Siglent They filed a "wrongful trademark claim"

[Ian.M]

All shilling for, or being a raving fanboi apologist for Siglent does is convince more of us there's something strange going on, and making it more likely that any future price maintenance irregularities wont go unnoticed.   Siglent China need to avoid any further 'accidents' to regain credibility.   

Of course we are going to hold the OEM to a higher standard than a small general equipment dealer.  If the dealer screws you over, you can take it up with the manufacturer, but if an overseas manufacturer screws you over, you are FUBARed.

[mackek2]

I don't understand the fixation with the OP by this two.

And btw don't refer to a forum member as a tool.
The only ones attacking anyone is you both attacking the OP and missing the points entirely.

I don't think I have attacked OP at all, simply called him out on his BS.

What matters here is that Siglent has a policy in controlling grey market products by filing false trademark claims which is illegal. They can't say to take down a listing because the product is not theirs and is a counterfeit device using their trademark.

No, they did not do this. There is no evidence that they did this.

If I buy an used piece of test equipment that is still under warranty I really don't want to have to deal with the hassle to track down if the serial number originated from an Authorized distributor or not.

So the problem is not really solved, so thank you guys for reviving this thread because Siglent still needs to explain if they will support their products regardless of the origin.

A lot of companies will not support grey market products. Grey markets destroy companies bottom line, so lots of companies do everything they can to limit them and do not support products purchased through grey markets.

[tautech]

All shilling for, or being a raving fanboi apologist for Siglent does is convince more of us there's something strange going on, and making it more likely that any future price maintenance irregularities wont go unnoticed.   Siglent China need to avoid any further 'accidents' to regain credibility.   

Of course we are going to hold the OEM to a higher standard than a small general equipment dealer.  If the dealer screws you over, you can take it up with the manufacturer, but if an overseas manufacturer screws you over, you are FUBARed.

You overlook the world is a small place these days and while one OEM might be "overseas" for you it's not for others. It all comes down to the quality of your local representation and their relationship with the OEM.

[mackek2]

If Siglent wants to send me a scope or some other gear for defending them, sure, I'd be happy to accept. Then you can bet your ass I'll defend them to the end, I'll sell out in a heartbeat. But I just like debating, and this thread was interesting, so here I am. It was a slow day at work.

[dr.diesel]

You should run for office, fit right in.

[miguelvp]

I don't understand the fixation with the OP by this two.

And btw don't refer to a forum member as a tool.
The only ones attacking anyone is you both attacking the OP and missing the points entirely.

I don't think I have attacked OP at all, simply called him out on his BS.

What matters here is that Siglent has a policy in controlling grey market products by filing false trademark claims which is illegal. They can't say to take down a listing because the product is not theirs and is a counterfeit device using their trademark.

No, they did not do this. There is no evidence that they did this.

If I buy an used piece of test equipment that is still under warranty I really don't want to have to deal with the hassle to track down if the serial number originated from an Authorized distributor or not.

So the problem is not really solved, so thank you guys for reviving this thread because Siglent still needs to explain if they will support their products regardless of the origin.

A lot of companies will not support grey market products. Grey markets destroy companies bottom line, so lots of companies do everything they can to limit them and do not support products purchased through grey markets.

On the video the CEO mentions they have been doing it for years and this was their first time they targeted an individual seller, so that does mean to me that it's their policy to file false claims when a distributor is selling outside of their area and competing unfairly with authorized dealers on that area.

Companies should need to control their distribution channels, say Cannon lenses for example. Why would lenses that didn't pass their QA be sold to any third party to reclaim some of the production cost? they should just destroy them so they don't end up in customers hands.

Why would they have problems with their own distributors trying to sell to other markets at a lower price?

That's one thing I don't miss from Europe where only you could buy at authorized dealers and not allowing competition among vendors. Even Bars/Restaurants will fix prices, pretty much all industries were like that. Not sure how is it now and if that is still allowed in there.

But in the US market is illegal to do that.

