TDS754D Fail +++ Processor.

[charlyd]

hello i though it is long time ago let open a new topic. and looking to think from an other view.

i replaced my NVRAM ( ds1250Y-100 )  i am not sure if the one i bought is not a china product. i got the first one and that was broken...maybe they were to cheap, but were can i find reliable NVRAMs?
ok i replaced the timekeeper (ds1286) and that should also mean the the unit kept its clock/date ...doesn t it?  after a while we are back in 1992 or something...bit strange.

then my board is a 679-4349-00 ( cpu board ) it would be an easy test to swap it with an other (working) 679-4349-00 board. someone a board for sale?

when i look closer into the errorlog i see this:
----------------------------------------------
optDiagPM110Reg ................ pass
optDiagFloppyCacheMem .......... pass
optDiagFloppyControllerIO ......0x5fffe80 (tRootTask): libError 358, lib EXTCAL,
 id=358, msg=more bytes requested than available
pass
optDiagFloppyDrive ............. pass
optRS232DuartIO ................ UNTESTED
-------------------------------------------------
The floppy controller is on the same board....   can there be a problem on the data bus ?

from what i thought my problem is this message: 
FATAL: 250 nv storage too small, more bytes requested
 than available
WED JAN 01 00:44:25 1992  ERROR: diagnostic test failure, nvLibrariansDiag, Libs
 with crcc failures: ,  ExtConst

[Jwalling]

Run an SPC and take a picture of the result.

[charlyd]

ok here is what it looks like.... my spc and errorlog noww

Ok i found them  also included the errorlog.

I found out that  the DS1486 is copied and verified by the programmer succesfull….

But i also tried an image from a TDS724D   that  flashed succesfull in te DS1250y   
All my TDS754D Nvram images i received from others fail to flash …in those 2 DS1250Y chips
I ordered the two chips on the internet ( alibaba …chinese stuff??  But DALLAS chips maybe ok i would think)

And this is what i got.

Back to my original chip. That is untouched and placed on a 32pin DIL. And now in the Scope together with the new DS1486  it gives this errorlog  see attachment.

[Jwalling]

Your cal ram on the ACQ board is corrupted or is incompatible with the firmware on the scope. It is stored on two 24C02 memory devices located on the solder side of the ACQ board.

Some questions:
1. Did you update the firmware on the scope?
2. Did you do any board swapping or is the CPU and ACQ boards original to the scope?
3. Did you buy this scope in this condition, or did the problem develop later?
4. What is the firmware revision of the scope shown at boot up?

Nevermind the DS1250Y chip, nothing is important there. The DS1486 holds TOD, options, and SPC, but is also not important at this time.

[charlyd]

Hello Jay, ok  for me not to mess things up....the error in my errorlog  is  the corruption you talk about ? 

or do you mean the corruption  on the ACQ board is causing my calibration not to pass.  but stays in initialize...

1. Did you update the firmware on the scope?   i swopped some TDS754D NVram files arround in my 2 newly NVram.
for example this one:  ( my original NVram i still have kept save
https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=33d543d7cfaf9a6a&id=33D543D7CFAF9A6A%21259089&authkey=!AFnug2tAklMZLoU

2. Did you do any board swapping or is the CPU and ACQ boards original to the scope? i have not other boards yet maybe in a short while a cpu board.
3. Did you buy this scope in this condition, or did the problem develop later? i bought it in this condition...
4. What is the firmware revision of the scope shown at boot up? my firmware reversion is FV 7.4e very new... and the series is B041.

[Jwalling]

What is the part # on the ACQ board? There should be a sticker with the #.
It should be 671–4162–01 for serial prefix B040XXX

[charlyd]

here are the specs from this scope and that s how i bought it.

CPU /Dram board  679-4349-00
ACQ           board  679-4771-02  2M possible
Serie B041XXX   <->  Firmware 7.4e

Option installed :  Sticker A1 2C 1R   (  19mount& EU powercord) and 2C
Options set by seller: 13 1F 2C 2F   see front 
Options as they are now. 2C 2F

[Jwalling]

here are the specs from this scope and that s how i bought it.

CPU /Dram board  679-4349-00
ACQ           board  679-4771-02  2M possible
Firmware 7.4e

Option installed :  Sticker A1 2C 1R   (  19mount& EU powercord) and 2C
Options set by seller: 13 1F 2C 2F   see front 

Serie B041XXX

Sorry, I got confused for a moment and thought it was a 784D. OK, so your part # is correct anyway.
It might be that the 24C02 chips (U1052 and or U1055) on your AQC board are corrupted, that could cause the other calibration constants to be "initialized"

But let's try this first. Here's a DS1486 binary to try.

Edit: It will cause an error since 4C is an option that requires calibration, I believe.

[Jwalling]

Oh - just found this one that might be better. I didn't record the firmware revision, but since it's serial prefix B040XXX it's probably 7.1.1e

[charlyd]

i get error over error.... i can blank it 
When i write my file to it the flash is succesfull

and the both 784D files gives an error

attached my file. 

[Jwalling]

i get error over error.... i can blank it  that is ok but writing ..pfffffff
do the die  easily ?

shall i take my original one

Sure, but back it up and verify the backup against the chip. Use the binary without option 4C.

[charlyd]

is there a difference in the files.... or is it a DS1486  failure?  i bought those chips on internet Asia for my feeling chinese clones    but they say DALLAS and look the same.  Are there loosy chips arround or is that not possible..  my wellon-vp390 is reporting error with these images...

mine is 128kb

these from the screenshot i found on the website ko4bb

non of the TDS784D images is 128kb??

can it be that like my firmware version 7.4e ( really new) the files are bigger then normal and that i need a DS1650Y nvram? or... i mean nvram storage too small ??   files are also bigger..as you can see.

