Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series

[tautech]

So I have changed to a 4 wire setup, grabbed CS and decoded packets now are displayed. 
I have set up a edge trigger on Ch1 CK, and all the rest is done in the decoding suite.

So 2 more images with a similar setup as before, anything additional can be read off screen.
Left the List off this time so trigger position can be clearly seen.

This time I have shown Prt Scr captures from my PC with Easyscope. 
Hope they look alright when posted.

[Mark_O]

So I have changed to a 4 wire setup, grabbed CS and decoded packets now are displayed. 
I have set up a edge trigger on Ch1 CK, and all the rest is done in the decoding suite.

Thanks for the followup.  At least we have separate packets now.  Yet as you see, most are 00's.

Hope they look alright when posted.

Well...    I don't have an SDS unit myself, so I'm not familiar with the config settings.  But I'll just mention what I'm seeing, and how I interpret it.

In the first set of traces, we see 4 msg bursts, then a 5th later on.  The decode is too tight to see what's happening during the bursts, but the interesting thing is that the inter-packet gaps are being decoded as 00 bytes (mostly).

The second set is more illuminating, because we can now see the bus traffic better.  Ch4 (green) is the CS line (with a bit of hash on it), and dicates the only time the bus is active.  And that correlates with Ch1 (yellow) being the clock bursts.  Strangely though, some inversion has taken place, because the only time decode is happening is in the inter-packet gaps, when CS is deasserted.  All the MOSI/MISO activity occurs within the CS active region, and that's where the real data is found.  You can see the Master/Slave relationship between msgs on Blue and Red respectively.

Is it possible you've set the CS line as active Low or something?  You're definitely getting closer though! 

[tautech]

Thanks for the followup.  At least we have separate packets now.  Yet as you see, most are 00's.

The bus was busy and ever-changing so it was a choice of capturing something that could be zoomed in on that made sense and with a reasonable number of packets to display in a post so WYSIWYG

Is it possible you've set the CS line as active Low or something?

No, the Siglent option for this is "Idle High or Low"
Selection was made for "Idle Low" that is the same as Active High. 

Considering my very limited experience with decoding, I thought the results were OK.
Plus the opportunity to have a play with Easyscope.

The whole process of identifying the devices and the protocols they use plus setting a scope correctly for decoding, was a good learning experience.
Thanks Mark for your guidance and patience. 

[kwass]

Can any of you that have one of these SDS2000 series oscilloscopes please comment on the fan noise?

Thanks!
Katie

[tautech]

Can any of you that have one of these SDS2000 series oscilloscopes please comment on the fan noise?

Thanks!
Katie

Katie, the fan is a 90 mm single speed unit near the middle at the rear of the DPO.
Mine is an ADDA model AD0912DS-A70GL    12 V 0.09 Amps
There might be noise and flow specs for it or similar online.

Practically it is quite quiet. Less than a PC, similar to a laptop but different and by virtue of its size a quite different tone, more hushed.
I believe user sensitivity to noisy scopes has led to Siglent selecting a large slow unit to keep it quiet.

At arms length you are aware it is on, little more.

[echen1024]

Can any of you that have one of these SDS2000 series oscilloscopes please comment on the fan noise?

Thanks!
Katie

Katie, the fan is a 90 mm single speed unit near the middle at the rear of the DPO.
Mine is an ADDA model AD0912DS-A70GL    12 V 0.09 Amps
There might be noise and flow specs for it or similar online.

Practically it is quite quiet. Less than a PC, similar to a laptop but different and by virtue of its size a quite different tone, more hushed.
I believe user sensitivity to noisy scopes has led to Siglent selecting a large slow unit to keep it quiet.

At arms length you are aware it is on, little more.

UNlike my Rigol. Bloody jet engine could turn on and I wouldn't notice it.

[kwass]

Katie, the fan is a 90 mm single speed unit near the middle at the rear of the DPO.
Mine is an ADDA model AD0912DS-A70GL    12 V 0.09 Amps
There might be noise and flow specs for it or similar online.

Tautech,

That's most helpful, thank you!

I've been replacing the fans on my test equipment and PCs with low noise versions.  In every case it makes a huge difference and the replacement fans typically only cost $10 to $12 (US).  Unfortunately doing this voids the warranty, but it's worth it to me for the peace and quiet.  From the specs on this fan, Siglent seems to have put a pretty quiet one in the SDS2000 (at least yours).