Btw, you haven't been as bad as RobertBG.

He looking me up on the interwebs tells tons about his personality. I just hope my daughter never dates a guy like that.

[Rasz]

Well, it's good to see Siglent has hired a few fixers to patch things up.

The very best Reputation Management fiverr has to offer!

[rx8pilot]

If Siglent wants to send me a scope or some other gear for defending them, sure, I'd be happy to accept. Then you can bet your ass I'll defend them to the end, I'll sell out in a heartbeat. But I just like debating, and this thread was interesting, so here I am. It was a slow day at work.

What would you use the scope for? What projects are you working on? What is the nature of your work (glad it is a slow day).

[kaz911]

A lot of companies will not support grey market products. Grey markets destroy companies bottom line, so lots of companies do everything they can to limit them and do not support products purchased through grey markets.

I call BS... Gary market does NOT kill bottom line - it feeds it. The product had to get out there somehow and it left the ORIGINAL factory at a price at which the factory made a profit. And the factory willingly sold it at what ever the price was.

What "Gray" market does - is it kills the distributors in countries where there is a huge price differentiation from other markets. So it does not hurt the OEM - apart from the REBATE demand from their other " sales territories" - but to be honest - if you want to sell the same product to one distributor for $1 and sell to another for $1.5 - when distributor No2 finds out No1 only paid $1 - he will be pissed no matter what. So all gray market " protection " is - is a racket to try and keep distributors from finding out what is paid in other markets for the same products. So all due to the OEM/Factory making it and making the distribution agreements and they can ONLY blame themselves.

btw - I do not have Siglent - and I never will. I find the price protection racket to much. I know many are doing it but but are usually a bit more flexible like using MAP prices or similar (Minimum Advertised Price)

[AlfBaz]

I'm amazed no one has mentioned the obvious.

It's entirely plausible that these two new "forum members" work for one of Siglent's competitors.

Siglent make a mistake in how they deal with what seems to be a legitimate issue.

An innocent party gets caught up in this "process" and has a bit of a whinge on line that gathers a lot of attention

Siglent respond with a somewhat dubious excuse (dubious to us, but in a different culture with very different ways of doing business, maybe not so dubious)

Nobody buys the excuse and the shitstorm continues

The CEO fly's out to visit a blogger in Australia to apologise, assuring this wont happen again and in the process winning back some ground.

Moments later the thread that caused it all is spammed with the same type of shenanigans that started the shitfight to start with, undoing the good work by siglent in trying to fix the original mistake


 

[mackek2]

If Siglent wants to send me a scope or some other gear for defending them, sure, I'd be happy to accept. Then you can bet your ass I'll defend them to the end, I'll sell out in a heartbeat. But I just like debating, and this thread was interesting, so here I am. It was a slow day at work.

What would you use the scope for? What projects are you working on? What is the nature of your work (glad it is a slow day).

I'm doing a lot of RC quadcopter/multirotor stuff lately and some lighting control (just basic pwm for leds for around my apartment). It's more of a neat to have rather than a necessity at this point, which is why I haven't bought one yet, although I'll probably go with a rigol when I do. I'm a support engineer for a big tech company. Nothing to do with EE, it's just a hobby.

[FivePoint03]

I can't believe they asked him for the serial # before agreeing to withdraw their silly Ebay claim - guilty until proven innocent ey?

How on Earth can can they tell by looking at a picture if the equipment is fake?  This behavior is arrogant and a flagrant misuse of Ebay policy.

I would probably avoid Siglent from now on.  I often like to upgrade my gear.

[mackek2]

I'm amazed no one has mentioned the obvious.

It's entirely plausible that these two new "forum members" work for one of Siglent's competitors.

Siglent make a mistake in how they deal with what seems to be a legitimate issue.

