Siglent They filed a "wrongful trademark claim"

[Kean]

@Tautech to take your concept further, if the equipment was photographed still sealed in an original plastic shipping bag* or maybe just a photo of the original unopened box, then it would lead credence to your claim of it appearing new even if listed as used.  But that in now way justifies the actions of Siglent which are the real crux of the issue being discussed here.

* not sure if Siglent even do that, and I'm not likely to ever find out now

[Deathwish]

Hey !, I never got caps on my unit so is it new or not .

[John Coloccia]

Tautech and Siglent itself don't seem to understand yet that a mistake in enforcing a crooked policy doesn't go away just by saying, "Sorry...we didn't mean to screw YOU over. We were trying to screw over these OTHER guys, not you. See, we're good guys!" Kean's exactly right. So what if it's absolutely brand new, in the box, sealed, having never been touched by western hands. So? Siglent still has no right to call it a counterfeit just because they don't like the price.

Everytime Siglent or a dealer comes on here and tries to make some excuse, you just dig a much deeper hole because it becomes even more obvious that you still don't understand why it's bad behavior. It's not about mistakenly targeting the OP. It's about purposely targeting everyone else. The fact that the OP got caught up in this just makes it worse, but it's really not the core issue right now.

[tautech]

Hey !, I never got caps on my unit so is it new or not .

They were rightfully removed in you case Garry as a hazard. We wouldn't want you choking on them. 

[madires]

I seems a bunch of frustrated EEs here feel they would have done better off studying and practicing law?   

When I studied EE I had several lectures in law. Those were part of the standard curriculum. Back then I thought WTF, but later on I realized how important those lectures in law are, especially when you have to negotiate contracts or run you own business.

[Macbeth]

I never got any caps either. I want BNC caps All this rigging the market shenanigans has been entertaining, but I am feeling hard done by now... WHERE'S MY BNC CAPS RIGLENT? 

[alank2]

All companies make mistakes, if someone calls for the head of every company who made a mistake, there would be none.  Was there an original policy serving the company by trying to control their products sales on eBay?  Very likely.  Let's not pretend that they are only in it for their customers.  The best there can be is that they are in it for profit and they also want to also provide a quality product or service to their customers.  They are in the business to make money and their IP is something that has to be protected.  With that said, someone trying to pass off a counterfeit product using their name is completely different than someone trying to sell a used piece of equipment as was the case here.  The irony is that it sounds like they were selling off an older piece of equipment to buy a new one from the same manufacturer!  Sometimes someone, or something needs "correction".  That doesn't have to be total destruction, but a slap on the wrist to say, "No, this isn't the right way to operate."  If they learn, stop doing the wrong thing, then great, they can benefit and so can everyone else.  I say give Siglent a chance to do better before dropping them in the hot oil over one offense.

[tautech]

Tautech and Siglent itself don't seem to understand yet that a mistake in enforcing a crooked policy doesn't go away just by saying, "Sorry...we didn't mean to screw YOU over. We were trying to screw over these OTHER guys, not you. See, we're good guys!" Kean's exactly right. So what if it's absolutely brand new, in the box, sealed, having never been touched by western hands. So? Siglent still has no right to call it a counterfeit just because they don't like the price.

Everytime Siglent or a dealer comes on here and tries to make some excuse, you just dig a much deeper hole because it becomes even more obvious that you still don't understand why it's bad behavior. It's not about mistakenly targeting the OP. It's about purposely targeting everyone else. The fact that the OP got caught up in this just makes it worse, but it's really not the core issue right now.

What can I say?
Siglents marketing policies ARE NOT my policies and these events have impacted on my company value. Excuses? For actions that have hurt me? 

[Macbeth]

Something else. The carefully shot photos presented by OldSchool' are exactly the opposite of what a "brown market" box shifter would post. They all use the same old stock photos and dodgy descriptions. The ebay post stands out as NOT being a commercial sale. Even, if not especially, by Chinese standards - BNC caps or not. 

