So... I bought a Hantek DSO2C10 as my first oscilloscope...

[MarkS]

It was the best that I could afford. Now I'm finding out that it is not just cheap, but bad cheap. I cannot afford anything better, so I'm stuck with it. What tips and tricks can I use to make it at least somewhat usable? I'm mostly sticking to retro computer stuff as well as simple hobby projects with microcontrollers and 74 series logic. Nothing too extreme. I would be surprised if I'll ever need to measure a signal over 20 MHz.

Am I seriously screwed?

[RoGeorge]

Looks like a nice oscilloscope for the money. 

Would be enough for vintage computers, TTL and microcontrollers.  Not sure what tips and tricks are you looking for.  First tip is to read the user manual, side by side with the instrument, to get used with the oscilloscope's capabilities.

What are your doubts about it?

[MarkS]

What are your doubts about it?

Pretty much what I've read on this thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/best-brand-name-for-an-oscilloscope/ Truth is, this is my first oscilloscope and I wouldn't know if what it's showing me is valid or not.

[RoGeorge]

Don't worry too much about that.  Go ahead and start using it.  Especially because it's your first oscilloscope, read the manual while practicing with the instrument.  Read and try all its functions, even if you think you'll not need some of them. 

Hantek is on the market for a while, I don't think they lie in the specs, so I bet the oscilloscope will show the signals correctly (in the range stated in its specs, of course).  Ask for whatever you'll find unclear, or for whatever you think might not work as expected, or that might seem different than as explain in the manual.  Then, start using the oscilloscope with your projects.

[MarkS]

Thank you! I appreciate the advice. It was pretty upsetting finding that thread last night. I would love a better scope. Heck, I'd love a GHz rated $50,000 scope! Who wouldn't? But this is the best I can do.

[gf]

What are your doubts about it?

Pretty much what I've read on this thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/best-brand-name-for-an-oscilloscope/ Truth is, this is my first oscilloscope and I wouldn't know if what it's showing me is valid or not.

Yes, Hantek has a bad reputation for poor quality and buggy firmware, but that does not mean that their scopes are completely useless. They still do display waveforms. And if a Hantek scope is specified 1GSa/s, then it has 1GSa/s (the same does not apply to some other low-cost brands whose specs lie to your face).

In the mentioned thread I cannot see, that any single specific problem/defect/shortcoming of the DSO2C10 was mentioned, but only general bashing of the brand. Keep in mind that not all issues are generally show stoppers. Some are just inconvenient. Others can be worked around. And for very severe issues, they hopefully still provide a correction / firmware update.

I would be surprised if I'll ever need to measure a signal over 20 MHz.

I would not be surprised. If you look at square wave signals with steep edges, then you can easily exceed 20MHz.

[ataradov]

Don't worry and overthink it. It is a good scope for the price. If you actually run into the limitations, you will at least have a hands on experience and know exactly what to look for in the next scope. In practice for hobby stuff it is plenty.

[MarkS]

I would not be surprised. If you look at square wave signals with steep edges, then you can easily exceed 20MHz.

This is something I only learned a few months ago and I'm still trying to wrap my head around. While it makes sense, it is completely counterintuitive.

[eloso]

Personally I think you have acquired a very useful piece of test kit. I would be cautious of reading too much into what is expressed through this forum. There are a large variety of folk contributing their thoughts and experience and many of them are interested in disecting every little bit of minutae about test equipment.  I think the forum is great for having this but I do think it can distort reality a little.  I am pretty sure that some contributors (not all, clearly) talk about real high end specifications and fret about performance that they just don't use or need in their own work. Those that do won't buy an entry level scope.

Years ago a fairly standard piece of lab test gear would be a 20Mhz cathode ray tube oscilloscope. They didn't do a lot, but what they did do was very useful and still is for some applications. By hobby standards they were generally quite expensive.

Your new scope can do as well as most of these and sooooo much more.  You can use it to "freeze time". Storage scopes were incredibly expensive once and your scope can match them. 

It will certainly educate you about many oscilloscope concepts - coupling, probe use, memory, acquisition, maths functions,  triggers (of which you have the choice of many).

As for its utility as a piece of lab equipment. Well fundamentals don't change, and just as a good old CRO was really useful back in its day, so this Hantek is useful - today - in fact much more so.

Are you designing high end boards that must meet a sophisticated high end specification ? I think you said not. Well to me, even if the scope has a few failings its still going to show you waveforms and signals that will help you understand circuits and repair faults. You could have waited until you could pay three times this money for a better scope.  But I happen to think that maybe that money might be well spent on components , building things, debugging things, learning, learning some more and then at some point you may decide on an upgrade. Guess what ? Just as these days you get a fab scope even for a small amount of cash compared to 30 years ago, in a few years time you'll get an even better scope for your money in real terms. They get better, better and better.

Enjoy your purchase - it was a good decision.