[charlyd]

even more strange  when i try to flash this file in the DS1486 it works...flash succesfull.

now i don t understand anymore.. there must for sure be a difference in the files.

[Jwalling]

is there a difference in the files.... or is it a DS1486  failure?  i bought those chips on internet Asia for my feeling chinese clones    but they say DALLAS and look the same.  Are there loosy chips arround or is that not possible..  my wellon-vp390 is reporting error with these images...

mine is 128kb

these from the screenshot i found on the website ko4bb

non of the TDS784 images is 128kb??

can it be that like my firmware version 7.4e ( really new) the files are bigger then normal and that i need a DS1650Y nvram? or... i mean nvram storage too small ??   files are also bigger..as you can see.

The ones on K04BB are the firmware and BOOT roms! Nothing to do with the DS1486...

[Jwalling]

even more strange  when i try to flash this file in the DS1486 it works...flash succesfull.

now i don t understand anymore.. there must for sure be a difference in the files.

Yeah, because it's from a DS1486.
Put the file I posted in the zip file "TDS784D DS1486 FW v 13 1F 2F B040144.zip" Into your DS1486, then try it in the scope.
Do the "initialized" constants change to PASS?

[charlyd]

it errors in the programmer so no go...very strange...and am i aloud to put in a bin from a different scope.

the bin's inside the chips are checked already and are correct.  i will try a different DS1486 image from  TDS754D as soon as i have one.

Anyone who can help me with out with an image set from a TDS754D please pm me.  from both the Timekeeper and Nvram.

you were talking about corruption in the memory chips on the Acq board. what can i do about that? or was that only on the 784D if yes isn t that the same scope with only some components adjusted to narrow the bandwith.

and if the boards are the same what can i do?

[Jwalling]

it errors in the programmer so no go...very strange...and am i aloud to put in a bin from a different scope.

the bin's inside the chips are checked already and are correct.  i will try a different DS1486 image from  TDS754D as soon as i have one.

Anyone who can help me with out with an image set from a TDS754D please pm me.  from both the Timekeeper and Nvram.

you were talking about corruption in the memory chips on the Acq board. what can i do about that? or was that only on the 784D if yes isn t that the same scope with only some components adjusted to narrow the bandwith.

and if the boards are the same what can i do?

Try it in the scope anyway. What is the result?

Also, try this. Program the DS1486 with the bin file i suggested, then read it back and save to another filename and compare the two files. How many bytes are different, and at what addresses?
Syntax from a Windows DOS command:
FC/B FILE1.BIN FILE2.BIN

Do this before we talk about the possibility of corruption of the 24C02 chips.

[charlyd]

hello Jay i did some testing, here are the result and some pictures.
flashed the B040144  in the DS1486  ( have to tell you that my floppy is out/and my RS232 is out  so 13 ,1F not advertised.)

i loaded the originalB040144.bin in the programmer and flashed the chip and then did a read and save to EXPORT.BIN.
...then...  compared the content.  ( 3 lines is the result,tried both VP390 and dos FC)

putted the chip in the scope and booted up... (all pictures taken are with this chip B040144 image date 1 nov 2013 )
took the chip out and an other compare ( that is the longer listing..)

[Jwalling]

Once you boot the scope, the Dallas chip contents will change.
The three bytes that are different is just some TOD stuff, so unimportant.

Now I'm certain that one or both of the 24C02 chips on the ACQ board are defective or corrupted.
Do you have the equipment to do a full calibration?
See here for more info: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/conversion-of-500mhz-tds744a-to-1ghz-tds784a/

[charlyd]

hello yes i have equipment to do a full calibration?

where on the ACQ board are those 24C02  located. and how to find out which one?

can t  i do an inplace reading with my vp-390?

[Jwalling]

hello yes i equipment to do a full calibration?

Huh?

where on the ACQ board are those 24C02  located. and how to find out which one?

I already told you the ref. designations. They are on the solder side. I don't know how to tell which one is bad.

can t  i do an inplace reading with my vp-390?

Give it a try, I don't know.
Here's a set from a working scope, if you want to try to program yours (SAVE yours off FIRST!!!) to see if the problem goes away. Obviously they won't have the correct cal for your scope, though.

EDIT: I wonder if it's possible to program them through the console port?

[charlyd]

This is gonna take some days before i am back on the forum ...i  need to order an IC-socket Clip to read inplace  and  order 2 x 24C02 ( good to have in stock).

These are Eeproms and can be taken out for the programmer.

[Jwalling]

This is gonna tak i while before i am back... need IC-socket Clip to read inplace  and  order 2 x 24C02 ( good to have in stock).
when i desolder them from the board they are flushed i suspect?

what is the exact status of those chip when working with them.

I don't understand what you're asking.

[charlyd]

ok i found them on the board..


i just bought new onces,  when they arrive i read mine from in the board to a file,  then take mine out of the board and read mine again to a other file  and compare them.

after that write the newly bought onces and keep my original in safe place.

i think that is the best option don t you think.  i have the IC sop8 socket to read/write already so i have to wait until 24C02 arrive...

[charlyd]

Ok i have got some news.  I got a new (test) CPU/DRAM board for in my TDS754D ( same nummer on board 679-4349-00 ) from a TDS784D ( which has not diag errors)   i swapped the board and the problem is still there also with the different board... so it is NOT the CPU board but it must be the ACQ board / Calibration.  for me the 24C02 chips are very suspisious now. which stores the cals.