Author Topic: Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series  (Read 257556 times)

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Online nctnico

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Re: Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series
« Reply #700 on: June 09, 2015, 01:33:39 pm »
IMHO the Amazon picture is an early 3D rendering and missing the digital input connector. BTW Siglent.eu is not an official Siglent website!
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 01:50:15 pm by nctnico »
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Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series
« Reply #701 on: June 09, 2015, 05:53:09 pm »
IMHO the Amazon picture is an early 3D rendering and missing the digital input connector. BTW Siglent.eu is not an official Siglent website!
Looks just like my pre-release unit, that is with NO MSO port.
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Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series
« Reply #702 on: June 10, 2015, 12:05:49 am »
Is there an official firmware upgrade already? Will Dave ever do a review? How successful is this scope on market when compared to Rigol?
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Offline ElektronikLabor

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Re: Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series
« Reply #703 on: June 10, 2015, 06:36:10 am »
IMHO the Amazon picture is an early 3D rendering ...
You could be right, on the second glance the amazon pic looks a bit artificial.

Looks just like my pre-release unit, that is with NO MSO port.
Does your unit has different looking encoder knobs, too?
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series
« Reply #704 on: June 10, 2015, 07:20:33 am »
Is there an official firmware upgrade already? Will Dave ever do a review? How successful is this scope on market when compared to Rigol?
I've been told in the US very well, firmware quite mature now, and competing strongly against DS2000A that it outspecs on several counts.
Separate channel controlls has been a strong selling point.
AFAIK Dave may see one later this year.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 10:34:35 pm by tautech »
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Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series
« Reply #705 on: June 10, 2015, 07:31:04 am »
IMHO the Amazon picture is an early 3D rendering ...
You could be right, on the second glance the amazon pic looks a bit artificial.

Looks just like my pre-release unit, that is with NO MSO port.
Does your unit has different looking encoder knobs, too?
No, mine doesn't, I think nctnico is correct and the image is a rendering.
My front panel layout and colouring, knobs, buttons etc is exactly as the traditional view, just minus the MSO port.
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Offline ElektronikLabor

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Re: Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series
« Reply #706 on: June 10, 2015, 08:27:03 am »
AFAIK Dave will see one later this year.
You can't imagine how glad I am to read this post of you! :-+

My front panel layout and colouring, knobs, buttons etc is exactly as the traditional view, just minus the MSO port.
Thanks!
 

Offline Mark_O

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Re: Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series
« Reply #707 on: June 10, 2015, 09:37:55 am »
firmware quite mature now...

That seems odd.  You are the first person I have heard that from.  I've seen no evidence of any major updates.  When did that happen?

Nico, what's your take on this?
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series
« Reply #708 on: June 10, 2015, 10:05:01 am »
It depends on how you look at it. If 'it doesn't crash' is a qualifier for mature then you could call it mature. But then again I'm not using my SDS2204 a lot; I have made it my carry-along and backup scope. The points in my earlier review still stand but I have had some correspondence with various people at Siglent on what I think would be very useful improvements. They seem to look at Rigol a lot but I urged them to not look at how Rigol also does things wrong but look at Lecroy, Keysight and Tektronix instead. I hope Siglent is working on a firmware update which hopefully enhances the useability of the SDS2000.
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Offline Mark_O

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Re: Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series
« Reply #709 on: June 10, 2015, 10:27:48 pm »
It depends on how you look at it. If 'it doesn't crash' is a qualifier for mature then you could call it mature. But then again I'm not using my SDS2204 a lot; I have made it my carry-along and backup scope. The points in my earlier review still stand but I have had some correspondence with various people at Siglent on what I think would be very useful improvements. They seem to look at Rigol a lot but I urged them to not look at how Rigol also does things wrong but look at Lecroy, Keysight and Tektronix instead. I hope Siglent is working on a firmware update which hopefully enhances the useability of the SDS2000.

Thanks for the "real-user" report, Nico.  :-+

I would agree that simply emulating Rigol is not a good strategy for Siglent (or anybody), and that those you suggested would be greatly superior foundations to take lessons from.  The fact that they now have the SDS3000 in-house should be a concrete example to them of how much better things could be, and provide enhancements that SDS2000 owners would benefit greatly from.