[Fungus]

Why are just these 2 things so important?
Look at this image from the FIRST POST in this thread and ask; What is unusual about it?

There is only one answer in this pic that is relevant to root cause of this debacle.....OEM BNC CAPS

a) You don't know what the person who cancelled the listing saw. Did they go through all the pics? 

b) The wooden table is much more of a giveaway then those caps. No commercial seller would do that.

To me the caps just say "I looked after it and didn't throw away the packaging".

[SteveLy]

I never had any intention of locking this thread.

I first learnt that Siglent existed because of EEVBlog's youtube videos. Rigol I was well aware of long before because we have cupboards full of their scopes and other equipment at work (undergraduate teaching labs at a university). And they work year after year of rough treatment by students. Our army of DS1052E's are unstoppable, dare I say "unbreakable".

But Siglent?. Never freaking heard of them till EEVBlog. But this thread sure put them on my radar. Any publicity is good publicity some say...(?)

[OldSchoolTechCorner]

This, for the record needs be said, even at the risk of inflaming this thread. 


There is much info in this thread, it's just how it's been interpreted, or not, or just plainly and/or arrogantly ignored that needs be addressed.

Firstly I'll not condone Siglent China's actions, be they lawful or otherwise and I won't pretend to make any judgement of lawful or otherwise pratice Siglent may or may not have committed, as it is not my speciality or place to do so.

Any lawful or otherwise behaviour that may or may not be addressed by authorities is not for us to be judge, jury and executioner over as this will only cloud due process.


Siglent have taken a massive pounding in this thread and some of it argueably is well deserved for "as we perceive" their misguided actions of their "so called" reseller protection. That Siglent have also taken a substantial hit in "brand value" is undeniable, not only Siglent but their valued customers and we dealers too.
But enough of crying over split milk, these events cannot now be quickly reversed, forgotten nor made to "go away".
 
All this may have been prevented if a Siglent website statement had been made, warning of possibly fraudulent product copies and then prospectiver buyers could then apply caveat emptor just as has been pointed out earlier in this thread.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


That now said, I'd like to take a tour of 2 basic facts:

1. We no longer have the eBay listing to refer to but we do have the images the OP OldSchoolTechCorner states he used for the eBay listing.
2. We have communications from Siglent America from Siglent China stating the staffer that mistakenly flagged the eBay listing as suspect in "Siglent's eyes" and an explanation of her actions.

Why are just these 2 things so important?
Look at this image from the FIRST POST in this thread and ask; What is unusual about it?



There is only one answer in this pic that is relevant to root cause of this debacle.....OEM BNC CAPS



WHY?
OldSchoolTechCorner listed this item as "MINT" and "USED" and indeed it was, but at first glance or just a study of the eBay image ANYBODY MIGHT ASSUME it was a new unit with BNC protector caps installed, just as new units are.



BUT all this happened in CHINA where English is only a SECOND language and to my mind clearly explains Siglent's mistaken course of action and this ensuing debacle.

WHY?
My frequent communications with China have to be carefully worded for Siglent's clear understanding. A visit to Siglent HQ last year also alerted me to this fact.
This is also why Siglent support commonly ask for videos or pictures when assisting requests for help from customers and also one of the good reasons why Siglent America was established.


We know Siglent has OWNED UP to a MISTAKE made in flagging this unit as possibly fraudulent and I ask you; if English was not your first language and relying on the images might you have made this same  mistake too?
If the Siglent staffer took the time to check OldSchoolTechCorner's eBay feedback instead of focusing on that they saw in the images AND OldSchoolTechCorner's 2000+ ebay transactions, they might have come to a very different conclusion rather than: WARNING.....RESELLER. 



Through Siglent USA we've all been given the explanation of events and then some plainly choose to ignore them, even accusing the GM of Siglent America of LYING.   

Talk about shooting the messenger. 


There are no lies above, only facts and one might hope a few others might also see them now too. 

Again, I'll not condone Siglent China's actions, be they lawful or otherwise but the core cause of this "mistake" was inexperience and language issues.

