Keysight/Agilent DSO-X 3000 ANNOYING cursor bug

[Gregory]

My DSO-X3000 has an annoying bug that force the cursors ON when doing an automatic measure.
I can`t understand this stupid decision. I needed to show my frustration, sorry 

A friend of mine has a Touch version and it do not have this bug.

[Davi_Volcan]

I have this issue on two scopes of the same model... Definitely annoying! 
Me --> 

[TorinoFermic]

My 54622A also does it when activating Quick Measurement on the panel as well.

[Gregory]

My 54622A also does it when activating Quick Measurement on the panel as well.

So this is an old software decision.
Extremely annoying and not useful.

I`m still trying to disable but it really seems to not be possible.

[Bud]

Then it is a feature, not a bug.

[Davi_Volcan]

A little follow up video...
 

[2N3055]

People should really start reading User Manuals...

[Gregory]

People should really start reading User Manuals...

From the manual

Cursors are turned on to show the portion of the waveform being measured for the
most recently selected measurement (bottom-most on the right-side
measurement area).

So, this BUG, that BUGs the user, get the user CRAZY when using the equipment, is really a software decision.

[2N3055]

People should really start reading User Manuals...

From the manual

Cursors are turned on to show the portion of the waveform being measured for the
most recently selected measurement (bottom-most on the right-side
measurement area).

So, this BUG, that BUGs the user, get the user CRAZY when using the equipment, is really a software decision.

Yes and you should be grateful that you have it.

Try measuring rise time of a signal with non monotonic edge, and then tell us how would you know which part of edge did algorithm chose to do measurement..
There are many measurements that you want to make sure what exactly scope is measuring, which part of the signal. It is a visual verification that you are measuring the right thing.
I wouldn't buy a scope without it...

I agree that shutting cursors off shouldn't hide measurements. That is crazy..
Like you said, it doesn't do that on 3000T.

Did you try putting cursors in manual mode and the shutting them off ?

[Gregory]

Try measuring rise time of a signal with non monotonic edge, and then tell us how would you know which part of edge did algorithm chose to do measurement..
There are many measurements that you want to make sure what exactly scope is measuring, which part of the signal. It is a visual verification that you are measuring the right thing.
I wouldn't buy a scope without it...

Yep.. I understand that.

Did you try putting cursors in manual mode and the shutting them off ?

Does not work.
When entering the cursor menu, it replaces the measure stack with cursors info. When pressing cursor again to disable, it clean the panel and the measures get turned off.

If I press Meas again to take the measures back on, the automatic cursors appear again 

This thing aways on is really more annoying than usefull..

[2N3055]

Try measuring rise time of a signal with non monotonic edge, and then tell us how would you know which part of edge did algorithm chose to do measurement..
There are many measurements that you want to make sure what exactly scope is measuring, which part of the signal. It is a visual verification that you are measuring the right thing.
I wouldn't buy a scope without it...

Yep.. I understand that.

Did you try putting cursors in manual mode and the shutting them off ?

Does not work.
When entering the cursor menu, it replaces the measure stack with cursors info. When pressing cursor again to disable, it clean the panel and the measures get turned off.

If I press Meas again to take the measures back on, the automatic cursors appear again 

This thing aways on is really more annoying than usefull..

But did you try to put cursors in Manual mode?
Go into Cursors menu, set manual mode and then shut them off.
And then press Measure again.

On 3000T it will also automatically re-enable measurements cursors if cursors are off, and you add new measurement.

[Gregory]

Yep

[Keysight DanielBogdanoff]

Can confirm this is intentional (love it or hate it). The goal is to be as clear as possible about what specifically is being measured.

[HighVoltage]

I also found this annoying for years.

But on my Keysight 6000 X series scope the cursor can be turned off and the measurements stay ON.

[Gregory]

Can confirm this is intentional (love it or hate it). The goal is to be as clear as possible about what specifically is being measured.

What !?

Why I can`t disable it ? Why touch version can ?
I have the scope for 9 year now and I realized just recently how annoying it is.

I really think it`s a bug in the 3000 firmware. As others said, they can disable it !! 

[2N3055]

I also found this annoying for years.

But on my Keysight 6000 X series scope the cursor can be turned off and the measurements stay ON.

On 3000T also, but on 3000A you can't..

[rodpp]

Can confirm this is intentional (love it or hate it). The goal is to be as clear as possible about what specifically is being measured.

Intentional??? The user can not disable it because it must be as clear as possible, but only for DSOX3000A users and not for DSOX3000T users?

Give me a break...

[Gregory]

Obviously it`s not intentional!

I can`t disable cursor in the Agilent 3000.
The MDO4000 is slow as hell.

Where we gonna stop ?? I`m already starting to clean my old Tek 2465A

[Bud]

You are talking to a Keysight engineer from their scope division. If he says it was intentional you better believe him.

[Gregory]

Can confirm this is intentional (love it or hate it). The goal is to be as clear as possible about what specifically is being measured.

Daniel,

Is there a engineering or usability reason to allow the user of the Touch scope to disable the cursor ?

How could I send this feature/bug suggestion/improvement to keysight in a formal way ?

[2N3055]

While I understand that you should be able to disable it if you don't want it, you are blowing it WAY out of proportion...
I had to go check on my 3000T if I can shut it off, I always keep it on.
You, by your own testament, had the scope for 7 years, and just recently realized you can't shut it off..
So, obviously it is not a real problem, if it took you 7 years to realize it's there..

