Siglent They filed a "wrongful trademark claim"

[marshallh]

I know everyone loves to jump on a good mob and torches bandwagon, but remember companies are large organizations of many people, many of whom are involved in completely different things. Would urge everybody to wait for the final verdict before passing judgement. Whether or not the idiot(s) that made this boneheaded policy are taken to task or if Siglent stands by this decision.

[FlyingHacker]

to Siglent. 
Don't they understand that their products depreciate? 

Not just depreciation. I have the right to buy however many Siglent units I want for whatever price I pay, and then resell them for any price I choose. I do not need a license from Siglent, or a contract, or anything else. I only need that if I expect to buy the original products at wholesale prices. I can sell whatever I want at a loss, even new. Free Market. Not company controlled market.

Anyone claiming otherwise is full of steaming electrons.

Actually many companies have contractual deals that if you buy their products wholesale you have to sell it at a minimum price and above. That is perfectly legal.

Yes, that is (kinda) legal. But this ONLY applies if you buy things wholesale, and this becomes a contract law issue. They can't say squat about reselling things you bought retail. They cannot even suggest a price.

FTC handles Price Fixing:

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/dealings-competitors/price-fixing
https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/anticompetitive-practices

[Muttley Snickers]

I just checked and there is no used SIGLENT equipment on ebay.  This definitely needs to be reported to the United States Attorney Generals office.

I found one, is he also in trouble, what say you Siglent...gonsky

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Siglent-SDS1102CM-100MHz-2-Channel-DSO-Oscilloscope-/110756419542?hash=item19c998d7d6:m:mFcRE8iFAXy-ekGxQrLgHGg

[zapta]

My reply back to them.

That where your wrong. It clearly was marked and sold as used. I don't have to be registered reseller with you guy selling a used item that I sold to upgrade to the newer model. I can sell it at what ever cost I want to and don't have a contract with you guys. I be contacting eBay legal department tomorrow, as you clearly misused the DMCA notice for alleged trademark infringement to manipulate and control the market.

Don't worry, it will get resolved in a few days, Siglent will send you a free DSO and everybody will be happy.

[FlyingHacker]

I know everyone loves to jump on a good mob and torches bandwagon, but remember companies are large organizations of many people, many of whom are involved in completely different things. Would urge everybody to wait for the final verdict before passing judgement. Whether or not the idiot(s) that made this boneheaded policy are taken to task or if Siglent stands by this decision.

Definitely. We need an official response, and a reinstatement of the original auction. We don't know that Siglent did anything wrong. However, the message that was posted was definitely not a good reply.

[nidlaX]

I seriously doubt this is a "price fixing" scheme in action.

They are attempting to manipulate a third party and force him to sell their (used) product at a higher price. If that isn't, what is?

Playing dumb and pretending that your customer's "Used" listing was actually "New" seems like a pretty weak (stupid) attempt at "price manipulation". I'm willing to believe it's a misunderstanding until Siglent USA makes a statement in light of the facts of the matter.

[bills]

Yes I see free things coming your way.

[fivefish]

WOW. WTF.



so Siglent is saying you can't resell used Siglent equipment you own, because you're "not a registered reseller" and if you price your used equipment lower than a brand new equipment, they'll label you as selling fakes?  WOOOOOWWWWWW!!!!!!

Actually many companies have contractual deals that if you buy their products wholesale you have to sell it at a minimum price and above. That is perfectly legal.

I don't think the OP is a reseller, just a private party selling his own used equipment.

So if I don't want my Rigol anymore (for example), I have the right to sell it to someone else at whatever asking price I decide... my price could be higher, could be lower than an equivalent  brand new equipment.  Nobody can tell you you're not allowed to re-sell what you own. It's not illegal to sell used items.

[c4757p]

Playing dumb and pretending that your customer's "Used" listing was actually "New" seems like a pretty weak (stupid) attempt at "price manipulation". I'm willing to believe it's a misunderstanding until Siglent USA makes a statement in light of the facts of the matter.

