could learn more about sampling techniques in the document called  Sampling Techniques Primer, Tektronix literature number 47W-7209.

The 7603 is nice since it has the largest 7000 series screen, although it is only a 100 MHz mainframe.

[edit]
That app note is availabe on Tek's website.  Here's the link
http://www.tek.com/sites/tek.com/files/media/media/resources/Sampling%20Oscilloscope%20Techniques.pdf

[David Hess]

Dave Partridge makes the kit and hangs out over at TekScopes@yahoogroups.com where we discussed it, the 7T11, and 7T11A while he developed it.  There are some errors in the 7T11 and/or 7T11A service manual schematics which did not help.

http://www.perdrix.co.uk/7T11Conversion/index.htm

The large screen of the 7603 has all kinds of advantages but I usually keep a 7CT1N curve tracer and 7A13 differential comparator installed in it.  Its 7603 vertical output goes to one of my DSOs so I can use the 7A13 with it.

If I had to choose a dedicated mainframe to use with the 7T11 or 7T11A, it would be either the 7613 or 7854 despite their smaller screen sizes.

[Neganur]

Hej Lars
The 7T11, 7T11A, 7S12, 7S11, 7CT1N, 7A22, 7A13 etc. work just fine in a 7104, 7904 and 7603. However, the 7904, 7603 might be a better choice since you don't have to be so afraid of burning the tube and the plugins don't need the fast bandwidth.

[Lars Gunnarsson]

Gentlemen,

First of all, let me thank you all "citizen of the world" for the nice and friendly answers I got on my littel query!
It really helped me!

The reason for my question is like this;
I have repaired some old Philips PM3400 sampling oscilloscopes. The scopes were manufactored during 1960...1980 in a Philips factory (PIE) in Sweden and I worked there.

A usual fault is; no sweep. Just a bright spot on the CRT. The reason to this is often in the trigger-timebase circuit.
The trig/tb board is equipped with 3 tunnel diodes (TD). TD253A and TD253B for the trig and 1N3718 for the timebas. All TD´s are made by GE.
A TD is nowadays a rare and very expensive component. TD253B can be found at americanmicrosemiconductor for US $177 each. Shipping abroad $50.
Plus Swedish VAT 25% on both item and shipping. I bought a few and destroyd(!) some....

I found on ebay, Russian military surplus TD. One model, 1I308D, seems to have the same data as the TD253B i.e. my 3400 works fine with the
1I308D.
An important parameter is the TD´s switching-time. Acc. to spec. the TD253B has 70pS. I have no information for the Russian type. However, the switching time
can be calculated. The TD253B seems to give less noise that the 1I308D.

My intention is to measure the TD´s switching-time with the Tek. gear.

Imagies attachwed are;
IMG_4409. Pulse risetime 200pS.                    Timebase on PM3400 100pS/div
IMG_4408. Pulse risetime 200pS.                    Timebase on PM3400 100pS/div
IMG_4234  Sinus 3,9GHz from synthesizer       Timebase on PM3400 100pS/div
IMG_4198. Synthesizer     

Mr. Leo Esaki got the Nobel prize in physics in 1973 for the invention of the TD.
Thanks
          /Lars G



 

[eurofox]

Gentlemen,

First of all, let me thank you all "citizen of the world" for the nice and friendly answers I got on my littel query!
It really helped me!

The reason for my question is like this;
I have repaired some old Philips PM3400 sampling oscilloscopes. The scopes were manufactored during 1960...1980 in a Philips factory (PIE) in Sweden and I worked there.

A usual fault is; no sweep. Just a bright spot on the CRT. The reason to this is often in the trigger-timebase circuit.
The trig/tb board is equipped with 3 tunnel diodes (TD). TD253A and TD253B for the trig and 1N3718 for the timebas. All TD´s are made by GE.
A TD is nowadays a rare and very expensive component. TD253B can be found at americanmicrosemiconductor for US $177 each. Shipping abroad $50.
Plus Swedish VAT 25% on both item and shipping. I bought a few and destroyd(!) some....

I found on ebay, Russian military surplus TD. One model, 1I308D, seems to have the same data as the TD253B i.e. my 3400 works fine with the
1I308D.
An important parameter is the TD´s switching-time. Acc. to spec. the TD253B has 70pS. I have no information for the Russian type. However, the switching time
can be calculated. The TD253B seems to give less noise that the 1I308D.

My intention is to measure the TD´s switching-time with the Tek. gear.

Imagies attachwed are;
IMG_4409. Pulse risetime 200pS.                    Timebase on PM3400 100pS/div
IMG_4408. Pulse risetime 200pS.                    Timebase on PM3400 100pS/div
IMG_4234  Sinus 3,9GHz from synthesizer       Timebase on PM3400 100pS/div
IMG_4198. Synthesizer     

Mr. Leo Esaki got the Nobel prize in physics in 1973 for the invention of the TD.
Thanks
          /Lars G



 

Hi Lars,

Interesting info 

I have a TDS820 in very good technical and cosmetic condition and a DS800E (USB 11 GHz sampling scope)

eurofox