Author Topic: Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus  (Read 1924028 times)

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Offline neslekkim

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Re: Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus
« Reply #2275 on: January 01, 2014, 11:13:18 pm »
It have also been christmas holiday, and the jtag dumps are just a few days old..
 

Offline AndersAnd

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Offline zombie28

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Re: Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus
« Reply #2277 on: January 02, 2014, 01:00:10 am »
Is somebody actively working on this hack for the DS2072A?

Yes, I have analysed most of the DS2KA license decoder, but still missing a few details, so stay tuned...
 

Offline cybernet

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Re: Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus
« Reply #2278 on: January 02, 2014, 01:06:39 am »
played with memory layout and lcd/keypad ..
there is some tricky memory mapping, windowing ongoing using probably the FPGA or some other glue logic to toggle address highlines for various other devices on the EBIU bus.
the keypad and the LEDs use SPORT0 - in SPI mode, 16bit payload - i can switch on/off leds now
keypad reading is done via DMA (sucks) - still not much clue here.
found the LCD routines and somewhat of a mapping, can turn backlight on/off and there is some clue on how pixels are written - anyone got the datasheet for the LCD ? ;-)
while playing with the LCD i found the boot logos etc .. (its all done in the bootldr btw) - and that also explains section#2 gel file content.
the overlapping addresses in the gel file, are okay - because some of the addtional bits toggle the memory window - thats what i will investigate next.

the goal for now is to get u-boot flashed instead of the rigol bootldr and then running a uclinux from the USB stick, or booting the rigol application LDR from flash.
@zombie28 - when u got some spare time and want to play with it, drop me a PM with your email - i will send u a tool to re-assemble GEL files, with that maybe u can force the old keys for A series in the meantime.

section #2 in the GEL file contains 16bit raw images used for the RIGOL & ultravision logo (2 logos) in bootldr.
section: #02:   CRC:52C1A46B ADDR:20000000 LEN:69472 OFS:4861550 [VALID CRC]

some stupid proggy to check concept ...

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Offline AndersAnd

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Re: Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus
« Reply #2279 on: January 02, 2014, 02:39:23 am »
anyone got the datasheet for the LCD ? ;-)
I just skipped through Dave's 39 minute teardown video to find the LCD model number:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-360-rigol-ds2000-oscilloscope-teardown/


@20:04 it says 20000938-00 on the LCD flex cable:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/eevblog/8022120602/#in/set-72157631618295437/


I tried googling 20000938-00 and got several hits for InnoLux AT070TN90

Couldn't find the datasheet at: http://www.innolux.com/pages/en/index_en.html

But I found it here:
InnoLux AT070TN90 datasheet https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/A13/A13-LCD7-TS/resources/AT070TN90.pdf

This is a 7 inch (800x480) display, but Rigol says DS2000 has a "8 inch TFT (800x480) WVGA" display. But the pinout an communication is probably identical since they have the same resolution.

http://www.rigol.com/prodserv/DS2000A/ the silkscreen says the LCD flex connector has 50 pins, and the datasheet also says 50 pins and even recommend a Hirose FH12A-50S-0.5SH connector, similar to the conector used by Rigol.

Edit: I found a 8'' InnoLux AT080TN64 with the same 20000938-00 silkscreen on the LCD flex cable: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/8-lcd-screen-highlight-the-at080tn64-car-screen-qau-1/1179092514.html






Same 50-pin connector and both use 3.3V TTL Parallel RGB interfacing.
Here's the datasheet for InnoLux AT080TN64: http://www.nilocom.com/files/AT080TN64.pdf
« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 03:50:49 am by AndersAnd »
 

Offline Mark_O

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Re: Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus
« Reply #2280 on: January 02, 2014, 05:35:20 am »
BTW, I've heard Rigol is working on new security measures for all the devices which have been hacked - so if anyone has been on the fence about purchasing one of them (and you want to be certain you can run the current versions of keygens), it might be best to act soon.

That's great news.  Perhaps they can manage to kill off their sales to hobbyists and students.  :-DD  It would be nice though if they spent that priority manpower in fixing bugs in their units, first.  Rather than letting them languish for half a year or more without being addressed.

And one thing to keep in mind about buying the current (hackable) products: they have numerous known software problems (and likely others not yet known, or less visible... such as broken/missing SCPI).  Naturally most will want to take advantage of the fixes, but it won't be surprising if there's a price to pay for that.
 

