Siglent They filed a "wrongful trademark claim"

[OldSchoolTechCorner]

What even more worst, they have yet to withdraw the false notice, which all they have to do is get in contact with eBay VERO department, which would have been the first step in trying to make it right and yesterday try to get me to raise prices before they even consider withdrawing it, clearly claiming to protect authorized dealers, to keep prices up and asking to raise price on eBay listing. They just ended up making it a lot worst for themselves by doing that as now in the process of having it forcefully removed as it was used in means for "Price fixing".

[tautech]

Dave
Now that everyone seems to have vented their spleens, would it be a good idea to lock this thread until  OldSchoolTechCorner or Siglent request YOU the thread be reopened.

Cannot the finer details of party satisfaction be settled by PM or privately?

[digsys]

Dear SIGLENT, you can add 1 more person that will never consider your products again, unless you sort out your bullshit ! Sincerely yours.

[crispy_tofu]

No, he's talking about my website and this forum, not your ad on ebay.

Sorry for the confusion.  Poor form on my part.

[OldSchoolTechCorner]

Do request the thread be sticky, so they don't just forget and continue on like nothing happen. 

[nctnico]

Dave
Now that everyone seems to have vented their spleens, would it be a good idea to lock this thread until  OldSchoolTechCorner or Siglent request YOU the thread be reopened.

Cannot the finer details of party satisfaction be settled by PM or privately?

This needs to be out in the open. Part of buying test gear is being able to sell it at some point for a reasonable price. It is clear Siglent is actively working on killing the second hand market for their test equipment. Making it right with one person isn't going to solve that. Siglent needs to show (not just promise) that they will refrain from interfering with selling used equipment now and forever.

[SeanB]

It going to take a lot more then apology, otherwise they will be looking to do this AGAIN with anyone else that puts up their used gear, am sure the same thing will happen again and again. This is not a simple mistake, as they want to play it down to be. Other listings just don't disappear magically and other shady practices used, that is mention by others.

Minimum response that they can do, will still not stop you having a criminal case against them, and if this was across state boundaries then it is a Federal court charge that will be the action. Probably will be part of the settlement handed down by the judge, along with the fine and the few people doing number plates. If it is classed as racketeering then they could lose all trademark protection along with the ban on import of the equipment from the company, which will then leave the distributors in a rather bad place.

I would suggest that they start getting all the paperwork ready for the prosecuting attorneys, and do not destroy anything that can be requested in discovery.  remember that destroying evidence merely leads to a much poorer outcome against them, and more higher up will be sharing a cell with Bernie Maddof, though they will be there to polish his shoes.

[Wuerstchenhund]

This needs to be out in the open. Part of buying test gear is being able to sell it at some point for a reasonable price. It is clear Siglent is actively working on killing the second hand market for their test equipment. Making it right with one person isn't going to solve that.

Agreed. This needs to be reported:

https://www.ftc.gov/faq/competition/report-antitrust-violation

[Wuerstchenhund]

Dave
Now that everyone seems to have vented their spleens, would it be a good idea to lock this thread until  OldSchoolTechCorner or Siglent request YOU the thread be reopened.

Cannot the finer details of party satisfaction be settled by PM or privately?

Why? To make it quietly go away so that they can move on as if nothing happened?

This is not about giving a customer some lacking support experience, we're talking about mis-using the takedown system to rig pricing in Siglent's favor, which potentially is a federal crime.

And why should the perpetrator (Siglent) have any say in if this thread can be re-opened?

I can imagine that at the moment it must be pretty frustrating to be a Siglent reseller but you should take that frustration up with them. It's not everyone else's job to keep stumm.

[OldSchoolTechCorner]

Dave
Now that everyone seems to have vented their spleens, would it be a good idea to lock this thread until  OldSchoolTechCorner or Siglent request YOU the thread be reopened.

Cannot the finer details of party satisfaction be settled by PM or privately?