An innocent party gets caught up in this "process" and has a bit of a whinge on line that gathers a lot of attention

Siglent respond with a somewhat dubious excuse (dubious to us, but in a different culture with very different ways of doing business, maybe not so dubious)

Nobody buys the excuse and the shitstorm continues

The CEO fly's out to visit a blogger in Australia to apologise, assuring this wont happen again and in the process winning back some ground.

Moments later the thread that caused it all is spammed with the same type of shenanigans that started the shitfight to start with, undoing the good work by siglent in trying to fix the original mistake

Or it's also possible that we saw the video and were curious what the "ebay issue" was. You know, just like we said we are (although I can't speak for RobertBG, but I have a brain stem and know reason). Although coming to defend Siglent in the face of pretty strong opposition just to besmirch their name more is also possible. Like I said, feel free to Google my account name, I use it all over the internet. You can find out where I went to school, what hobbies I have, and if you really really really wanted to you could go through my reddit history and possibly deduce where I work. Hint, it's not Siglent.

[miguelvp]

Googling your username wont be necessary, I bet RobertBG already did that 

[RobertBG]

I'm amazed no one has mentioned the obvious.

It's entirely plausible that these two new "forum members" work for one of Siglent's competitors.

Siglent make a mistake in how they deal with what seems to be a legitimate issue.

An innocent party gets caught up in this "process" and has a bit of a whinge on line that gathers a lot of attention

Siglent respond with a somewhat dubious excuse (dubious to us, but in a different culture with very different ways of doing business, maybe not so dubious)

Nobody buys the excuse and the shitstorm continues

The CEO fly's out to visit a blogger in Australia to apologise, assuring this wont happen again and in the process winning back some ground.

Moments later the thread that caused it all is spammed with the same type of shenanigans that started the shitfight to start with, undoing the good work by siglent in trying to fix the original mistake

Now I work for the competition 

Seriously theres plenty of facts to show what this tool did.

1.He Misrepresented the unit as "new other"and that caused sigilent's employee to mistakenly identify it as new.If you read Ebay's terms of service they where not out of bounds to have the add taken down.Granted it was a mistake and that was addressed.

2.He started this whole mess on the premise that Sigelent was blocking him from selling his gear and used it to get everyone riled up about things,yet he NEGLECTED to mention that it was already sold.

People only want to see what they care to see here and that is all there is too it.I could waste more time and go back and quote all the times people failed to look at facts and then drug me through the mud for calling a spade a spade but there's no point.You simply choose to support a sleaze bag that was in the wrong because he duped you into believing his story.Rather then look into facts most here would rather throw out unfounded accusations and resort to name calling. 

[RobertBG]

I can't believe they asked him for the serial # before agreeing to withdraw their silly Ebay claim - guilty until proven innocent ey?

How on Earth can can they tell by looking at a picture if the equipment is fake?  This behavior is arrogant and a flagrant misuse of Ebay policy.

I would probably avoid Siglent from now on.  I often like to upgrade my gear.

All they had to know was that it was not new as he had represented it.It was listed as "new other" in his add.From that if you had a brain you'd realize why they asked for a serial number. 

[FivePoint03]

I can't believe they asked him for the serial # before agreeing to withdraw their silly Ebay claim - guilty until proven innocent ey?

How on Earth can can they tell by looking at a picture if the equipment is fake?  This behavior is arrogant and a flagrant misuse of Ebay policy.

I would probably avoid Siglent from now on.  I often like to upgrade my gear.

All they had to know was that it was not new as he had represented it.It was listed as "new other" in his add.From that if you had a brain you'd realize why they asked for a serial number. 

New or not new it is none of Siglents business in this case.  They have no right to control the second hand market of products that they do not own.

If I buy a brand new car tomorrow, have it delivered to me, do not drive it, and decide to sell it a week later at half the price, that's up to me.

Your presence in this discussion alarms me - you seem to have some ulterior motive I do not know about.

[AlfBaz]

Seriously theres plenty of facts to show what this tool did.

