Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series

[tautech]

Well here you are...the interruptions for household stuff and visitors aren't included. 

[tautech]

Ok, no problem, I see it tomorrow, it's bedtime here.
Cheers!

Shit 32 timebase settings. 

LOL... Do it only for 1ms/div (for example) with different memory depths.

There is no change in Trig Out parameters related to Memory Depth changes @ 1 mS/div.

[Carrington]

@ tautech: Thank you very much.

I attached this table as jpg.

[marmad]

Well here you are...the interruptions for household stuff and visitors aren't included.

Thank you for doing that. But it is the third time on the forum that the same 14M memory setting table has been posted (first by Herman, then by rf-loop), although this time it's with Vectors enabled instead of Dots, which is good to see.

So I'm assuming that the Trigger Out frequency is always the same at any given time base regardless of sample setting (since no one has posted numbers for any other setting)?

[rf-loop]

Well here you are...the interruptions for household stuff and visitors aren't included.

Thank you for doing that. But it is the third time on the forum that the same 14M memory setting table has been posted (first by Herman, then by rf-loop), although this time it's with Vectors enabled instead of Dots, which is good to see.

So I'm assuming that the Trigger Out frequency is always the same at any given time base regardless of sample setting (since no one has posted numbers for any other setting)?

In vector display mode trig out frequency is much more dependent about input signal waveform.
Example 1MHz square ~37.5k  and with 10MHz sine roughly around 34k and with 50MHz sine roughly around 16k
(50ns/div, CH1, trig auto, 2GSa/s, 1.4kpoints waveform lenght and displayed lenght.)
But, with display mode dots: roughly independent of input waveform and as showed before (also sin(x)/x off) around 87.3kHz. (exept of course if input signal is very slow, example 5kHz, then trig out is somewhere around 4.85kHz (but with this speed dots or vectors, not any meaningfull difference).

[marmad]

In vector display mode trig out frequency is much more dependent about input signal waveform.

Yes, Rigol DS2000 is the same. Even the shape of the input signal can slightly affect the rate in vector mode - for example, 1MHz square ~26.37k, 1MHz sine ~26.6k, 1MHz, and ramp ~26.66k.

But, with display mode dots: roughly independent of input waveform and as showed before (also sin(x)/x off) around 87.3kHz. (exept of course if input signal is very slow, example 5kHz, then trig out is somewhere around 4.85kHz (but with this speed dots or vectors, not any meaningfull difference).

But the rates are the same at each time base regardless of memory setting of the scope - in other words, they are linked to the displayed samples (like the Agilent)?

[rf-loop]

But the rates are the same regardless of memory setting of the scope - in other words, they are linked to the displayed samples (like the Agilent)?

As I have told, there is (1): 1 captured waveform is horizontally equal to display area (14 div). There is not invisible part of waveform outside of display horizontal area. What is captured is also visible (less blind time) Also as in published table, example with 1ns/div and 2GSa/s capture length is 28pts.

(1)this is now with this FW what is not at all ready. (it is fully possible there is coming (or not coming - who knows) feature where user can also select if he want minimize "blind"  time or select long capture  also with fast horizontal times. But, in real, it do not give so much, becouse 1ms/div there is full 2GSa/s and if want long capture but detailed look inside some small part of capture of course zoom can use. Example 1ms/div and details with 1ns/div if need.

If look example oscilloscope where  is 10k minimum memory and 10 horizontal div display.  If there is 1GSa/s sampling and 2ns/div speed it means that displayed visible area have 20 sample points and invisible there is 99980 points (capture is, in this case, 5000 div but visible is only 10 div. Alone this give visible/invisible time ratio 1:499. and then of course time between every single capture and not visible/visible ratio is - as we know - terrible. But if is is acceptable or not, it depends what user is doing with scope.
(why capture something what can not see.. )

[marmad]

(why capture something what can not see.. )

Sure, I agree that for Normal sweeping, this is certainly the best method. But if, for example, I have sample length set to 140k at 2ns/div and I capture segments - I want each of those segments to be 140k, not 56 bytes - so I can Zoom both in and out while examining them. With the Rigol this happens by using the Memory Depth setting; with the Agilent you specify how many total segments to split the entire memory into.