-Katie

[nctnico]

When replacing fans always check the air displacement and pressure! A large air displacement and pressure means a lot of noise. Only good quality fans (which cost a multiple of $12) make less noise while providing the same airflow. The best thing to do is replace an original crappy fan with an expensive FAN and add temperature control. But that is going to take at least $50.

edit: typo

[marmad]

I've been replacing the fans on my test equipment and PCs with low noise versions.  In every case it makes a huge difference and the replacement fans typically only cost $10 to $12 (US).  Unfortunately doing this voids the warranty, but it's worth it to me for the peace and quiet.  From the specs on this fan, Siglent seems to have put a pretty quiet one in the SDS2000 (at least yours).

Yes - I agree strongly with what nctnico wrote. Test equipment is often designed to run hot to begin with - if you don't match the air displacement and pressure, you risk doing damage to more than just the warranty.

[ronniegogs]

I am considering this oscilloscope for my small home lab. I got the decent price quote for the SDS2072 but wanna know if it has the ARB signal generator built in. As its mentioned as optional in some websites and not in others. Any idea how to identify the model without a signal generator or do all models have it

[tautech]

I am considering this oscilloscope for my small home lab. I got the decent price quote for the SDS2072 but wanna know if it has the ARB signal generator built in. As its mentioned as optional in some websites and not in others. Any idea how to identify the model without a signal generator or do all models have it

All of the options hardware is installed at the factory.
Options must be purchased to continue to operate beyond the trial period.
SN specific code is needed to lock an option as permanent.

My pricing for the AWG is US$188 rrp plus taxes if any. This option is referred to as FG.
So the model you are looking at with purchased AWG option would be SDS2072-FG

The AWG output is a BNC at the bottom right of the front panel.

[ronniegogs]

Ok so let me get this clear

SDS2072 is basic config has all hardware installed for the option which are unlocked by software.

As far as I can see AWG, power analysis are optional.

Are MSO functions also optional ?

So if I buy a basic SDS2072 I just get a basic oscilloscope which I can pay to unlock more features in future.

[tautech]

SDS2072 is basic config has all hardware installed for the option which are unlocked by software.

Yes exactly.

Options:
MSO 8 channel
PA Power Analysis
DC Decode
FG AWG

So if I buy a basic SDS2072 I just get a basic oscilloscope which I can pay to unlock more features in future.

Yes Exactly

At my last inquiry the MSO had not been released, although I believe the final firmware for it was nearly ready. There are MSO appraisal units undergoing field development.
So we hope this option is not too much further from release.

[ronniegogs]

SDS2072 is basic config has all hardware installed for the option which are unlocked by software.

Yes exactly.

Options:
MSO 8 channel
PA Power Analysis
DC Decode
FG AWG

So if I buy a basic SDS2072 I just get a basic oscilloscope which I can pay to unlock more features in future.

Yes Exactly

At my last inquiry the MSO had not been released, although I believe the final firmware for it was nearly ready. There are MSO appraisal units undergoing field development.
So we hope this option is not too much further from release.

Thank you for clearing all my doubts. Guess I will go for a simple SDS1072CML and SDG805 for now and will think about this model when I outgrow the basic combo.

Will keep and eye out for this development of the 2000  series and may get it in the future with as an all in out package.

[tautech]

I had similar thoughts....
But when you consider how many instruments are in 1 package and add to that the footprint is no larger than the SDS1072CML, only taller.
And if the 4 channel scope is chosen, well need I say more.

[ronniegogs]

I had similar thoughts....
But when you consider how many instruments are in 1 package and add to that the footprint is no larger than the SDS1072CML, only taller.
And if the 4 channel scope is chosen, well need I say more.

Yes although its a good choice, it will be a shame if I am not able to use the features considering the fact that I am a beginner and just getting back in by setting up a lab after doing electrical and electronics engineering almost 6 years ago and not touching the subject for all these years.

Better get my hands wet with the basic combo which should be more than capable for the projects I have in mind.

[tautech]

I am pleased announce the release of the Siglent SDS2000 series MSO option along with the following enhancements:

1, MSO function stabilized and optimized
2, Serial triggering and Decode function improved
3, added SCPI function
4, supported VXI-11
5, added multiple languages
6, added the Power Analysis software module
7, added cursor tracking mode

[rf-loop]

I am pleased announce the release of the Siglent SDS2000 series MSO option along with the following enhancements:

1, MSO function stabilized and optimized
2, Serial triggering and Decode function improved
3, added SCPI function
4, supported VXI-11
5, added multiple languages
6, added the Power Analysis software module
7, added cursor tracking mode

Yes. new FW arrived.  I have not yet installed it. I hope I get later some time for testing.