IMO, "not crashing" is an inadequate standard to aspire to.  Frankly, with the usability faults it has, I would not be interested even if it never crashed.  And those faults and limitations are totally correctable, in firmware.  But that requires resources that Siglent has (so far) been unwilling to commit.  It's like you've got this great potential just sitting there (hardware), but it's not getting realized (firmware).

Unfortunately, the impression I'm getting is that Siglent actually DOES consider the SDS2000 to be a "mature product", and doesn't intend to devote additional resources to it.   :-//  And that may be because all their top people are hard at work building their next-gen Model in-house DSO (SDS2500?), based on all the enhanced experiences they have seen with the firmware that LeCroy provided for their SDS3000.

Which would be a very sad situation for anyone purchasing an SDS2000, and expecting things to improve.  It's always important for engineers to buy what exists right now, and not what is rumored, or assumed (or even promised), for some future update.  That's an especially strong recommendation to follow with the SDS2000, since all indications so far are that "what you see is all you will ever get".

If that is enough for some people, then fine.  But it certainly would not be enough to satisfy me.  Hopefully they do have some surprises up their sleeves (getting back to it after their next DSO is released?), and those will be incorporated into what they eventually send to Dave to review. 

I have a pretty good idea what his review would say (based on the current units), but there's no point in my writing it for him here.  :)  Oh heck... why not?  Something like, "It's a decent enough unit, with a few small things done better than Rigol.  But unless you REALLY need the 4-channels, there's no compelling reason to buy one over a Rigol."  That's just my guess.  But it may explain why Dave still doesn't have one yet, after all this time.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 10:36:40 pm by Mark_O »
 

Offline Mark_O

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Re: Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series
« Reply #710 on: June 10, 2015, 10:34:33 pm »
And as a Postscript, I would be much happier to hear that Siglent did NOT consider it to be a "mature product" yet.   :'(

So I was kind of hoping that Tautech misspoke, or that improvements had been made that folks were keeping a secret.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series
« Reply #711 on: June 10, 2015, 11:04:03 pm »
And as a Postscript, I would be much happier to hear that Siglent did NOT consider it to be a "mature product" yet.   :'(
In hindsight: The way I like to read Tautech's remark regarding mature firmware is that the new firmware version is almost ready for release. Drum roll please...
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Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series
« Reply #712 on: June 11, 2015, 11:17:05 am »
And that may be because all their top people are hard at work building their next-gen Model in-house DSO (SDS2500?), based on all the enhanced experiences they have seen with the firmware that LeCroy provided for their SDS3000.

What experience? Do you really believe LeCroy would give Siglent any access to the firmware of the SDS3000? Well, they don't. All Siglent gets is a encrypted binary blob they can flash into their scopes.

There's not really much to learn from that.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series
« Reply #713 on: June 11, 2015, 11:45:03 am »
And that may be because all their top people are hard at work building their next-gen Model in-house DSO (SDS2500?), based on all the enhanced experiences they have seen with the firmware that LeCroy provided for their SDS3000.

What experience? Do you really believe LeCroy would give Siglent any access to the firmware of the SDS3000? Well, they don't. All Siglent gets is a encrypted binary blob they can flash into their scopes.

There's not really much to learn from that.
Ofcourse there is: how an oscilloscope should work!
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Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series
« Reply #714 on: June 12, 2015, 05:07:41 am »
Quote
What experience? Do you really believe LeCroy would give Siglent any access to the firmware of the SDS3000? Well, they don't. All Siglent gets is a encrypted binary blob they can flash into their scopes.

There's not really much to learn from that.
Ofcourse there is: how an oscilloscope should work!

Well, Siglent could have already learned that from the LeCroy oscilloscopes they are using in their own labs, or by having a closer look at scopes from other big brand manufacturers (i.e. Agilent's DSOX), but apparently they didn't do that or the SDS2000 firmware side wouldn't have been the mess it is.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 05:33:47 am by Wuerstchenhund »
 

Offline Mark_O

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Re: Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series
« Reply #715 on: June 15, 2015, 07:59:09 pm »
And that may be because all their top people are hard at work building their next-gen Model in-house DSO (SDS2500?), based on all the enhanced experiences they have seen with the firmware that LeCroy provided for their SDS3000.

What experience? Do you really believe LeCroy would give Siglent any access to the firmware of the SDS3000?

No, of course not.  I was referring to the usability of the UI.  The Chinese have a certain reputation for being able to copy, and you don't need the source code to be able to emulate the functionality and operation of another series.

