Teardown & Repair of a Matsusada RE-600-1.6 600V 1.6A Power Supply

[free_electron]

get a bottle of MEK. MEthyl-Ethylene-Ketone
throw the module in it. and let it sit for a few days. the potting compoound will dissolve.
no harm will be done to the electronics

possibly the potting is due to the high voltage

[nidlaX]

Hi Shahriar,

Why not contact Matsusada directly?  I've found most manufacturers to be very helpful in situations like this.

I found this on their webpage http://www.matsusada.com/contact/ask/index.shtml.

Ozwolf

I did. They said they can sell me a new supply and that's it.

Well that sends a clear message to potential buyers of their gear.

Yeah, something about how they don't want operators to mess around inside a high voltage power supply.

[AF6LJ]

Hi Shahriar,

Why not contact Matsusada directly?  I've found most manufacturers to be very helpful in situations like this.

I found this on their webpage http://www.matsusada.com/contact/ask/index.shtml.

Ozwolf

I did. They said they can sell me a new supply and that's it.

Well that sends a clear message to potential buyers of their gear.

Yeah, something about how they don't want operators to mess around inside a high voltage power supply.

There are quite a number of us who are qualified to work on such equipment.
I don't see the problem.

[nidlaX]

Hi Shahriar,

Why not contact Matsusada directly?  I've found most manufacturers to be very helpful in situations like this.

I found this on their webpage http://www.matsusada.com/contact/ask/index.shtml.

Ozwolf

I did. They said they can sell me a new supply and that's it.

Well that sends a clear message to potential buyers of their gear.

Yeah, something about how they don't want operators to mess around inside a high voltage power supply.

There are quite a number of us who are qualified to work on such equipment.
I don't see the problem.

And how are they supposed to know that? Is it worth the potential liability issues?

-Sent from the country where we sue fast food restaurants for selling *hot* coffee

[Hugoneus]

Yeah, something about how they don't want operators to mess around inside a high voltage power supply.

This is not true. All the high-voltage points in the power supply are already exposed. Potting does not protect anything.

The only reason for rubbing off part numbers or putting epoxy on parts in this case is to protect the power supply design and to keep it secret.

[dom0]

Well there are certainly many big secrets in PSU design. 

The newer x-ray machines don't use film, they're digital. I have a set of x-ray images of my lower back on CDROM stored in some proprietary format that my PC can't read.

Try a DICOM viewer.

[nidlaX]

Yeah, something about how they don't want operators to mess around inside a high voltage power supply.

This is not true. All the high-voltage points in the power supply are already exposed. Potting does not protect anything.

The only reason for rubbing off part numbers or putting epoxy on parts in this case is to protect the power supply design and to keep it secret.

I agree, I was referring to their unwillingness to provide you with a schematic or repair manual.

[AF6LJ]

Hi Shahriar,

Why not contact Matsusada directly?  I've found most manufacturers to be very helpful in situations like this.

I found this on their webpage http://www.matsusada.com/contact/ask/index.shtml.

Ozwolf

I did. They said they can sell me a new supply and that's it.

Well that sends a clear message to potential buyers of their gear.

Yeah, something about how they don't want operators to mess around inside a high voltage power supply.

There are quite a number of us who are qualified to work on such equipment.
I don't see the problem.

And how are they supposed to know that? Is it worth the potential liability issues?

-Sent from the country where we sue fast food restaurants for selling *hot* coffee

I don't see how liability figures into this, properly trained people should have access to the repair documentation. But as we can see they have insecurity issues since they insist on potting circuits that don't require potting and they rub part numbers off parts. I would opt for believing the design is crap and they are saving face through obscurity.

I don't buy into the legal liability argument one bit.

[nidlaX]

I don't see how liability figures into this, properly trained people should have access to the repair documentation. But as we can see they have insecurity issues since they insist on potting circuits that don't require potting and they rub part numbers off parts. I would opt for believing the design is crap and they are saving face through obscurity.

I don't buy into the legal liability argument one bit.

I agree that obfuscation is definitely part of the equation, especially as demonstrated in Shahriar's teardown. However, in the end they are selling the device to operators, not trained service technicians under contract / employment. Every test equipment manufacturer I can think of advises end users as much as possible to not disassemble the equipment and leave servicing up to trained repair personnel. I doubt those cautionary statements are made solely as a matter of politeness. Liability potentially arises if they provide you with the information you need to get yourself into trouble. As sad as that may sound, that is the current legal climate.

How much do they gain and how much do they risk by providing a 2nd hand end user with their documentation? Where do the incentives lie? When companies are willing to provide customers with detailed service manuals and schematics, I think they are going out of their way to do their customers a (much appreciated) favor.

[AF6LJ]

I don't see how liability figures into this, properly trained people should have access to the repair documentation. But as we can see they have insecurity issues since they insist on potting circuits that don't require potting and they rub part numbers off parts. I would opt for believing the design is crap and they are saving face through obscurity.

I don't buy into the legal liability argument one bit.

I agree that obfuscation is definitely part of the equation, especially as demonstrated in Shahriar's teardown. However, in the end they are selling the device to operators, not trained service technicians under contract / employment. Every test equipment manufacturer I can think of advises end users as much as possible to not disassemble the equipment and leave servicing up to trained repair personnel. I doubt those cautionary statements are made solely as a matter of politeness. Liability potentially arises if they provide you with the information you need to get yourself into trouble. As sad as that may sound, that is the current legal climate.

How much do they gain and how much do they risk by providing a 2nd hand end user with their documentation? Where do the incentives lie? When companies are willing to provide customers with detailed service manuals and schematics, I think they are going out of their way to do their customers a (much appreciated) favor.

I see your point regarding supplying service information to a second hand owner.

Then again if I owned a company and bought one of those, it quits and my Maintenance / Cal Lab cannot get service information to fix it, I am going to raise unholy Hell. That power supply could be part of an automatic test set up and without it my production line may be at half output.

[nidlaX]

Then again if I owned a company and bought one of those, it quits and my Maintenance / Cal Lab cannot get service information to fix it, I am going to raise unholy Hell. That power supply could be part of an automatic test set up and without it my production line may be at half output.

Yeah, I bet they would treat you a little differently if you were an MSRP paying customer. That's why I'm always extremely grateful when I call up a company and they take their time to answer my questions or help me out even though I'm trying to find information for second hand and/or obsolete products.

[AF6LJ]

Indeed.

[ozwolf]

Hi Shahriar,

Why not contact Matsusada directly?  I've found most manufacturers to be very helpful in situations like this.

I found this on their webpage http://www.matsusada.com/contact/ask/index.shtml.

Ozwolf

I did. They said they can sell me a new supply and that's it.

Hmmm, that's very disappointing and not the response I would expect.

They missed a great marketing opportunity.

Ozwolf

[bitwelder]

A quick google search found a 'RE series Instruction manual'. In the first pages, after the warranty terms there is the following note:
"Schematics of products shall not be submitted to users."
You can have other info at additional charge (!) but schematics, no no.



 

[1kostik1976]

hello.
as the success of repair?
what optocouplers are used in the module pc-260a-ul?
I have a picture of the module pc-260-ul on Monday will try to lay out.

[1kostik1976]

better not get scanned. to be seen all the photo well.