[Siglent]

I am pleased announce the release of the Siglent SDS2000 series MSO option along with the following enhancements:

1, MSO function stabilized and optimized
2, Serial triggering and Decode function improved
3, added SCPI function
4, supported VXI-11
5, added multiple languages
6, added the Power Analysis software module
7, added cursor tracking mode

Guys, you can download the new firmware from the official website now.
http://www.siglent.com/en/server/download.aspx?nodecode=119004002006

[tautech]

I apologize for the above Siglent FW link to a locked file. 
This has been remedied and now the firmware downloads and installs correctly.
Now..... to check out the improvements. 

[Mark_O]

Regarding pricing on the LA option, back in June tautech wrote:

MSO option including 8 Ch probe set and activation US$493 Siglent RRP + taxes if any.

Based on how Siglent priced the core DSO, the pricing on the LA option seems out of balance to me.  Especially for an 8-channel LA.  The delta on pricing for Rigol's MSO2000 over their DSO is only $400.  And that is for 16 channels (twice), digital sampling at 1 GSa/s (twice), and 14-28M depth (vs. 10M).  [I was told 10M here, but 14M would seem more in line with the analog depth on the SDS2000?]

Yet the Siglent LA costs more?  Of course, the LA can't just be added to a DS2000 Rigol, as it can on the Siglents.  But the Rigols hold their value well enough I can see those wanting an MSO selling their DS2000 to upgrade.

I'd likely prefer a 12-channel Siglent (4 analog, 8 digital) over an 18-channel Rigol (2 analog, 16 digital), for what I do.  But not with the disparities mentioned above, combined with an extra ~$420 premium for the Siglent combo.  [Plus, I'm still looking for the SCPI manual for the SDS2000, so who knows how much of that even works, at this point?]

But the win on the SDS2000, with 4-channels (beyond that inherent in the extra channels themselves), is that it can still do 2GSa/s with 2 channels enabled, vs. only 1 GSa/s for the comparable Rigol.

[tautech]

Mark, from the pricing I had at that time(pre MSO release) is where $493 came from.

I have checked my July pricing and surprise, surprise MSO option is now US$299 rrp + taxes if any.(confirmed from Siglent)
This is for the probe set and a license to enable MSO.
Attached is the Datasheet for the MSO probe set.

Siglent SDS2000 MSO is rated 500MSa/s Max per channel.

I have received a new version of the manual that includes an MSO chapter and other additions.
But I am told there is a further version soon to be released, more updated.

I am waiting on a reply from Siglent for a link to the V2 manual.
Just received, this should be it: User manual download page
 http://www.siglent.com/en/server/download.aspx?nodecode=119004002001

As far as I can see there is only 3 SCPI commands in the Easyscope application.
*IDN??*OPC??*RST along with ASCII or Hex encoding.
I have no further information.

[nctnico]

Interesting. A few things about the digital channels I'm missing:
- 1.8V logic level threshold
- Bus display as ASCII characters
- Bus display as analog level (signed / unsigned) to check data going into a DAC or data coming from an ADC

[tautech]

Interesting. A few things about the digital channels I'm missing:
- 1.8V logic level threshold
- Bus display as ASCII characters
- Bus display as analog level (signed / unsigned) to check data going into a DAC or data coming from an ADC

Thanks, Siglent will be watching.
Custom Threshold level Variable from -3V to +3V (from SDS2000 V2 manual)

[Mark_O]

Mark, from the pricing I had at that time(pre MSO release) is where $493 came from.

I have checked my July pricing and surprise, surprise MSO option is now US$299 rrp + taxes if any.(confirmed from Siglent)
This is for the probe set and a license to enable MSO.

Thanks!  That's way better than the original pricing, and is actually what I was thinking would make sense, in their pricing structure.  And the price for the protocol decoders was already very reasonable.

The new manual is significantly improved.  Beyond the new LA section, it's been expanded quite a bit, there's a better description of the History function, and a chart of the sample sizes vs. # of segments that was absent before.  (Hopefully there's some hysteresis on the logic channels.)

It's 216 pages now, so it will take me more than just a few minutes to reread the whole thing.  Thanks for the v2 link.