Offline marmad

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Re: Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus
« Reply #2281 on: January 02, 2014, 05:53:42 am »
That's great news.  Perhaps they can manage to kill off their sales to hobbyists and students.  It would be nice though if they spent that priority manpower in fixing bugs in their units, first.  Rather than letting them languish for half a year or more without being addressed.

This was all inevitable and predicted 6 months ago in this very thread. I'm all for free stuff, but there is just no way a company will ignore this - and you can bet you ass that Agilent is working to stop the hacks published in the other thread here too.

Quote
And one thing to keep in mind about buying the current (hackable) products: they have numerous known software problems (and likely others not yet known, or less visible... such as broken/missing SCPI).  Naturally most will want to take advantage of the fixes, but it won't be surprising if there's a price to pay for that.

Well, no, as shown by the DS2000/DS2000A, they can't stop the hacks working for owners of the current models without voiding all of the legal, paid-for options - they have to release newer/upgraded models. That was my point.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 06:52:18 am by marmad »
 

Offline Gallymimus

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Re: Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus
« Reply #2282 on: January 02, 2014, 05:53:47 am »

That's great news.  Perhaps they can manage to kill off their sales to hobbyists and students.  :-DD  It would be nice though if they spent that priority manpower in fixing bugs in their units, first.  Rather than letting them languish for half a year or more without being addressed.


Really, you think they should not worry about people stealing their products?  They should just focus on fixing bugs while their margins are being damaged?  That's great logic.  |O  Rigol is a business, they have to make some money.  If they think that working on security is going to protect their bottom line better than fixing bugs then it's OUR fault for pushing them to that by hacking their products.  :--

I'm a big fan of altering the function of hardware myself but to act like Rigol should embrace theft because it increases volume on their lowest margin sales and to justify this behavior kinda irritates me.  :palm:.  Rigol likely depends on the adders beyond base to add profit above likely thin margins.  In addition, in a low volume business they have a LOT of non-recurring engineering costs to amortize over the life of the product.

Don't get me wrong.  I read this thread every day (and have read every message in every page), and love the work, ingenuity and features that have been unlocked.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 05:57:23 am by Gallymimus »
 

Offline Neomulgus

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Re: Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus
« Reply #2283 on: January 02, 2014, 06:36:05 am »
Really, you think they should not worry about people stealing their products?
I'm a big fan of altering the function of hardware myself but to act like Rigol should embrace theft because it increases volume on their lowest margin sales and to justify this behavior kinda irritates me.  :palm:.  Rigol likely depends on the adders beyond base to add profit above likely thin margins.  In addition, in a low volume business they have a LOT of non-recurring engineering costs to amortize over the life of the product.

There are people who bought a 2072 cum 2200 over an alternative scope (or an old beater off Ebay) just because the hack tipped the balance on their buying decision. I find it hard to equate that to "theft" in this instance. They got some money at least, when the alternative was no money at all from that class of buyer.

The question for Rigol is whether those "bottom feeders" are a valuable enough resource to tolerate their antics, even if they cannibalize the professional market a bit. My bet is it's only a little lost lucre versus containerloads of scopes sold as a direct result of threads like this one. Rigol would be best to grin and bear it all the way to the bank.
 

Offline marmad

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Re: Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus
« Reply #2284 on: January 02, 2014, 06:42:18 am »
The question for Rigol is whether those "bottom feeders" are a valuable enough resource to tolerate their antics, even if they cannibalize the professional market a bit. My bet is it's only a little lost lucre versus containerloads of scopes sold as a direct result of threads like this one. Rigol would be best to grin and bear it all the way to the bank.

This argument has been going on in this forum since 2010 - when the Rigol D1052E was hacked (and Dave published a video about it). Regardless of whatever you think might be best for Rigol to do, the fact of the matter is, they fought against the hacks in 2010 - and they are fighting against the hacks now - just as many of us expected they'd do. And from Rigol's point of view, the stakes are even higher now - with the keygen working not only for DSOs - but other equipment as well.

And just as the hacks of the DS1000E series disrupted bug-fixes and FW releases (and created new bugs), so is it all likely to happen again. But, hey, that's the trade-off - for both us and Rigol.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 06:55:02 am by marmad »
 

Offline Mark_O

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Re: Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus
« Reply #2285 on: January 02, 2014, 07:59:40 am »
That's great news.  Perhaps they can manage to kill off their sales to hobbyists and students.  :-DD  It would be nice though if they spent that priority manpower in fixing bugs in their units, first.  Rather than letting them languish for half a year or more without being addressed.

Really, you think they should not worry about people stealing their products?