I'm sorry, but you saying something is a fact does NOT make it so

1.He Misrepresented the unit as "new other"and that caused sigilent's employee to mistakenly identify it as new.If you read Ebay's terms of service they where not out of bounds to have the add taken down.Granted it was a mistake and that was addressed.

If I buy something brand new, open it up, and for whatever reason I decide to sell it. It is nothing but "new other"

2.He started this whole mess on the premise that Sigelent was blocking him from selling his gear and used it to get everyone riled up about things,yet he NEGLECTED to mention that it was already sold.

He started the thread on October 23rd 5:21am (my time)
40 minutes later (post 18) he types...

Yes item was sold already and wasn't pulled to after the fact.

So what, precisely, did he fail to mention??
He's on an internet forum not a court of law! It's not like we all have to prepare a brief of evidence before having a rant on the internet!

People only want to see what they care to see here and that is all there is too it.I could waste more time and go back and quote all the times people failed to look at facts and then drug me through the mud for calling a spade a spade but there's no point.You simply choose to support a sleaze bag that was in the wrong because he duped you into believing his story.Rather then look into facts most here would rather throw out unfounded accusations and resort to name calling. 

Muaaa Muaaa

[Bud]

The CEO fly's out to visit a blogger in Australia to apologise,

My recollection is this is not true. The "blogger" said the CEO was on business to meet with someone else who just happened to be in the area, and kindly accepted the "blogger" invite for a talk.

[miguelvp]

...
Seriously theres plenty of facts to show what this tool did.
...
sleaze bag
...
Rather then look into facts most here would rather throw out unfounded accusations and resort to name calling. 

And calling me a troll is name calling as well.

You are still focused on the OP, the reason this thread is relevant to this community but apparently not you, was the wrongful filing by Siglent, claiming the product on Ebay was a counterfeit item which obviously was not. Adding a strike to the seller (regardless on who he is, because it could have been anyone here upgrading their equipment) for selling counterfeit equipment.

Siglent giving him the freebie was to compensate him for putting him through the hassle of a wrongful trademark claim on ebay.

That is what is relevant to me.

[miguelvp]

The CEO fly's out to visit a blogger in Australia to apologise,

My recollection is this is not true. The "blogger" said the CEO was on business to meet with someone else who just happened to be in the area, and kindly accepted the "blogger" invite for a talk.

Also, the visit was prearranged before any of this happened.

[tautech]

The CEO fly's out to visit a blogger in Australia to apologise,

My recollection is this is not true. The "blogger" said the CEO was on business to meet with someone else who just happened to be in the area, and kindly accepted the "blogger" invite for a talk.

Also, the visit was prearranged before any of this happened.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-826-siglent-ceo-eric-qin-visits-the-eevblog-lab/msg812741/#msg812741

From Dave: Eric knows this, which is why he came all the way to Australia just to meet me (no other itinerary, he flew back the next morning). 

[all_repair]

You guys need to look at the situation that the mistake was made by a new employee, and the targets were the "authorised" distributors selling outside the areas that they were not allowed to sell.  This mistake maybe repeated again in other way, as the distributors shall find all other way to sell into other areas.  It is a continuous problem in the industry, and of course is creating a lot of problems to the buyers, the distri and the OEMs.  Most suggestions made are not from practisioners.   Of course, siglent should not make this mistake.   But if you imagine yourself as an engineer and founded a company, and grow like Siglent has, and what are you going to do?  Most suggestions or comments sounded to me like people who never make any mistake either they are too perfect, or they never tried doing anything worthwhile.

[nctnico]

Regarding localised distributors: with a common European market, Ebay, Aliexpress, etc the whole idea of dividing the world between distributors is old style thinking. People trying to hold on to that model probably have no way to distinguish themselves from others so need to resort to protecting their 'livelyhood' with dubious methods.

Two decades ago semiconductor manufacturers had specific distributors for each area. Nowadays everybody sells almost all the brands.

[MT]

Believe me the counterfeiters in China would fake anything.

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http://www.naturalhealth365.com/soy_sauce.html/

Not any more!