Siglent They filed a "wrongful trademark claim"

[rx8pilot]

Well, I guess OldSchoolTechCorner just logged in.....

[timb]

Well, I guess OldSchoolTechCorner just logged in.....

Haha, was just about to post that.

[OldSchoolTechCorner]

Well, I guess OldSchoolTechCorner just logged in.....

Yep back, been working on a project and haven't had time to come on here, now I do have some leeway.

[rx8pilot]

My wife reads novels for entertainment. I will stick to this charming thread, periodically throwing in my little opinions for for some extras spice.

[OldSchoolTechCorner]

Actually I was under the impression OP listed as Used but "as new" or "mint". It appears he advertised it as "New - other" which explains it may be missing a box or such but not used in any way, and I would expect also comes with a full warranty. Also, he listed it under a commercial trading account, not a Joe Bloggs getting rid of his stuff. I can fully understand how Siglent had him marked as an unauthorised trader. OP also states he thinks the product is really good and he is only upgrading to the next model up because he is so impressed with the Siglent. If that is the case then it has clearly been pretty well used, surely?

Having said that, the lack of ANY second hand Siglent stuff on ebay concerned me and if they are rigging ebay that way then it is seriously bad form. I did think however that maybe the Siglent stuff is so good perhaps everyone who owns it just holds on to it?  A second hand market needs to be made for this stuff. I think a lot of us hobbyists are kinda hoarders and so if we paid full whack we hold onto it, especially as we know the history of our own stuff. The plethora of big name stuff on the second hand market is mostly due to commercial disposals and volume (and great deals compared to astronomical MRPs)

OldSchool' got a really good deal out of this with the free handheld scope. Now I don't think he deserved it  But that is nothing to do with this and is only because he paid over the odds for a HP3458A and didn't join up with TiN and provide EEVBlog entertainment with him repairing the damn thing! He sold it to never be seen again  (I think it was out of his depth to be fair!) 

I sold that HP3458A, could have repaired it, had similar issues TiN had with his and to the point wasn't cost effective, rather then throw around 3k into it for something that don't really have the need for and have a 7 1/2 digit meter already, dump it instead. Don't worry have more restorations coming have two Keithley 2001 and 2015 that going to restored and I am keeping them, plus they fit on the bench.   

[AlxDroidDev]

Maybe their are only 1 or 2 fakes because they are so proactive?

Maybe, maybe not... we'll never know, will we? Not even Siglent will know! 

[tooki]

Can we please just lock this thread?  The dead horse has been kicked to the point where it is just a bloody smear on the ground.

Yes, please!!!!!

[PlainName]

Not going to waste any more words on you

Followed by a HUGE number of words! :O

[Macbeth]

Can we please just lock this thread?  The dead horse has been kicked to the point where it is just a bloody smear on the ground.

Yes, please!!!!!

Nooo!!!

"Ladies and gentlemen... in the red corner we have Siglents Sockpuppets... and in the Tech Corner we have OldSchool'..." ding! ding! ding!        

[OldSchoolTechCorner]

This is more likely the last post to this thread, as at this point it is beating a dead horse to a bloody mess, but I have to get this out.

This one directed to AKA RobertBG and people like him that believe they are special and above anyone else. Pretty sure he the one that f##k people over as well and leave anyone a negative for any reason without a care in the world and more likely a scammer as well, as he seem to know a lot about how to screw other over and what to do, but claims to hate them? Plus he only seem to see the world as black and white and not for what it really is. No didn't commit slander and libel towards them. It clear as day what they did. What you did earlier to me was. I dealt with his type many time and they are the worst to deal with.

Companies like Siglent and others don't do these moves as mistakes. They do shady practices knowing they can get away with it, then when they get caught they apologize and pretend they won't do it again, or place blame on someone else, till get it sweep under the rug and they do the same again, or find another loophole. They been around for a very long time, they done business with Lecroy and even B&K, they know damn well the rules and even have a headquarters based in the USA. Price fixing/control is highly illegal here in the states as well as filing a false "IP claim" to use for price fixing, as it also consider perjury. Yes I know exactly what the meaning is. These guys as well as other companies, most large corporations are more crooked than a politician. They are far from being innocent and know exactly what the F##k they are doing. Rigol also done this before as well. That the issue these Chinese companies as well as others don't like to play by the rules and will get away with what they can. Then they ether pay you off, hire fixers to make it look like they did no wrong, or have people, or employees sign up for accounts to give false reviews on their products, or shame others, or all the above. Which Siglent in the past has been also caught doing as well. Hence "sock puppets" comments a few mentions. I know the game well, I dealt with several scammers, small and large corporation and the shit they get away with will make most sick to their stomach and shock them. In some cases you have to deal with them, but know it like doing business with the devil, or getting F##k in the end somewhere. That the real world unfortunately.

