Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series

[tautech]

I'll give my $.02 for the Siglent SDS2000 knobs:

I thought they were fine.  The press to click felt nice, those with indentations felt nice...and the two knobs identified as wobbly knobs  were not that wobbly in my opinion. Maybe my hardware was different or I dont notice wobbly encoders.

I did not care for the spacing between intensity and trigger knobs though.  I was required to grip differently because my fingers could not fit in between. But overall I thought the mechanical design of the scope was decent.

Also, I thought scrolling through menu options with knobs worked fine. Scrolling did not seem overly sensitive.  I had latest firmware.

Don, that's an accurate appraisal of the latest firmware, much better that the very early versions.
As my unit is a very early one, HW 3.3, there may well have been encoder improvements.
Your comment re not noticing wobbly encoders is quite valid IMO.
It has not been until I joined EEVblog and read such discussion, that I discovered it concerned some equipment owners.
Until then I had never noticed ANY wobbles in controls, just used them.

@varesa
Rest assured there are no mechanical problems with the encoders.
As the latest firmware is quite recent, any existing videos may be outdated that demonstrate the UI.

[Mark_O]

As the latest firmware is quite recent, any existing videos may be outdated that demonstrate the UI.

The videos that have been pointed out here are at least 3 months old.  So any conclusions related to firmware are no longer current.

We'll just have to wait until someone who has their hands on one has the time to do a proper review.  Of course, any piecemeal comments and observations here from owners is very valuable as well.  So, many thanks to Don for sharing his insights and experiences.

[nctnico]

I thought they were fine.  The press to click felt nice, those with indentations felt nice...and the two knobs identified as wobbly knobs  were not that wobbly in my opinion. Maybe my hardware was different or I dont notice wobbly encoders.

If you want wobbly knobs: get a Tektronix TDS5xx/6xx/7xx scope. I can 'wobble' the knobs on mine about 5mm up&down.

[omglol]

Pardon me to interrupt the discussion, but I am really interested - is Dave planning to do a review on this one?

[tautech]

Pardon me to interrupt the discussion, but I am really interested - is Dave planning to do a review on this one?

Had a search for "SDS2000 dave" knowing your answer was in this thread, but found another post:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-scope-choice-memory-questions/msg490022/#msg490022

I am not sure how far Dave's review might be away, but we await feedback from nctnico.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent's-new-product-msosds2000-series/msg497170/#msg497170

Don recently gave his insights that are worthy of note as an experienced scope user.

[tautech]

For those following this thread, a link to marmad's review:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/review-siglent-sds2304-a-comparison-of-features-with-rigol-ds2000-series/msg499524/#msg499524

[Hydrawerk]

Thank you for that info.

[Siglent]

Hi guys,
 Effective December 7, 2014 SIGLENT TECHNOLOGIES  is offering free upgrades to all SDS2000 Series Oscilloscopes  purchased from authorized SIGLENT distributors.
 
Free  Upgrade #1:
    Bandwidth upgrade or options are free as  follows.   
 1.  SDS2072/SDS2074 Models will be upgraded to SDS2102/SDS2104 at no charge...
Free  Upgrade #2;
    Purchase  one option and then get two more options for free! Details are as follows.
If you purchase a SIGLENT SDS2000 Series Oscilloscope with a  bandwidth of 70/100/200 MHz as well as the MSO option (at the time of purchase)...
More information
Siglent International http://www.siglent.com/ENs/pdxx.aspx?id=25&T=2&tid=1
Siglent America http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=25&T=2&tid=1
Siglent Europe  http://siglenteu.com/pdxx.aspx?id=25&T=2&tid=1

[Mark_O]

Hi guys,
 Effective December 7, 2014 SIGLENT TECHNOLOGIES  is offering free upgrades to all SDS2000 Series Oscilloscopes  purchased from authorized SIGLENT distributors.

Free  Upgrade #1:
    Bandwidth upgrade or options are free as  follows.   
 1.  SDS2072/SDS2074 Models will be upgraded to SDS2102/SDS2104 at no charge...
Free  Upgrade #2;
    Purchase  one option and then get two more options for free! Details are as follows.
If you purchase a SIGLENT SDS2000 Series Oscilloscope with a  bandwidth of 70/100/200 MHz as well as the MSO option (at the time of purchase)...

Thanks for the information, Siglent.

This is a pretty significant offering, for those considering an SDS2000 model.  It represents savings of about $320 off the 100 MHz model, $500 off the 200 MHz model, and $570 off the 300 MHz model.  Those are 21%, 25%, and 22% savings, respectively.

It's not clear from the above (which kind of implies buy any one option and get two free), but the links explain that option you must buy is the MSO at $299, and then you get the Decoders and AWG for free.  That's about another $375 value (or 56% savings off the combo).

For those thinking of buying the $2,558 300 MHz model and all 3 options (MSO, Decoders, AWG), all those Options are free, which is a $675 savings (or 21% off).

Good to note that you don't have to decide immediately, or cope with Christmas-time empty-wallet syndrome  ... the offer is good until the end of next February.  And perhaps Siglent will have some significant firmware upgrades to offer by then, that would make the purchase even more attractive.

[nctnico]

I really should have waited until Christmas before buying 

[tequipment]

We will have all these promos up at www.Tequipment.NET sometime tomorrow.

[nctnico]

To be honest you'd be better off waiting for Siglent to fix the bugs in the SDS2000 firmware first. You can expect a lot of returns because the current firmware definitely does not deliver to the promised features and specifications.

[rf-loop]

SDS2000 series acquire mode "Peak detect"

It is working, (with bug notes). 

Find here in other thread more.

[nctnico]

Peak detect isn't working on the SDS2000. I have verified/tested that myself.