In the alleged PM - keep in mind none of us have proof that PM is even real, of course... - they seem to make it pretty clear that they knew. "First, we claim it because that you are not our registered reseller. Second, your marked price ... is lower... we have to control the price. And I didn't see that you marked your item as a used one. So we affirmed that your item as a fake."

Other than one "I didn't see" that doesn't read particularly truthful to me, it's a pretty direct claim that they did it on purpose.

Still, let's see how the company as a whole handles it. Could be the decision of one utter moron, let's see if they stand by their moron.

[sleemanj]

Note that the PM was sent from the "Marketing Department"

We all know what that means.

[TheSteve]

I wasn't too much of a fan of Siglent before but now it is clear we all need to avoid anything they make, it seems they have bigger issues then just rust.

[OldSchoolTechCorner]

Playing dumb and pretending that your customer's "Used" listing was actually "New" seems like a pretty weak (stupid) attempt at "price manipulation". I'm willing to believe it's a misunderstanding until Siglent USA makes a statement in light of the facts of the matter.

In the alleged PM - keep in mind none of us have proof that PM is even real, of course... - they seem to make it pretty clear that they knew. "First, we claim it because that you are not our registered reseller. Second, your marked price ... is lower... we have to control the price. And I didn't see that you marked your item as a used one. So we affirmed that your item as a fake."

Other than one "I didn't see" that doesn't read particularly truthful to me, it's a pretty direct claim that they did it on purpose.

Still, let's see how the company as a whole handles it. Could be the decision of one utter moron, let's see if they stand by their moron.

As shocking as it is, it as real as it gets, get a moderator to confirm PM it if needed. They sent the PM, not edited and just print screened. Not only that also confirm it with legal team of eBay they sent the notice and reason well before starting the thread, I was actually pretty shocked, as before that had no issues with them I bought a Siglent sdg2122x just a couple days ago. When I saw the DMCA I first assume it was a reseller 3rd party, or eBay software, then I called them to resolve issue and confirm it was sent from them directly.   

Thank you for your order!
Here is copy of your order for you to review with estimated ship dates.

Order# A094182
Customer# 0229566

Sold To:
Blank
Blank
Blank
US

Ship To:
Blank
Blank
Blank
US

Shipping Via: Ground

Terms: PayPal

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Qty  Product Name                      Estimated Ship Date                Price    Ext.Price
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    1  IWHMDGIFTCARD                     
      Dinner and a Movie Gift Card B    10/21/2015*                            0.00        0.00

    1  SIGLENTSDG2122X                   
      120MHz Function/Arbitrary Wave    10/29/2015*                          899.00      899.00
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                            Subtotal:    899.00
                                                                            Sales Tax:      0.00
                                                                            Shipping:      0.00
                                                                            Signature:      3.99
                                                                        -------------------------
                                                                                Total:    902.99

[OldSchoolTechCorner]

New reply but at this point doesn't matter. I know the real reasoning now and don't buy it and don't need to provide serial number and they never asked for it before DMCA notice was sent to eBay. Now I know the reason I could not find many used Siglent products that sold on eBay to based a price off of for used value. People sure not have to worry about selling a item they own and made the mistake and bought a new model as figured performance is decent for price, now regret that decision and will be calling TEquipment tomorrow and see about a exchange for a different brand.   



Re: Siglent They filed a "wrongful trademark claim"
« Sent to: OldSchoolTechCorner  on: Today at 02:39:13 PM » 
Reply

 
Quote

 
Dear OldSchoolTechCorner,
I'm sorry that I did not see the item you marked as used before.
It turned out to be a misunderstanding. We just need you provide us your serial number to verify. And we will withdraw the claim complaint.

Sincerely
SIGLENT Markrting Department

SIGLENT TECHNOLOGIES CO.,LTD

[sleemanj]

Amazed that they are replying to you in a PM but seem to be taking the "let it burn out" approach to this thread instead of putting out the building fire. 

[SteveLy]

So effectively the resale value of Siglent equipment is zero. Excellent reason not to buy.