[PlainName]

Then they ether pay you off,

You could have refused to play that game on a point of principle. That would, as a byproduct, have prevented RobertBG's insinuation that you started this for free kit...

[OldSchoolTechCorner]

Then they ether pay you off,

You could have refused to play that game on a point of principle. That would, as a byproduct, have prevented RobertBG's insinuation that you started this for free kit...

It not that simple as was offered it for nothing in return and if I took the court they would have claim to offer to correct to try to correct the mistake and that it was a mistake. Plus never made a agreement with them written, or verbal. Reason thread is still up. Taking them to court would be a process and reason I started thread was to see if they did same to others as notice lack of sold listing and also notice two other listings that were also pulled at the same time.

They did what they did, wasn't made up and they clearly admitted to it claiming it was a simple mistake, which believe is complete bullshit as they have no right to enforce there policies on eBay on any 3rd party seller and then request you to rise price. It a common practice as they are not the first and another Chinese's company did the same two years ago and they reverse the IP claim within minutes as soon as I caught them and sent a email to them and for same reason. The difference with Siglent is they try to stick with the IP claim and tried to get me to rise price even though the PM. The first time the listing was pulled I let it slide and relisted it, as they did it twice, not once. I had it listed as used at first and was pulled and then relisted it again as new other before thinking it was eBay and had something to do with the listing, or wording, to find out it was due to a false IP claim they filed and used a DMCA takedown notice to affirm trademark. Yes item was sold before listing was pulled and they know that as well, the issue is the way they when about it and any IP claim put permanent restrictions on account if not removed, as taken very serious and they didn't respond to email to get IP claim removed as I requested, so thread was started to force them to remove claim and to see if it happen to others.

[PlainName]

Then they ether pay you off,

You could have refused to play that game on a point of principle. That would, as a byproduct, have prevented RobertBG's insinuation that you started this for free kit...

It not that simple as was offered it for nothing in return and if I took the court they would have claim to offer to correct to try to correct the mistake and that it was a mistake. Plus never made a agreement with them written, or verbal.

Hmmm? What's court got to do with it? It's not "accept a kickback OR take them to court". You could just say to them, "I appreciate your offer but I'd prefer not to accept a freebie, thanks." There, job done and your hands are unsullied.

Note that I am not suggesting that you should have done that - I, for instance, would probably have taken their arm off at the shoulder in my haste. But if you're complaining about the 'pay off' game then that is an option open to you if you feel strongly about it. And, as I pointed out, it also kills off any nasty remarks as to motive.

[OldSchoolTechCorner]

Then they ether pay you off,

You could have refused to play that game on a point of principle. That would, as a byproduct, have prevented RobertBG's insinuation that you started this for free kit...

It not that simple as was offered it for nothing in return and if I took the court they would have claim to offer to correct to try to correct the mistake and that it was a mistake. Plus never made a agreement with them written, or verbal.

Hmmm? What's court got to do with it? It's not "accept a kickback OR take them to court". You could just say to them, "I appreciate your offer but I'd prefer not to accept a freebie, thanks." There, job done and your hands are unsullied.

Note that I am not suggesting that you should have done that - I, for instance, would probably have taken their arm off at the shoulder in my haste. But if you're complaining about the 'pay off' game then that is an option open to you if you feel strongly about it. And, as I pointed out, it also kills off any nasty remarks as to motive.

I get that point, but only accept it as they removed the false claims the put on account correcting the mistake. The scope was for the week hassle as they claimed and phone calls back and forth. Thread still remain up, as never promised to take it down. So wasn't paid off, but maybe is consider a kickback. But it is what it is, still don't have to agree with the matter. 

[miguelvp]

Not that simple. (edit: replying to dunkemhigh)

OldSchoolTechCorner's Ebay account was repaired so he is not out of anything other than the time he had to dedicate to doing that. So a lawsuit would probably not go forward.

On the other hand, Ebay legal have more choices on the matter since companies filling wrong trademark claims will hurt their bottom line.

So it's not like Siglent got away just by sending a gift for the trouble, that might only take care of reparation of damages against OldSchool although he probably could pursue reparation on time spent but I would think that's not worth it.