In closing I very much hope Siglent reassigns resources from "market meddling" to focus on; further Firmware and product development and add a Siglent website statement warning of possible fradulent products featuring an online SN validity check.




These are my views and mine alone without influence from Siglent or any of their employees.

tautech

I put those on as dust covers, as I do with all my gear that has BNC's. My listing is very clear and detail and was clear sold as used and mint, no box, or plastic, even with that stated I am allow to sell it even if it's NEW. Then give me a break, have you, or anyone seen a fake Siglent? Then they clearly admitted that reason was to control the price and protect local distributors. In a couple of PM's, which get's copied to my email and in this very thread, whole thread was also copied. ZERO REASON FOR THEIR ACTIONS AND NO EXCUSE.  YOU DON'T ENFORCE POLICY ON EBAY WHERE YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS TO ENFORCE POLICY AND THEN TURN AROUND AND FILE A FALSE DMCA NOTICE.  Obviously you have vested interest and reason why you want this thread close, so it's gets swept under the rug and business as usual. Take it up with them. 

They still haven't let to make it right and playing the wait game for now, trust me if they don't correct the huge mistake as they claimed, next appropriate steps will be taken and whatever the end results are, it on them.

Same as soon as they make it right, I be sure to update as well and this situation may actually help them long term, if the decide clean up and resolve some issues and rebuilt and make them into a better company and they will be more well known, so long they do positive changes.

The ball is in their court now, it up to them on what they want to do with it. Placing blame and making excuses and asking to be sweep under rug, not the way to go. 

[John Coloccia]

Tautech and Siglent itself don't seem to understand yet that a mistake in enforcing a crooked policy doesn't go away just by saying, "Sorry...we didn't mean to screw YOU over. We were trying to screw over these OTHER guys, not you. See, we're good guys!" Kean's exactly right. So what if it's absolutely brand new, in the box, sealed, having never been touched by western hands. So? Siglent still has no right to call it a counterfeit just because they don't like the price.

Everytime Siglent or a dealer comes on here and tries to make some excuse, you just dig a much deeper hole because it becomes even more obvious that you still don't understand why it's bad behavior. It's not about mistakenly targeting the OP. It's about purposely targeting everyone else. The fact that the OP got caught up in this just makes it worse, but it's really not the core issue right now.

What can I say?
Siglents marketing policies ARE NOT my policies and these events have impacted on my company value. Excuses? For actions that have hurt me? 

I feel bad for you, honestly. I know it puts you and other dealers in a tough spot but what difference does it make that the unit had caps on it and looked like it was new? What's the difference if it was actually new?

Anyhow, in the long run all this commotion will probably help sales. As I said before, I'd never even heard of Siglent until I joined EEVBlog.  If they ever decide it's important to come clean and rehab their image, it will ultimately end up being a lot of exposure for them.

[AF6LJ]

So I guess now is not the time to start my new scope company called Siglant, huh?

I always thought it would be better to start a company called Craptronix...
Our motto would be "There is Crap in our name so we have to be better".
 

This probably belongs to "funny company names" but what a good thread if it doesn't get derailed every so often ?

Naaaa... Sigsight!

Aaaaaaall those years there hasn't been a "new" company that picked a name that sounds like any old name. HP changes the name to Agi-LENT and poof less than two years later sig-LENT shows up.
Now that Agilent is Keysight I'm waiting for the next  xxxsight company to show up .

How about Sigless.

[Deathwish]

I never got any caps either. I want BNC caps All this rigging the market shenanigans has been entertaining, but I am feeling hard done by now... WHERE'S MY BNC CAPS RIGLENT? 

I'm with you brother, lets go postal and start a wolfie smith on them.

[John Coloccia]

I seem to recall my Rigol didn't come with BNC caps either. Obviously, Siglent and Rigol have gotten together to manipulate the BNC cap market. 