Quote
There's not really much to learn from that.

Seeing an example of something that's been done properly certainly presents ample opportunities for it to be emulated.  Especially when you're the one building and testing them, and have mass quantities scattered all over.

However, you are certainly correct that they've had the potential to do that, long before now.  And even when they've been emulating the Agilent look & feel, they've fallen short.  Perhaps my view was naive.

But I still get the impression that their core team is off doing something else, and the SDS2000-series is getting very little attention (if any).  Which is a shame.
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series
« Reply #716 on: June 15, 2015, 10:20:56 pm »
How many software engineers does Siglent have in their R&D department?
Same question is interesting for Rigol. Would be nice to have some more details on the size of their R&D departments that focus on software development for digital scopes.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series
« Reply #717 on: June 15, 2015, 11:28:43 pm »
Some Googling revealed this picture:

 :-DD
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Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series
« Reply #718 on: August 29, 2015, 10:41:27 pm »
I've had reason to whip the cover off my SDS2304 and thought I'd share some photos of the shielding as I'd not seen any on the net.
My unit is a 2013 pre-market release, HW 3.3

Under the ABS rear cover all circuitry is completely shielded, the main PCB with ~2mm Aluminum and the PSU with steel. PSU is mounted on top of main PCB shielding.


Main PCB with all shielding removed.
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Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series
« Reply #719 on: August 30, 2015, 02:45:29 pm »
Does the airflow go through the PSU? I don't think so, but it is hard to recognise from the photos.
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series
« Reply #720 on: August 30, 2015, 03:06:31 pm »
Does the airflow go through the PSU? I don't think so, but it is hard to recognise from the photos.

Yes. Designed part of airflow go through the PSU. Is it problem?
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Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series
« Reply #721 on: August 30, 2015, 05:01:49 pm »


Yes. Designed part of airflow go through the PSU
Then it is OK.
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Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series
« Reply #722 on: September 07, 2015, 11:04:21 am »
I've been lucky enough to get a Beta copy of the forthcoming SDS2000 Firmware.
There is a changelog file, but alas many entries are listed as bug fixes.

There are some subtle changes to the GUI, slightly different fonts, along with more and new on-screen indicators.
New LAN indicator that changes color when a connection is active, IP address is displayed in the LAN IO page for quick identification to link with your preferred DSO management application.

Hi Res mode now seems to work as intended but is re-named Eres and has adjustable enhancement setting of 0.5 to 3 in 1/2 bit steps.  :o
I've not encountered this UI before and explanation would be appreciated.

In Eres mode with 50 Ohm terminated inputs the noise floor displayed is 160 uV p-p.

Further fiddling will take place tomorrow, but then I must away until the weekend.

Any requests?
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Online nctnico

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Re: Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series
« Reply #723 on: September 07, 2015, 12:26:16 pm »
Press the stop button in hires and average mode. Does the thin trace stay in this firmware version?
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series
« Reply #724 on: September 07, 2015, 12:29:22 pm »
I've been lucky enough to get a Beta copy of the forthcoming SDS2000 Firmware.
There is a changelog file, but alas many entries are listed as bug fixes.

There are some subtle changes to the GUI, slightly different fonts, along with more and new on-screen indicators.
New LAN indicator that changes color when a connection is active, IP address is displayed in the LAN IO page for quick identification to link with your preferred DSO management application.

Hi Res mode now seems to work as intended but is re-named Eres and has adjustable enhancement setting of 0.5 to 3 in 1/2 bit steps.  :o
I've not encountered this UI before and explanation would be appreciated.

In Eres mode with 50 Ohm terminated inputs the noise floor displayed is 160 uV p-p.

Further fiddling will take place tomorrow, but then I must away until the weekend.

Any requests?

Siglent have classified it as confidential. I think it is good to respect it.
Also it looks that it is not yet mature at all.  So it is perhaps justified to keep details off from public and report only to Siglent what we detect.

If we talk and leaks too much details it may lead wrong decisions and very confused situation when some information is perhaps soon obsolete.

I have also  started testing this  beta.

Lets keep things so that we can also in future get confidential test versions without on the paper signed NDA.

It is nice there is now  implemented ERES (instead of boxcar average hi-res)  and peak detect is fixed so that it works also in roll mode and many other things + many things what still need hard intelligent work and thinking but then also need brute force work.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 06:57:24 pm by rf-loop »
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