What will Ebay do now or in the future is up to them, if they deem the practices are hurting their business or wasting their resources they might take action.

Edit: Just to add that because of OldSchool to sitting in the corner (no pun intended) now Ebay legal dept is aware of the situation so kuddos to him for bringing it up while trying to get his account straighten up in the process.

[OldSchoolTechCorner]

Not that simple. (edit: replying to dunkemhigh)

OldSchoolTechCorner's Ebay account was repaired so he is not out of anything other than the time he had to dedicate to doing that. So a lawsuit would probably not go forward.

On the other hand, Ebay legal have more choices on the matter since companies filling wrong trademark claims will hurt their bottom line.

So it's not like Siglent got away just by sending a gift for the trouble, that might only take care of reparation of damages against OldSchool although he probably could pursue reparation on time spent but I would think that's not worth it.

What will Ebay do now or in the future is up to them, if they deem the practices are hurting their business or wasting their resources they might take action.

Edit: Just to add that because of OldSchool to sitting in the corner (no pun intended) now Ebay legal dept is aware of the situation so kuddos to him for bringing it up while trying to get his account straighten up in the process.

Exactly

[OldSchoolTechCorner]

Hmm... I wonder if I should be able to list all the goodies I got from TopLoser as "New - Other", after all they are all customer returns. Lot's of them without any immediately identifiable fault, the rest of them I have repaired the faults. But lots of them have full boxes, manuals, and those screen protectors so "as new"

Really, I don't want any hassle and as a third party I can't possibly list them as "New - anything" because I have no contract with the original manufacturer to have them fixed by them if anything goes wrong.

So I can only sell as "Used" - and "tested/working" or whatever.

OP clearly got a good use out of the AWG - I mean he loved it that much he wanted the next model up. Just because he didn't stick his soldering iron in it or spatter it with flux doesn't means it's NEW. nope... That would imply an equal calibration cert and warranty as the equivalent brand new unused item.

OP clearly over embellished his ebay description and even added silly little dust covers on the BNC's to make out he treated it like a 16 year old virgin. 

Of course we can all see through that stuff, but maybe people who don't speak English are not so wised up. Hence the ebay category - which when it comes down to it OP failed on. Just like Dave appears to have failed on by selling an old scope as Used (but working) rather than For parts only. Wiser sellers have told Dave that there is nothing you can do and can only cover yourself with parts only by ebay standards.

Lets not forget OP has over 2000 ebay sales with a trading account so knows what he's doing.

It was actually new as had two of them, one I sold months back along with a scope with no issues as they didn't take those down and the second one in this thread. The one in the thread was new, never been used, or have any hours on it at all. Even with that said I listed it as used in mint condition at first here and on eBay. Listing was removed without reason first time around, so I relisted it as new other and listed condition in description, thinking it was a eBay issue. Then sold it days later and a week goes by and received a notice about the DMCA takedown and restriction. That when I called and found out what really happen and that Siglent sent a legal notice to eBay.

Actually the buyer got a good deal on it as sold it cheap considering what I paid for it and it's condition and being t he fact it was truly new. It was actually treated it like a 16 year old virgin and not toss around and not overblown. Not going to take a huge lost ether considering it pretty much new. If anything my trading record beside the couple of issues years and years ago and one of guy tried scamming me after two years of owning it and reason he was threaten, he is a scammer, as he done the same to a few others, they just not on the forum yet and he a admin, My record is pretty much flawless with over 2100 transactions and another 8k on another account, not easy to do and yes do know fully well exactly what I am doing.   

I list items exactly as it is unlike most on eBay and I dealt with my fair share of scammers and crooks and received many broken items and seen some list as restored and it's far from it and 100's of cases and bullshit over the years. So I know the deal and game some play. The only different is not quiet about it and just let them get away with it, most just don't bother and that the problem and reason why these companies get away and continue to do what they do.   

[miguelvp]

Not sure what to think about "treated like a 16 year old virgin" at my age I'm not attracted to them at all, but there are tons of creeps out there, so I don't think it's a good analogy for handled with extreme care.

Just saying

[Macbeth]

I seem to remember that ebay used to have a "Used - mint condition" category years ago, but they got rid of it for some reason. Because their lawyers no doubt told them there is no legal definition of "mint". Yeah, we all know what it means. Nowadays I've noticed sellers list as used and then give their own grade out of 10 and a description of it. But ebay will ignore that and only go on what it was listed as.