[Kean]

I actually wish those BNC dust caps were more common.  One of those may have saved the rear BNC connector on a piece of test gear I just received from the USA.
And for once I can't blame the ebay global shipping program, and their terrible repackaging policy 

[ivan747]

I seems a bunch of frustrated EEs here feel they would have done better off studying and practicing law?   

When I studied EE I had several lectures in law. Those were part of the standard curriculum. Back then I thought WTF, but later on I realized how important those lectures in law are, especially when you have to negotiate contracts or run you own business.

Just like engineering economics as well.

[snik]

There is only one answer in this pic that is relevant to root cause of this debacle.....OEM BNC CAPS

WHY?
OldSchoolTechCorner listed this item as "MINT" and "USED" and indeed it was, but at first glance or just a study of the eBay image ANYBODY MIGHT ASSUME it was a new unit with BNC protector caps installed, just as new units are.

BUT all this happened in CHINA where English is only a SECOND language and to my mind clearly explains Siglent's mistaken course of action and this ensuing debacle.

tautech

Seriously, the BNC Caps ? I have BNC-Caps on all my Equipment, even on the Old ones ...
Also for me english is my second language  - and i can understand what OldTech wrote in his eBay Auction. And when I try to get a Job in an International Company with international transactions my English is then an important thing for my Job. Can't believe that not the same in China.

So maybe it's true, but the whole story leaves really a bad taste for me. 

[AF6LJ]

I seems a bunch of frustrated EEs here feel they would have done better off studying and practicing law?   

When I studied EE I had several lectures in law. Those were part of the standard curriculum. Back then I thought WTF, but later on I realized how important those lectures in law are, especially when you have to negotiate contracts or run you own business.

Just like engineering economics as well.

A well rounded, generalist education is an asset in any field.

[madires]

My frequent communications with China have to be carefully worded for Siglent's clear understanding. A visit to Siglent HQ last year also alerted me to this fact.
This is also why Siglent support commonly ask for videos or pictures when assisting requests for help from customers and also one of the good reasons why Siglent America was established.


We know Siglent has OWNED UP to a MISTAKE made in flagging this unit as possibly fraudulent and I ask you; if English was not your first language and relying on the images might you have made this same  mistake too?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Siglent America doesn't exist just for a few days. When one of the reasons for establishing Siglent America is to deal with the language barrier, why didn't Siglent HQ ask Siglent America for assistance? Very illogical, isn't it?

When assuming that the whole trouble is caused by a new employee without much experience and a lack of English language skills, this would clearly point to an incompetent management giving such task to the unexperienced employee. Also a lack of business processes and supervision, besides having the faintest idea when to consult a lawyer. Then I would have to wonder how that company could survive for so long.

These are harsh words, but either it's literally the new and unexperienced employee and a management without essential basics in running a business, or it's the classic PR process for damage control. I'd go for the latter. And I don't think that Steve is lying, he's just telling what he was told from HQ. The problem is within HQ and Steve is just helping with the language barrier (and has to take all the hits, I feel sorry for him).

[snik]

I never got any caps either. I want BNC caps   WHERE'S MY BNC CAPS RIGLENT? 

To get BNC-Caps you need to buy Siglent Equipment at the grey market  1:0 for the unauthorized Resellers 

[Fungus]

I never got any caps either. I want BNC caps All this rigging the market shenanigans has been entertaining, but I am feeling hard done by now... WHERE'S MY BNC CAPS RIGLENT? 

Ask your "rep".  That's what he's there for...   

[Macbeth]

Ask your "rep".  That's what he's there for...   

You know, I forgotten entirely who I bought it off. I remember it was a chinese ebay seller... I just dug through my old email inbox and found the seller is still selling them on ebay. I was beginning to wonder if I got it from one of these brown or grey sellers, but as only authorised sellers are on ebay my mind is at rest.

[ataradov]

Well, I bought SDG1025 just a day before this came up, and this is the last piece of Siglent gear I buy for a while. But I've got no caps on either front or rear connectors.

So I'm thinking at least Siglent could send us all some caps