As I said, I also think that you should have a way of disabling it, just because you want control of it.
But realistically, you are almost hysterical to make problem where there isn't one.  Get a grip.

Daniel is a very nice gentleman that helped many members here, with real problems (like brokens scopes, or vendors refusing warranty.). He deserves a polite tone, he earned it, many times.

For this minor niggle that bothers so very little people, you should very politely ask, and if it is possible, Keysight sometimes makes some things at user requests. Or not, if they have to release whole new firmware just because of this minor discomfort of very few... 

Please don't take this as an attack at you. It is not. You are a new member (40 posts) so you deserve to be helped to acclimate to forum, it's way and etiquette.. And I'm kinda direct and don't like dancing around the bush. I just tell it straight.
So, welcome here, please go slow with drama until you get a grip what is and what isn't appropriate and I hope you like it here..
Regards

[rodpp]

While I understand that you should be able to disable it if you don't want it, you are blowing it WAY out of proportion...
I had to go check on my 3000T if I can shut it off, I always keep it on.
You, by your own testament, had the scope for 7 years, and just recently realized you can't shut it off..
So, obviously it is not a real problem, if it took you 7 years to realize it's there..

As I said, I also think that you should have a way of disabling it, just because you want control of it.
But realistically, you are almost hysterical to make problem where there isn't one.  Get a grip.

Daniel is a very nice gentleman that helped many members here, with real problems (like brokens scopes, or vendors refusing warranty.). He deserves a polite tone, he earned it, many times.

For this minor niggle that bothers so very little people, you should very politely ask, and if it is possible, Keysight sometimes makes some things at user requests. Or not, if they have to release whole new firmware just because of this minor discomfort of very few... 

Please don't take this as an attack at you. It is not. You are a new member (40 posts) so you deserve to be helped to acclimate to forum, it's way and etiquette.. And I'm kinda direct and don't like dancing around the bush. I just tell it straight.
So, welcome here, please go slow with drama until you get a grip what is and what isn't appropriate and I hope you like it here..
Regards

In my opinion he is not "almost hysterical to make problem where there isn't one" nor "drama" being made. It may be no problem for you and many others, but it can be annoying for some. I don't know where you found that problem bother "very little people", "very few...", maybe your affirmation is because it doesn't bothers you, or that you have not seen it mentioned before. And something annoying in your daily work tool is disgusting. To me yes, it is a problem. And as pointed above, other models allow turn it off.

I agree that Daniel is a nice gentleman, but we can disagree with him. We are in a forum with many different user experiences, opinions, preferences, and so on. No one here are disrespectful with him, that yes would be unacceptable. I, for one, do not buy his answer saying that it is a feature (intentional) when in another Keysight series it is allowed to disable it.

Another point is that if the OP is a new member or not, it has no significance at all, in fact the OP is a older member here (since March 2013).

As pointed before in other threads, it seems that some brands can not be questioned. Bugs becomes features...

[2N3055]

In my opinion he is not "almost hysterical to make problem where there isn't one" nor "drama" being made. It may be no problem for you and many others, but it can be annoying for some. I don't know where you found that problem bother "very little people", "very few...", maybe your affirmation is because it doesn't bothers you, or that you have not seen it mentioned before. And something annoying in your daily work tool is disgusting. To me yes, it is a problem. And as pointed above, other models allow turn it off.

I agree that Daniel is a nice gentleman, but we can disagree with him. We are in a forum with many different user experiences, opinions, preferences, and so on. No one here are disrespectful with him, that yes would be unacceptable. I, for one, do not buy his answer saying that it is a feature (intentional) when in another Keysight series it is allowed to disable it.

Another point is that if the OP is a new member or not, it has no significance at all, in fact the OP is a older member here (since March 2013).

As pointed before in other threads, it seems that some brands can not be questioned. Bugs becomes features...

Hehe, you're barking up the wrong tree..
I don't play preferences.. It's mine hard earned money I buy this stuff with. I take no crap from anybody, ESPECIALLY Keysight or other A brands, because i expect perfection from them, for the kind of money they charge.

And believe it or not, in mass produced product, many outnumbers few. Development costs real money, and is put towards real capability, not some details only few think are problems. If Keysight got several thousands complaints about this it would be changed many years ago.

Other models are actually based on completely different code base (3000T/4000/6000 share platform) and it is there by code modularization because of touch screen interface. 3000T still automatically enables cursors when you add measurements, and by default cursors are there so standard behaviour is the same.

And I disagree with Daniel. I participated in topics about options updates and bugs in Keysight scopes. I'm sure Keysight wasn't glad about what I proposed there and what I think what they should do.  But make sure that you know the difference between Daniel, the person, and Keysight, company he works for..

And about this particular thing, yes I don't think it's a problem.
By OP own statement "I have the scope for 9 year now and I realized just recently how annoying it is."
... really... It is really hard to take that statement seriously, really....

And op has 40 something posts.. Makes him a person that is not active here, new or not. I don't make background checks on members, so between low post count and posts that are a bit off in etiquette here, I presumed he was new. I was wrong, thank you for setting me straight. I'm not sure how is that relevant though and that it makes any difference to the topic.

You cannot decide that some manufacturer's design decision is bug because you say so.
I would like that my scope had more memory. Surely it is a bug, I demand they fix it.. It doesn't work that way.