[ataradov]

It is kind of fun to see Chinese company struggle with trademark enforcement

And yes, whatever low opinion I had about Siglent gear, it is back to 0 now.

[CrashO]

I still don't see why they would need a serial number in order to withdraw the complaint. As they now acknowledge it was marked "used", both their reasons for taking it down are now invalid.
Or are they going to take-down every private individual selling a Siglent device until set user has send in their serial number to verify ? 

There is no need (of reason) whats-ever for you to prove you are selling a legit device. It is utter ironic this claim is made by the captain of device cloning themselfs 

[DimitriP]

My reply back to them.

That where your wrong. It clearly was marked and sold as used. I don't have to be registered reseller with you guy selling a used item that I sold to upgrade to the newer model. I can sell it at what ever cost I want to and don't have a contract with you guys. I be contacting eBay legal department tomorrow, as you clearly misused the DMCA notice for alleged trademark infringement to manipulate and control the market.

Don't worry, it will get resolved in a few days, Siglent will send you a free DSO and everybody will be happy.

but make sure you like and want to keep it because you might not be able to unload it on Ebay

[zapta]

This justifies an eevblog rant episode.

[OldSchoolTechCorner]

I still don't see why they would need a serial number in order to withdraw the complaint. As they now acknowledge it was marked "used", both their reasons for taking it down are now invalid.
Or are they going to take-down every private individual selling a Siglent device until set user has send in their serial number to verify ? 

There is no need (of reason) whats-ever for you to prove you are selling a legit device. It is utter ironic this claim is made by the captain of device cloning themselfs 

They never even asked before filing the legal notice and even then you don't need to give them your serial number, as more likely they will just refuse warranty service to new owner and pictures were clear as day and clearly not a fake and listing was listed as used with my wording and pictures. I don't need them withdraw the complaint, I be on the phone with eBay legal team tomorrow and have it withdrawn myself and they already said they take false DMCA cases very serious as it's considered perjury. 

I had no issues with them before and actually bought a new piece of test gear from them and figure for the price/performance on low end was good and built quality from Dave's teardown video was good and specs was good for the money, but will never buy another Siglent again and the Siglent sdg2122x is going back to TEquipment if they allow me to and trade it for something else, even if it cost me restocking fee and double the money. People sure not have to fear selling their used items and have a company dictate a price a person can sell a used item at. If they are worry about resell value affecting new test gear prices so much, how about design a better product and support it better, with firmware updates to get rid of bug's faster. Filing legal notices against customers for reselling items at a certain price is a very bad move. 

[poorchava]

Well, this sucks for Siglent. I have one of their products (Atten brand DSO, but Siglent name's all over the place inside) and while this is not a garbage-grade or a toy, it is a weak product with alot of bugs. I have considered buying a signal generator from them when I finish my CNC mill and have some free $$$, but I think I'll save up a bit more for Rigol. They at least provide FW updates from time to time.

[Wirehead]

That last PM is just...  .. *cue fail-button noise* Seriously, they should already know of this thread and what reputation loss it will mean for them. Marketing..  Add another one to the equipment blacklist; whatever the outcome of this is. They clearly don't want to admit they were wrong, and instead go for a failed attempt to save their asses... 

[Muttley Snickers]

I am in some ways glad that this particular company has shown it's true colours before we actually purchased any of their products, but in all honesty I am also deeply saddened that good people such as tautech, rf-loop and others may be affected by this blatant stupidity on Siglents part, and these are the people in the front lines that will be stuck cleaning up this mess for a long while to come, they don't deserve this at all in my opinion.

Muttley

[Cubdriver]

Wow.     Open mouth, insert foot.  To about mid thigh.  How to win friends enemies and influence people (in a bad way).  Not good PR, guys!

-Pat

[Wuerstchenhund]

Don't worry, it will get resolved in a few days, Siglent will send you a free DSO and everybody will be happy.

I'd say unless they send him an SDS3054 it won't even start to make good the mistake they made!