Ideally, DSOs should have something like the following memory settings 

AUTO-SRATE: adjusts sample length for fastest sample rate
AUTO-URATE: adjusts sample length for fastest waveform update rate
MANUAL: allows manually selecting a fixed sample length

[marmad]

@rf-loop or tautech:

Would it be possible to see an image of an AM signal during Normal sweep @ 1ms/div (or 500us/div for memory match)?

Acquire: Normal
Memory depth: 14M (or 28M)
Display: Sin(x)/x (Vectors)
Time base: 1ms/div
Input signal: 100 Hz - Fo: 50kHz - Depth: 0.99

From the Rigol:

[tautech]

Well here you are...the interruptions for household stuff and visitors aren't included.

Thank you for doing that. But it is the third time on the forum that the same 14M memory setting table has been posted (first by Herman, then by rf-loop), although this time it's with Vectors enabled instead of Dots, which is good to see.

Trig Out frequency is different in many timebase settings with Dots enabled.

Quote
@tautech: Perhaps there's just a bug in what the Siglent is reporting as the selected memory size?

No not a bug. My Siglent info states 28 M memory depth is available 1 mS/div to 50 S/div.

This spec is about to be enabled I believe. As yet we only have one 28 M teaser @ 1 mS/div.

So I'm assuming that the Trigger Out frequency is always the same at any given time base regardless of sample setting (since no one has posted numbers for any other setting)?

Essentially yes. There are small changes in pulse length however.

[tautech]

Would it be possible to see an image of an AM signal during Normal sweep @ 1ms/div (or 500us/div for memory match)?

@ 1 mS/div there is so much data(28M) that the capture is a total yellow blur.
Tried various things to get a better capture for you but this one is fairly representative of all attempts. 

[marmad]

@ 1 mS/div there is so much data(28M) that the capture is a total yellow blur.
Tried various things to get a better capture for you but this one is fairly representative of all attempts. 

Thanks, tautech. 

I'm not sure why, but it doesn't seem as if there's any intensity-grading in that image. Compare it to the following from the Rigol DS2000 using 28M:

[tautech]

I'm not sure why, but it doesn't seem as if there's any intensity-grading in that image.

I did not have it on, but fresh attempts with it on make little difference.
However with it on the same AM waveform @ 2 uS shows 3 Graded traces.
I have used Intensity Grading on other than AM waveforms and it works fine.

As I have stated before we will have to wait for all Firmware tweaks to be installed before we can see this DSO's full potential. 

[marmad]

I did not have it on, but fresh attempts with it on make little difference.
However with it on the same AM waveform @ 2 uS shows 3 Graded traces.
I have used Intensity Grading on other than AM waveforms and it works fine.

Thanks for your attempts. I have yet to see any intensity-graded images or animated GIFs posted from the Siglent SDS2000 using more than 140k/280k memory.

[tautech]

I did not have it on, but fresh attempts with it on make little difference.
However with it on the same AM waveform @ 2 uS shows 3 Graded traces.
I have used Intensity Grading on other than AM waveforms and it works fine.

Thanks for your attempts. I have yet to see any intensity-graded images or animated GIFs posted from the Siglent SDS2000 using more than 140k memory.

EDIT: Perhaps that's how the Siglent achieves it's whopping throughput speeds with deep memory: little or no intensity-grading above a certain sample size?

Fiddling with grading intensity displays some wonderful pretty images. 
Edit: @ 28 M they are quite stunning.
 However they are not displayed when Single shot or saved. 
Possibly results reflect the fact that I can only capture with a USB stick as i do not yet have software for PC connection. 

[echen1024]

I did not have it on, but fresh attempts with it on make little difference.
However with it on the same AM waveform @ 2 uS shows 3 Graded traces.
I have used Intensity Grading on other than AM waveforms and it works fine.

Thanks for your attempts. I have yet to see any intensity-graded images or animated GIFs posted from the Siglent SDS2000 using more than 140k memory.

EDIT: Perhaps that's how the Siglent achieves it's whopping throughput speeds with deep memory: little or no intensity-grading above a certain sample size?