[rf-loop]

Peak detect isn't working on the SDS2000. I have verified/tested that myself.

Look agen these my pictures. Do you think they are not true?

[nctnico]

You wrote it yourself: peak detect doesn't work with sweep settings slower than 50ms/div. And that is exactly where you need peak detect to work. Think about hsync and vsync pulses when working with displays.

[Siglent America]

I was just informed that the new firmware is in final testing this week.

Peak Detect is one of the issues that has been addressed.

We appreciate your patience!

Steve

[rf-loop]

You wrote it yourself: peak detect doesn't work with sweep settings slower than 50ms/div. And that is exactly where you need peak detect to work. Think about hsync and vsync pulses when working with displays.

Yes, I think.

Normal PAL interlaced 1.+2. field cycle is 40ms and it is quite slow. Non interlaced PAL frame around 20ms, also quite slow.  With 50ms/div horizontal width is 0.7s.

[nctnico]

Don't just think about PAL (does that still exist?) but TFT screens are usually driven using a pixel clock and hsync/vsync signals. These vsync and hsync pulses can be extremely narrow and have relatively long periods.

@Siglent: Excellent news!

[rf-loop]

Don't just think about PAL (does that still exist?) but TFT screens are usually driven using a pixel clock and hsync/vsync signals. These vsync and hsync pulses can be extremely narrow and have relatively long periods.

@Siglent: Excellent news!

Can you give some  signal timing and level information about signal what you think simplified so that I can do some demonstration. Example  about these "extremely narrow" and "relative long periods"  for this kind of use where slow horizontal speed + peak detect is needed.

[nctnico]

Put the oscilloscope in roll mode or a very slow sweep setting like 100ms/div and create single 12ns pulses by triggering the function generator manually.

[rf-loop]

Put the oscilloscope in roll mode or a very slow sweep setting like 100ms/div and create single 12ns pulses by triggering the function generator manually.

Peak mode do not work 100ms/div or slower, as told previously.

Earlier you tell something about TFT monitors and vsync and hsync pulses and guite long pulse periods and narrow pulses. Is this something what can do with 12ns pulses trigged manually  from signal generator.

With 50ms/div even using 7k memory 12ns pulses are  too wide for finding any kind of limits (with 300MHz model).  I can (with reliable specs) do 4ns pulses  and also these are too wide for find limits for example trigger reliability in peak detect mode.  These I can run using 10ns - 999ms periods. 

[tautech]

SDS2000 conversation shifted from:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/professional-scope-purchasing-criteria/msg567801/#msg567801

ha i think my usage environment temperature fluctuates badly

so when it does a self calibrate, does it show a prompt? like "please save your work, autocalibration in xx seconds" or there is a manual option?

If "Quick Cal' is enabled and V/div is changed to some degree, Quick Cal will operate.
There is no warning Quick Cal will happen, IME it is initiated by user changes to Channel attenuation.
It displays a message: "Doing Quick Calibration" instantly for 2 seconds and informs the user with beeps. This Quick Calibration process is very quick.
I am not aware that Quick Cal operates ramdomly, only after changes to attenuation settings.

Self Cal is a manually operated feature that takes a minute or so to complete.

[rf-loop]

As previously told Siglent SDS2000 series Mask test (Pass/Fail) is fast. It is hardware based.
SDS2000 maximum waveform update rate is 110k waveforms/s.  (peak value is ~114 - 115kwfm/s)

Many oscilloscopes have software based mask test and they are many times really slow or even more slow.
If they are slow they are not good tool for hunting some rare exeptions in signal under test.
Fast mask test is one nice and powerful tool for finding glitches and other kind of exeptions.

I have now tested more deeply and accurate this feature and simply, it run Mask test as fast as it can acquire without mask test. Also if mask test result is pass or fail it do not affect speed at all.

Result is quite nice. 

If look what Agilent/Keysight tell (

http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5990-3269EN.pdf   
(but it need of course note that these Agilent infinii series scopes mask test is much more advanced than this what is in this Siglent. But speed...

 Agilent:

"Test up to 270,000 waveforms per second with the industry’s fastest hardware-accelerated mask testing technology"

"  Maximum test rate
5000, 6000, 7000 Series: Up to 100,000 waveforms tested per second
3000 and 4000 X-Series: Up to 270,000 waveforms tested per second
2000 X-Series: Up to 50,000 waveforms tested per second
6000 X-Series: Up to 130,000 waveforms tested per second"

Published in USA, April 9, 2014
5990-3269EN

Related to this,  Siglent 110,000 waveforms mask test speed is not at all bad.


Attached images have test run example where is mask for 3 pulse  and signal have 3 pulse so that mask test pass and picture show also Trig Out.
Other image one of three pulses are missing and every turn signal fails. Picture show also signal from Pass/fail output.



Siglent test mask is 700x208 bit mask. (visible area is  700 horizontally  x 200 vertically)

For opening mask file:
Take example Hex editor Neo
Set view for Binary, (16bit)Word, Display Colums=13, byteorder LittleEndian
With these settings you see bitmask as "image" how it is on the scope TFT. (leftmost 8 bits are go out from TFT top side).

Last attached file is this used test mask .RGU file.
It is attached as txt file. Just rename it so that remove .txt and it can load to scope. 
(Mask3.RGU.TXT --->  Mask3.RGU)

[rf-loop]

This is not fair comparison because Rigol DS1000Z is entry level scope with much more low price than Siglent SDS2000.

I run same kind of Mask test (pass/fail) with Rigol (mask shape etc do not mean anything in this kind of test)

When signal fail with mask Rigol test speed (and waveform update rate) is 1 waveform in one second.

In this case Siglent is 110000 times more fast.