So really you could have been scammed much much worse! Somebody could have purchased it, then disputed it with ebay AND refused to return it by claiming you are being fraudulent, etc. then claiming the damn thing is a fake - and Siglent would have supported them if ebay even bothered to check (which they wouldn't, they just side with the customer every time anyway!).

Very risky selling it as "New" despite it not actually being "Used" at all...

I think anyone who sells on ebay has to up what they want not just by the ebay/paypal fees but also a good 10% for scammers ripping them off.

Better to sell on here 

[Macbeth]

Not sure what to think about "treated like a 16 year old virgin" at my age I'm not attracted to them at all, but there are tons of creeps out there, so I don't think it's a good analogy for handled with extreme care.

Just saying

Virgin as in not used. Not the attraction to them. That's your own dirty mind. Personally I would hope people who reach the age of 16 are still virgins, but not for too long, and people of your implied age (which I guess is way past your 30's) it would be really sad to still be a virgin.

[miguelvp]

I was referring to OldSchool usage of the that phrase, didn't notice you used the same terminology.

I'm past 50, so for me 16 are kids and not attractive at all. But I was stating that's not the case with everyone.

As for virgins age 16 (male or female), that was rare even when I was that age.

But I guess the term strikes me as in slave trade times or the middle ages and way before that, when people were treated as commodities.

[highlux]

I'l never buy from them.   All it takes is one thing like this to sink a company now days.   Siglent=Pack of jerks as far as I'm concerned,

[OldSchoolTechCorner]

I seem to remember that ebay used to have a "Used - mint condition" category years ago, but they got rid of it for some reason. Because their lawyers no doubt told them there is no legal definition of "mint". Yeah, we all know what it means. Nowadays I've noticed sellers list as used and then give their own grade out of 10 and a description of it. But ebay will ignore that and only go on what it was listed as.

So really you could have been scammed much much worse! Somebody could have purchased it, then disputed it with ebay AND refused to return it by claiming you are being fraudulent, etc. then claiming the damn thing is a fake - and Siglent would have supported them if ebay even bothered to check (which they wouldn't, they just side with the customer every time anyway!).

Very risky selling it as "New" despite it not actually being "Used" at all...

I think anyone who sells on ebay has to up what they want not just by the ebay/paypal fees but also a good 10% for scammers ripping them off.

Better to sell on here 

Yep that pretty much sum it up and part of the bigger issue. Granted most buyers are actually honest, only dealt with a couple bad ones. The problem is eBay doesn't care and people take advantage of there broken dispute system all the time. So you have to be very savvy to all the crap people pull not to get scam. I had one guy that bought a bitcoin miner and then 45 days later claim it didn't power on and PayPal almost gave him his money back. It worked fine and the guy was even stupid enough to ask for password to set up miner a couple days after receiving it, so was clearly obvious it he was full of shit and the fact he waited till the very last day to file a claim on a 2k plus item? With bitcoin miners for those that don't know, you use then to mine virtual coins and then trade it for real currency, which is in the description and no return for this reason and explained it to PayPal. Plus machine depreciate in value as difficulty goes up and that quick. I won case as I talk to head of PayPal instead of the regular agents as it would have been another Siglent like thread except I would have taken it further as was prepare to let another YouTube friend that does videos on eBay/PayPal that very well known and let him handle the story. After talking to the head supervisor, buyer case was reverse and he was banned within 15 minutes after letting them know what was going to happen, if they decide in his favor when it was point blank obvious he was scamming me and proof was he was still mining with it and the fact he asked for the password and was in the eBay messages?

I hate that I, or anyone that has to go though this extend, but you have to, otherwise these large companies will just screw people over and not bat a eye and get worst in time. It happen all the time. The sad thing about it is most just back down and except the screwing and these companies know that and even plan for it. Reason they rather for example settle a class action suit in some case then fix the serious design flaw in a product. It cheaper for them.   

 

[OldSchoolTechCorner]

I was referring to OldSchool usage of the that phrase, didn't notice you used the same terminology.

I'm past 50, so for me 16 are kids and not attractive at all. But I was stating that's not the case with everyone.

As for virgins age 16 (male or female), that was rare even when I was that age.

But I guess the term strikes me as in slave trade times or the middle ages and way before that, when people were treated as commodities.

Actually that the reason why I used it was a response to his quote.

[PlainName]

What will Ebay do now or in the future is up to them

I suspect not a lot if Siglent are moving more than a few items - Ebay will make more from their cut on high price items than they lose appeasing the periodic seller of second hand stuff.