Hmm.  I can't see where you got that, from what I wrote?  I'd really appreciate it if you wouldn't put words in my mouth.  And I wasn't aware anyone was "stealing" their products!  :o   AFAIK, everyone here was buying their Rigol's.   :-//  Was there a "back of the truck sale" I missed out on?

Presumably you wouldn't consider upgrading the software on a Rigol stealing, since you did so on both your DS1052E and DS1074Z, right?

Quote
Rigol is a business, they have to make some money.

I'm quite sure they're making money.  Let me ask you this, since you were so incensed by my comment... if someone buys a DS2072A and never upgrades the memory capacity option, who's being robbed?  They've already paid for the additional 28 MB of memory, because it's installed in every unit, whether it's ever turned on or not.  But for "only" 40% of the cost of their entire scope, they can enable the memory that's already been paid for.   ???  Certainly seems both fair and logical to me.   ::)

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I'm a big fan of altering the function of hardware myself but...

but, but, but...

Quote
...to act like Rigol should embrace theft because it increases volume on their lowest margin sales and to justify this behavior kinda irritates me.  :palm:

Yes, I can see that.  :)  Especially when no one here has been advocating theft.

Look, as marmad has said here, more than once, Rigol isn't particularly happy about this, and has taken steps in the past to rectify it, and will take more steps in the future.  They have a perfect right to do so (i.e., to try to stop hacking).  However, my comment was simply that it's obvious they have limited manpower available.  Otherwise they'd be fixing and improving the software much more quickly than they've ever demonstrated an ability to do so, in all the years they've been in business.  And I questioned whether that's the best use of those limited resources.  IMO, it's not, but in their opinion, it is.  That's fine.

The primary (if not exclusive) impact of locking things down will be reduced sales to folks that have very limited funds to start with.  Meaning hobbyists, beginners, students, etc.  Do you really think that pro's (spending company funds) and engineering firms with $$$ resources are buying Rigol's for cheap and unlocking features w/o paying for them?  I don't.  If they need a 300 MHz scope, they buy one.  Not buy a 70 MHz-rated one, and cross their fingers it will work at 300.  That would be foolish indeed.

But the result of having a pool of hobbyists [or even pro's, with limited funds for a home lab] with access to the technology, and experience with Rigols, will mean that if they're in a position to recommend something, it's that much more likely to be something they're familiar with.  Like... a Rigol.  Or if they bring their Rigol into work one day, or to a client site, Rigol gets exposure they would not have otherwise.  And as a result, increased sales.  So in a very real sense, Rigol could consider these hobbyist sales as "seeds" being planted.  That will bear enhanced fruit later.  And as low-cost promotion and 'advertising' for their brand.

Obviously, these are not important factors to them (or they simply have failed to recognize the potential benefits), and again, that's fine.  I never said, "How dare you?" or "Curse you, Red Baron!"   Or shook my fist at the sky.  :rant:

Quote
Don't get me wrong.  I read this thread every day (and have read every message in every page), and love the work, ingenuity and features that have been unlocked.

And that you've personally benefited from.  Yes, I'll try very hard not to get you wrong.   ;)
« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 08:09:03 am by Mark_O »
 

Offline marmad

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Re: Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus
« Reply #2286 on: January 02, 2014, 08:30:45 am »
The primary (if not exclusive) impact of locking things down will be reduced sales to folks that have very limited funds to start with.  Meaning hobbyists, beginners, students, etc.  Do you really think that pro's (spending company funds) and engineering firms with $$$ resources are buying Rigol's for cheap and unlocking features w/o paying for them?  I don't.  If they need a 300 MHz scope, they buy one.  Not buy a 70 MHz-rated one, and cross their fingers it will work at 300.  That would be foolish indeed.

But the result of having a pool of hobbyists [or even pro's, with limited funds for a home lab] with access to the technology, and experience with Rigols, will mean that if they're in a position to recommend something, it's that much more likely to be something they're familiar with.  Like... a Rigol.  Or if they bring their Rigol into work one day, or to a client site, Rigol gets exposure they would not have otherwise.  And as a result, increased sales.  So in a very real sense, Rigol could consider these hobbyist sales as "seeds" being planted.  That will bear enhanced fruit later.  And as low-cost promotion and 'advertising' for their brand.

It wouldn't surprise me if a discussion similar to the one we have here happens between some people in the upper echelons at Rigol. They must consider, at least to some degree, the pros and cons of fighting the hacks. But when hacks are easy and foolproof (like keygens) and begin to get widely published - even owners that would normally buy extra options over time don't. If you spent $2800 or more for one of the DS4000s, you very well might have spent more money later on for one or more of the options - but with a online keygen available, it's not as likely. I'm afraid, from Rigol's point of view, this has gotten out of hand - spreading between the product lines - and they have to at least make an effort to fight it.
 