Cheers

Eloso

[GraemeG]

I have the same scope Mark and find it very useful and usable for the sort of hobby work i do. As eloso just said, I use to have a simple 2 channel 20MHz CRO and the Hantek is so very far beyond that! I would suggest you make sure you get the latest firmware and periodically check for new releases.

There is also a long thread here that might be useful but don't get distracted by the brand bashing and "it doesn't do this properly", focus on learning how to get the most out of it. It is a very capably scope for a hobbyist.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-hantek-dso2x1x-models/1450/

[MarkS]

...snip...

...snip...

Thank you, both of you! That was very encourgaging!

[pcprogrammer]

Yes don't get to carried away with the bashing on the Hantek. But be aware of the problems it has. I myself have not experienced the lockup some mentioned when turning the rotary encoders to fast, but that might be because I don't change settings that quickly.

The thread you mentioned was for someone wanting to know which good scope brand he could afford. Unfortunately for Hantek they fall in the bottom category with this scope.

On the forum what you see is mainly posts from people that have problems with the scope. No way to tell how many people have it and never run into a problem. Just use your scope for your tasks at hand and when you run into problems with it look up the threads about the scope and see if there is a solution for the problem, and if not ask if there is some solution. That is what the forum is about. Lots of capable members that are willing to help, but we also do bash a bit on the crap we find.

Hantek is one of the better ones in the low end market, but with the DSO2X1X series they failed a bit. The specifications are correct though and the hardware is not bad. The problem is that when they fix a bug they mess up something else. And there is some issue about which FPGA configuration can be used. Just check the thread GraemeG mentioned.

Your DSO2C10 might even have the components installed to become a DSO2D15. This gives you higher bandwidth and a function generator for the same price. You can read about this in the Hantek threads.

Have fun with your purchase and don't worry to much.

[u666sa]

Now I'm finding out that it is not just cheap, but bad cheap.

For a few dollars more... I haven't bought a scope yet, been fixing notebooks and cell phones without scope since 2014ish. I need one. It's one the long over due things. I've been watching videos recently, in fact no sleep until well past 3 am this last few days. And DSO2C10 is one of the considerations. A few points that I learned from watching youtube videos.

A) Most of the bugs are due to chips getting hot, so installing heat sinks onto those chips solves most of the problems. Size is 28 by 28 mm and height is 20 mm and you stick them on glue, not the self adhesive pad because one of the chips is lazer etched and has a dip in the middle. Also you change caps on the power supply and install some heat sinks there as well. Plus you wash the flux from mother and button boards. Here is a good video with the mods -- (just look what is being done and repeat, monkey see monkey do)



So taking care of some flux, installing anti static diods into USB port circuitry (there is unpopulated space for them), installing better caps into power supply, installing heat sinks two on main board and several in power supply takes care of freezing and some other bugs. But...

B) ...and this is the big one, its sensitivity seems to be around 170 mV. Bellow that threashold it does not see signal. So around 0.2 volts. Now I don't know much about scopes but that seems sort of low. I can see situations where having this scope won't give you extra set of eyes into things. So this is kind of the decisive factor for me.

C) Model DS02C10 and DS02C15 are the same. DS02C10 can also see 150 MHz, no mods are needed. In fact model DS02C10 is same as DS02D15, it has everything related to signal generator on its board, the later editions do. If you buy DS02C10 now, chances are good that it will come with signal generator stuff installed on board. All you need is firmware and calibration. But here is the thing, it's just a few dollars more, so you might as well get it the top notch model. On ali it's showing 16000 rubles vs 19500, that's 200 vs 250 bucks difference between bottom and top models. Of course on some kind of sale these prices will go down. So let's say bottom model cost 150 and top 200.. Anyway you spin it this is a 200 dollar oscilloscope.

For a few dollars more there are much better oscilloscopes, especially those that are more sensitive. Namely SDS1102 is just the same price, around 200 bucks. There is also SDS1104, and then there are rigols for around 350 bucks.

I think it's better to spend a little more money for a thing that will last you next 10, perhaps even 20 years.

 


300 to 400 bucks seems to be the sweet spot for the cheap one. But that's not expensive. Because I bet you have an iPhone for 800-ish and air pods for around 200 ish which you replace every 4 years or so. All things are relative and this thing is a new set of eyes and ear and nose, a new sensual organ that allows you to make money in a new more efficient way.

[Aldo22]

I know this thread is a few months old, but I don't understand this statement and it went uncontradicted:

B) ...and this is the big one, its sensitivity seems to be around 170 mV. Bellow that threashold it does not see signal. So around 0.2 volts. Now I don't know much about scopes but that seems sort of low. I can see situations where having this scope won't give you extra set of eyes into things. So this is kind of the decisive factor for me.

From my point of view, the Hantek has very good sensitivity for the price.
I get a stable triggered wave down to the RMS microvolt range.
Or did you mean something else?