This needs to be out in the open. Part of buying test gear is being able to sell it at some point for a reasonable price. It is clear Siglent is actively working on killing the second hand market for their test equipment. Making it right with one person isn't going to solve that. Siglent needs to show (not just promise) that they will refrain from interfering with selling used equipment now and forever.

Agreed!!

[EEVblog]

Dave
Now that everyone seems to have vented their spleens, would it be a good idea to lock this thread until  OldSchoolTechCorner or Siglent request YOU the thread be reopened.

No, I think that is a bad idea. There is nothing in this thread that warrants closing it, if anything it's an important issue that is being discussed.

Cannot the finer details of party satisfaction be settled by PM or privately?

No one is stopping them from doing that already. If they chose to air that publicly, that's their choice.

You obviously have a vested interest in stopping this thread being a Siglent dealer.
Actually, so do I, Siglent are a paying advertiser on my website, have given me free gear for review, and more free gear is one the way so I've heard. But I'm not going to shut the thread down because of that, that would be very poor form.

[markce]

No, I think that is a bad idea. There is nothing in this thread that warrants closing it, if anything it's an important issue that is being discussed.

Thanks Dave!
I've read the whole thread with interest. Dilbert for free! And it's not as much the initial mistake, but even more the lack of adequate response from Siglent as a company. They do not seem to realize that this case is read world-wide and an initial very weak response from a local representative is just not enough. He is not responsible. The 'mistake', if it was one, could well have been resolved in a day, or two.

[SeanB]

Could have been resolved before it happened if they had actually had an IP lawyer looking at the law in the US and telling them that doing this would not end well. Look at how the fallout of the VW issue is spreading out, including other manufacturers now, and which likely will lead to some serious changes in how companies act in the USA. Might also lead to some shake up in the agencies that are supposed to police the acts in the first place, in that they did not actually check the data and verify it.

[Karel]

My guess is that our employee ...

You guess about what your employee did? Really? Why don't you ask him/her and then come back here with the right info?

[Karel]

Dave
Now that everyone seems to have vented their spleens, would it be a good idea to lock this thread until  OldSchoolTechCorner or Siglent request YOU the thread be reopened.

Cannot the finer details of party satisfaction be settled by PM or privately?

Your kidding, right? Or you try to do some damage control, huh?

Name and shame...

[Pinkus]

I select and purchase all my equipment always with the thought in mind to potentionally sell them used after some time and purchase something better.
I was often able to make some good deals (purchase / sell) on Rigol and Agilent equipment: often I used a device for only two years and could sell it for almost the price I purchased it for. But even if not, the used devices were always sold for a reasonable price.

As I know upfront, I want to sell the stuff after one or two or maybe three years, I would not purchase any device from a manufacturer where I suspect, that the devices will diminish in value a lot.

In the past 6-12 months Siglent was building up some reputation and I made the mental note to check also on Siglent devices when a new purchase would be due. I have not done this yet and maybe I would not be able to find what I need .... but at least I would have looked at Siglents portfolio in detail.
This mental note was now erased. For me, there will be no interest in Siglents devices for a long time now as I know selling a used device will be a problem. Maybe in 4 or 5 years again....if there not doomed by then.

[Macbeth]

 

Maybe stop concentrating on rigging the market and instead getting on with fixing bugged firmware.

[joesixpack]

I just posted a one star review of the Siglent SDG5122 on Amazon, sold by Siglent.  It should be posted soon.

Really, all we have to do is start posting one star reviews on Amazon for these products.  I think it should be our duty to inform prospective buyers that they can only buy at full retail, and if they dare sell their used equipment on eBay they will get slammed with a false trademark/DCMA takedown and they can loose their eBay account.

I thought I would start posting auctions with the OPs pictures with verbiage that basically says the same thing.  Like a title of "Siglent SDG5122 $200 AMAZING READ THIS NOW."

There are more of us than them. 

[c4757p]

Don't abuse the system in response to them abusing the system, it just looks petty.