Fiddling with grading intensity displays some wonderful pretty images.  However they are not displayed when Single shot or saved. 
Possibly results reflect the fact that I can only capture with a USB stick as i do not yet have software for PC connection. 

Some are really quite beautiful. On the Rigol DS1074Z though, if you just stop it and print screen, you can save the look of the intensity grading.

[tautech]

I did not have it on, but fresh attempts with it on make little difference.
However with it on the same AM waveform @ 2 uS shows 3 Graded traces.
I have used Intensity Grading on other than AM waveforms and it works fine.

Thanks for your attempts. I have yet to see any intensity-graded images or animated GIFs posted from the Siglent SDS2000 using more than 140k memory.

EDIT: Perhaps that's how the Siglent achieves it's whopping throughput speeds with deep memory: little or no intensity-grading above a certain sample size?

Fiddling with grading intensity displays some wonderful pretty images.  However they are not displayed when Single shot or saved. 
Possibly results reflect the fact that I can only capture with a USB stick as i do not yet have software for PC connection. 

Some are really quite beautiful. On the Rigol DS1074Z though, if you just stop it and print screen, you can save the look of the intensity grading.

Yep changed Print button to Save. 
I will get back on to it. 

[tautech]

Fiddling with grading intensity displays some wonderful pretty images.  However they are not displayed when Single shot or saved. 
Possibly results reflect the fact that I can only capture with a USB stick as i do not yet have software for PC connection. 

But didn't you already post this image with intensity-grading in it?



And rf-loop posted this one:




Again, just none with sample size > 140k/280k (also nothing in Siglent's promotional material).

rfloop's image has Color (Intensity Grading) off. 

EDIT: Top image displays Ch 4 (green) waveform only. No color grading !

[marmad]

rfloop's image has Color (Intensity Grading) off. 

I'm fairly certain he has Intensity Grading ON (not Color Grading). It's evident in the changes in intensity of the waveform brightness on it's edges. Unless it's just intensity buffer information Siglent is including when saving the image.

EDIT: Top image displays Ch 4 (green) waveform only. No color grading !

I haven't mentioned Color grading - only Intensity grading.

[tautech]

rfloop's image has Color (Intensity Grading) off. 

It sure looks like he has Intensity-Grading ON. It's evident in the changes in intensity of the waveform brightness on it's edges. Unless those are artifacts - or whatever information Siglent is including when saving the image?

Anyway, deleted that message since it seems the problem was just your familiarity with the DSO 

Here is the real deal. 
A portion of the AM waveform @ 2 uS.
Sample size was not affected with Grading ON or OFF
@ 1 mS it was a red blur.

[marmad]

Here is the real deal. 
A portion of the AM waveform @ 2 uS.
Sample size was not affected with Grading ON or OFF
@ 1 mS it was a red blur.

Nice image - tinhead's gonna love that  - but once again, it's with a sample size of 56k - which is <= 140k/280k sample size mentioned above. Where are the stunning 28M (or 14M or 1.4M) graded waveforms you mentioned? I posted a nice one from my Rigol above.

If you can't manage to get one of an AM signal, can't you do a simple sweep or anything to show grading effects with deep memory?

Also, I think you're confusing Color and Intensity grading:

Color grading is mapping intensity levels to individual different colors - as in your image.
Intensity grading is mapping intensity levels to shades of the waveform color - as in rf-loop's image - or my images.

[tautech]

Same AM waveform @ 10 uS for 280 K sample.

[marmad]

BTW, I would suggest setting save parameters in DSO to save images as PNG - for size and clarity.

[tautech]

BTW, I would suggest setting save parameters in DSO to save images as PNG - for size and clarity.

By Default it saves BMP and I compress these to speed upload for my shitty ADSL 1 connection.

The ISP's here just out of town want a real kick in the nuts to provide even a half decent service. 

[GeoffS]

What happened to 'Remove' button for messages?

I wonder Too

From moderator Simon a while ago

you can delete your own posts, or at least edit them and remove the text, this is often better as it helps the topic make sense as posts just disapearing from the middle cause confusion.

This was changed today but not announced.