Offline Mark_O

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Re: Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus
« Reply #2287 on: January 02, 2014, 09:01:49 am »
It wouldn't surprise me if a discussion similar to the one we have here happens between some people in the upper echelons at Rigol. They must consider, at least to some degree, the pros and cons of fighting the hacks.

But when hacks are easy and foolproof (like keygens) and begin to get widely published - even owners that would normally buy extra options over time don't. If you spent $2800 or more for one of the DS4000s, you very well might have spent more money later on for one or more of the options - but with a online keygen available, it's not as likely.

I'm afraid, from Rigol's point of view, this has gotten out of hand - spreading between the product lines - and they have to at least make an effort to fight it.

Good points, and I have to agree with all of them. 

I knew (but hadn't given much thought to), the fact that their keygen's are now cross-product lines.  Scopes, wave gens, power supplies, spectrum analyzers...  So the impact is much larger.  Sales of Options may well be down, across the board.  And their Resellers are likely crying to them, because they love making hundreds of $$$ profit selling pieces of paper with numbers on them.  Nothing to inventory, nothing to ship.  Just rake in the cash.

And your example of the DS4000 owner (with a large initial investment), deferring purchase of some useful options until later, then not doing so because of the publicized hacks, was very apropo.  I could definitely see that happening.

So, yes, you're right.

[Sorry.  Gotta run.  Need to get that DS4014 ordered right away.   8)]
« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 09:04:19 am by Mark_O »
 

Offline sync

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Re: Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus
« Reply #2288 on: January 02, 2014, 01:27:07 pm »
That's great news.  Perhaps they can manage to kill off their sales to hobbyists and students.
And what scopes do they buy instead?
 

Offline Rigby

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Re: Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus
« Reply #2289 on: January 02, 2014, 01:56:52 pm »
Rigol can't afford to ignore the hacks, but they would be wise to view them as an opportunity rather than an attack.

Many of us purchased Rigol equipment solely or primarily because we could hack them.  As stated, once this becomes too easy, a line is crossed: even those that can afford the high-end options will stop paying for them, favoring the hacks.  That is the point where Rigol will really care, as real money starts getting lost.  (Let's assume for a moment that no hobbyist at all will ever buy a high-end scope.)

It would be very wise for us if we did not bite the hand that feeds us by making the hacks too easy to use.  There needs to be a minimum amount of skill required to accomplish the hacks.  I don't know what this skill level should be, but making web apps capable of providing valid keys by providing a serial number and a four character option code is definitely something that I would consider "biting the hand that feeds us."
 

Offline ZeroAviation

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Re: Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus
« Reply #2290 on: January 02, 2014, 04:38:27 pm »
Many of us purchased Rigol equipment solely or primarily because we could hack them. 

This.

I would much rather have bought a Agilent scope. But I went with the Rigol because I could enable the extra functions. If the hack didnt exsist, I would had saved up for a few more months for the Agilent. They win as far as customer support hands down.

Broke hobbyist like me, can't afford a Agilent $1.2k DSO with another $4k in options. But we can pull of $700~ after several months of saving.

-Matt
 

Offline hammy

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Re: Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus
« Reply #2291 on: January 02, 2014, 06:28:04 pm »
Many of us purchased Rigol equipment solely or primarily because we could hack them.

Me too. I bought a scope and a spectrum analyzer precisely because there are option hacks. And then I bought a signal generator (without the hack option) because I like their products now.

It would be very wise for us if we did not bite the hand that feeds us by making the hacks too easy to use.  There needs to be a minimum amount of skill required to accomplish the hacks.

The website with this generator is far to easy to use. Maybe Rigol can ignore some source code to compile somewhere in a ee-forum. But a website with a keygen generator for the masses? Seriously?

Tribute to cybernet and the other guys. You all do absolute awesome work!
« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 07:25:00 pm by hammy »
 

Offline cybernet

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Re: Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus
« Reply #2292 on: January 02, 2014, 07:15:43 pm »
some progress - there is another hidden key in the bootloader, that will launch arbitrary LDR files from USB sticks (without flashing anything ;-)
i've got now a partly working u-boot that can load from USB stick - and hence transfer a linux image via tftp .. booting that, is another topic, but its coming along ...