[mcinque]

My guess is that our employee

Again, it's just a mistake made by a young employee (maybe inexperienced, ill and poor, with children to feed, just to keep the story more heartbreaking).
Although these puerile excuses were true, it would be a huge mistake to give that kind of role to an inexperienced employee.

You simply failed: admit it, make your excuses to the user and to the community, explain your plan to avoid this happen again and give something to the user to balance his (probably) lost sale.

Any other move (especially accuse a single employee for the entire story) will end up in more shit and shame on you, trust me.

[ebastler]

Dave
Now that everyone seems to have vented their spleens, would it be a good idea to lock this thread until  OldSchoolTechCorner or Siglent request YOU the thread be reopened.

Cannot the finer details of party satisfaction be settled by PM or privately?

You seem to be overlooking that the indignation expressed in this thread is not just due to the way Siglent have mishandled this particular used instrument offer by OldSchoolTechCorner. That particular case is indeed best settled via PM, and that is probably ongoing.

But beyond that, Siglent is abusing pretended "counterfeit" or "wrongful trademark" claims to suppress instrument offers by independent dealers. This seems to be a systematic effort from Siglent, and it is quite unacceptable in my view. I have not seen any statement here from Siglent (China or US) which would try to explain why they consider this practice lawful and acceptable.

[OldSchoolTechCorner]

I just posted a one star review of the Siglent SDG5122 on Amazon, sold by Siglent.  It should be posted soon.

Really, all we have to do is start posting one star reviews on Amazon for these products.  I think it should be our duty to inform prospective buyers that they can only buy at full retail, and if they dare sell their used equipment on eBay they will get slammed with a false trademark/DCMA takedown and they can loose their eBay account.

I thought I would start posting auctions with the OPs pictures with verbiage that basically says the same thing.  Like a title of "Siglent SDG5122 $200 AMAZING READ THIS NOW."

There are more of us than them.

I won't do that, two wrongs don't make a right. 

[Ian.M]

As Siglent appear to believe that used equipment made by them should only be advertised for sale at the full RRP, its only fair that they should offer to buy the offending piece of equipment from the O.P. at full RRP.   Also, they should give a public notice to EBAY that all DCMA takedown requests for items that were not fraudulently described as being sold by a registered dealer were invalid and that any actions taken by EBAY as a result of the invalid DCMA requests should be reversed at Siglent's expense. 

It would not of course absolve Siglent of criminal liability for their alleged actions, or exclude further compensation, but would at least clearly signal that their intentions are to act within the law from this point forward.

[jancumps]

I just posted a one star review of the Siglent SDG5122 on Amazon, sold by Siglent...

Please don't.

[joesixpack]

Suit yourself.  Perhaps I'm cynical.  Given my experiences and watching other people outsource production in China, I have learned that the cultural and ethical framework is not that same as in the western world.  An employee at Siglent China would not independently start submitting DCMA/trademark requests.  I can also see that when asked about it from Steve, a worker would apologize and take the blame rather than implicate their managers, letting them save face.   

It is obvious to me that Siglent China wanted to wipe out the lower priced listings on EBay, and it wasn't a mistake, hence the request to raise his price. 

I also think Steve @ Siglent America is now in the difficult position of trying to figure out what happened while having a conversation with the people who set forth the policy.  They won't care -- they were successful in eliminating competing sales, and they only have one person complaining.  Haha stupid Laowai.

Remember -- so far the resolution proposed by Steve is a phone call, in a few days.  Not: 1) we're sorry, we will withdraw the complaint, or 2) we're sorry, re-list the item and we promise we won't submit another fraudulent and abusive claim, but only for you, or 3) we're sorry, we will stop submitting fraudulent complaints to ebay.
 
They will only change if their sales suffer.  If I were shopping for some T&E equipment (and I actively am) I would like to know that Siglent is actively trying to restrict my ability to sell my equipment when I want to trade up.