Code: [Select]
## Booting kernel from Legacy Image at 00000100 ...
   Image Name:   bf526-0.0-3.10.10
   Created:      2013-12-30  23:46:15 UTC
   Image Type:   Blackfin Linux Kernel Image (gzip compressed)
   Data Size:    1377250 Bytes = 1.3 MiB
   Load Address: 00001000
   Entry Point:  0024cac0
   Verifying Checksum ... OK
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Offline ZeroAviation

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Re: Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus
« Reply #2293 on: January 02, 2014, 07:20:41 pm »

Me too. I bought a scope and a spectrum analyzer precisely because there are option hacks. And then I bought a signal generator (without the hack option) because I like their products now.

Same here I got sucked in on the first DS1052E Hack, now 4 RIGOL products later. ( See Pic )

Rigol, stop worrying about what we do with 'upgrading' your products, and start concentrating on customer support and software bugs.

To be frank, if they close these holes, i'll spend the very small margin extra for Agilent.

On the other side, I wonder what percentage of their customer base realizes these can be 'hacked'

Back on topic.....
Cybernet - Keep up the good work mate.

-Matt

 

Offline Wall-E

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Re: Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus
« Reply #2294 on: January 02, 2014, 07:43:39 pm »
Re. DP832 Power Supply

Does the 1.03c Keygen still work on the DP832?  I understand that 1. Firmware 01.06.00 should be installed,  2. Install the keys, and then 3. Upgrade the firmware to 01.08.00.
Does this still work Ok?   I seem to recall that someone said they lost everything including the metering accuracy.
Is there anything to this, and if so, can it be prevented?

Thank you for assistance, Wallie
« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 09:05:24 pm by Wall-E »
 

Offline NikWing

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Re: Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus
« Reply #2295 on: January 02, 2014, 08:01:20 pm »
cybernet: what are you trying to achieve? unlocking the A-versions or running an edited firmware or something else? :)
« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 08:17:57 pm by NikWing »
 

Offline Teneyes

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Re: Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus
« Reply #2296 on: January 02, 2014, 08:05:47 pm »
cybernet: what are you trying to achive?
@NikWing        Teasing You   ;D
IiIiIiIiIi  --  curiosity killed the cat but, satisfaction brought it back
 

Offline Rigby

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Re: Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus
« Reply #2297 on: January 02, 2014, 08:08:44 pm »
The website with this generator is far to easy to use. Maybe Rigol can ignore some source code to compile somewhere in a ee-forum. But a website with a keygen generator for the masses? Seriously?

This was my point exactly.  I agree with you 100% and we need to carefully watch what we're doing as a community if we're to remain on the good side of the companies whose products we are modifying if we wish to remain outside their sphere of awareness.

The MAME and MESS projects (as crude examples) do an excellent job of this, mainly by not disassembling or reversing ANYTHING released in the previous 5 years.  I'm not saying that we should follow this pattern exactly, but there should be a defined no-man's land in terms of reversing, if we care about avoiding negative attention from the hardware vendors we are "blessing" with our hacking efforts.  (As an aside, I think the MAME & MESS folks should develop for FPGAs rather than software alone, if they truly want to document the hardware of those old systems.  Those of you familiar with this software will know what I mean.)

There are only a few in this thread who do the core contribution to & development of these hacks, and many assists who make things like the precompiled executables and the web pages, and provide the leaps in ease of use.  If the few important folks decide that biting the hand that feeds us is a bad course of action, then they should communicate that and we should all work together and silently cooperate with Rigol by leaving their latest lines alone.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 08:11:02 pm by Rigby »
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus
« Reply #2298 on: January 02, 2014, 09:20:22 pm »
Bottom line: is the DS2072A hackable to 300 MHz with all options or not?

I don't mind running a script or compiling a Linux program.
Still it would convince me to buy the unit.

The old unit DS2072 is still available, but I guess it is wise to buy the newer unit from a support perspective, or is there no concern here?

How long does it typically take to come up with a new hack? =)
I need to buy my scope latest next week :)
 

Offline echen1024

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Re: Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus
« Reply #2299 on: January 02, 2014, 09:57:07 pm »
Bottom line: is the DS2072A hackable to 300 MHz with all options or not?

I don't mind running a script or compiling a Linux program.
Still it would convince me to buy the unit.

The old unit DS2072 is still available, but I guess it is wise to buy the newer unit from a support perspective, or is there no concern here?

How long does it typically take to come up with a new hack? =)
I need to buy my scope latest next week :)
Well, it depends on if they decide to change the encryption algorithm or not.
I'm not saying we should kill all stupid people. I'm just saying that we should remove all product safety labels and let natural selection do its work.

https://www.youtube.com/user/echen1024
 


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