Siglent They filed a "wrongful trademark claim"

[John Coloccia]

This thread should be a sticky. I've never seen anything like this. With all the great choices out there, why on Earth would anyone ever spend even a dime with Siglent again?

[Muttley Snickers]

What they deem as fake may just mean that it is their product but not sold through an appointed dealer, this may be stock that goes out the back door or is part of a lost shipment, It does happen but can be addressed in a far better manner than this method which never had a leg to stand on.

This could also explain why they were so adamant in regards to the serial number of the OPs unit.

[Fungus]

when it comes to complex devices its usually expensive stuff that gets faked (i.e. ipods, iPhones) as this is the only way for the fakers to make some money.

Not only expensive, stuff that the common man would want to be seen carrying/wearing in public.

[nidlaX]

Right, much better to take their word for granted even though all signs say they're lying, because a reputable company like Siglent would never lie, right?

Let's be apologetic and see this as a simple mistake by some individuum and not as the verly likely borderline criminal attempt to rig the sales prices that all signs suggests it is, wait for the public apology, and then close your eyes and strongly believe that they will never try that again.

This needs to be reported and investigated by the authorities. Big time.

All I can say is I agree with you that this matter needs to be investigated, big time, and all of here are owed an explanation by Siglent and eBay. At no point did I say *we* should be apologetic, rather Siglent most certainly owes OldSchoolTechCorner an apology. I have no idea why you think asking everyone to calm down so we can wait for some more evidence to appear (rather than jump to conclusions based on one data point and a screenshot of Craigslist) is the same as suggesting we all shut our eyes and plug our ears.

[Wuerstchenhund]

when it comes to complex devices its usually expensive stuff that gets faked (i.e. ipods, iPhones) as this is the only way for the fakers to make some money.

Not only expensive, stuff that the common man would want to be seen carrying/wearing in public.

What inexpensive complex devices would want the common man to be seen wearing/carrying in public? And which of them are commonly targeted by fakers?

[nidlaX]

when it comes to complex devices its usually expensive stuff that gets faked (i.e. ipods, iPhones) as this is the only way for the fakers to make some money.

Not only expensive, stuff that the common man would want to be seen carrying/wearing in public.

Regardless of whether real fakes exist or not, this matter should be handled publicly and transparently just as Wuerstchenhund suggests.

[Wim_L]

For a start, Siglent kit is pretty cheap, and as nctnico said it would require someone to produce the same casing, moldings, and manufacture a copy of the circuit board, produce fake manuals and so on, all of which costs money. There's a simple reason that when it comes to complex devices its usually expensive stuff that gets faked (i.e. ipods, iPhones) as this is the only way for the fakers to make some money.

Oh, it's possible... If the official factory is also the one making the fakes. It wouldn't be the first time something like that happens. People putting in a bit of extra undeclared 'overtime' after their shift, making some extra units that are identical to the real thing, except they never get a real serial number or get registered with the real company. Maybe they skip some testing too.

[rjeberhardt]

Oh, it's possible... If the official factory is also the one making the fakes. It wouldn't be the first time something like that happens. People putting in a bit of extra undeclared 'overtime' after their shift, making some extra units that are identical to the real thing, except they never get a real serial number or get registered with the real company. Maybe they skip some testing too.

Those are not fakes but stolen goods which are another matter entirely.

Russell.

[John Coloccia]

Anyone who's been an engineer for more than a week can reliably identify 3 smells:

1) coffee
2) burned up PCBs
3) bullshit

It's almost 7:00am here, as I sit in my small home office. I can smell two of these. I don't have any burned up PCBs, by the way.

[zapta]

Don't worry, it will get resolved in a few days, Siglent will send you a free DSO and everybody will be happy.

I'd say unless they send him an SDS3054 it won't even start to make good the mistake they made!

I was thinking DS2202A.

[cowana]

Sigilent are a relatively new company - how the public perceive their company will have a huge impact on if they can become established in the test equipment industry.

Rigol have done a good job at this - they're well known for excellent value, decent build quality for the price, and reliable enough for hobbiest use.

For me, Sigilent's crazy behavior as described in this thread have destroyed any chance of my buying anything from them. There are enough competitors that any uncertain feeling would make me pay a slight premium for another manufacturer - in my mind there is no way they could recover  back to an equal level with competitors.  Perhaps the most concerning thing is the divide between the US and China departments - the fact that the US department is (seemingly) unaware of the going-ons, makes you wonder what other underhand tactics are (or might) happen.

Sorry Sigilent - no chance I'll ever take the risk of having to deal with you - I'll stick with someone I know is safe and I'm not going to be attacked if I ever want to sell on the equipment.

[Wuerstchenhund]

Oh, it's possible... If the official factory is also the one making the fakes. It wouldn't be the first time something like that happens. People putting in a bit of extra undeclared 'overtime' after their shift, making some extra units that are identical to the real thing, except they never get a real serial number or get registered with the real company. Maybe they skip some testing too.

Those are not fakes but stolen goods which are another matter entirely.

Exactly, and those things should be solvable internally. No need to pester customers with it.

[Wuerstchenhund]

Don't worry, it will get resolved in a few days, Siglent will send you a free DSO and everybody will be happy.

I'd say unless they send him an SDS3054 it won't even start to make good the mistake they made!

I was thinking DS2202A.

Rigol DS2202A? That would still be too little to make good their mistake, and I doubt they'll give him a competitor's scope anyways.

Or are you talking about the Siglent SDS2204, the scope that despite being on the market for over a year comes has some many bugs in its firmware that it's not even funny?

No, they should either give him a SDS3504 with all options enabled or buy a LeCroy WaveSurfer 3054 (which is the same scope, hardware by Siglent and software by LeCroy) for him.

[dr.diesel]

Sorry Sigilent - no chance I'll ever take the risk of having to deal with you - I'll stick with someone I know is safe and I'm not going to be attacked if I ever want to sell on the equipment.

Yup, some will argue that everyone makes mistakes, but IMO you don't recover from something this idiotic. 

For myself, and anyone that asks I will strongly suggest avoiding all Siglent products.

[Wuerstchenhund]

Yup, some will argue that everyone makes mistakes, but IMO you don't recover from something this idiotic. 

For myself, and anyone that asks I will strongly suggest avoiding all Siglent products.

Maybe someone in the US should let the FTC know about it:
https://www.ftc.gov/faq/competition/report-antitrust-violation

I don't live in the U.S. otherwise I'd do it myself. This needs to be investigated thoroughly.

[Macbeth]

Well I'm happy with my SDG1025, but would I have purchased it knowing it had an effective zero resale value? No chance!

Buying new stuff like Rigol & Siglent, well there is the instant depreciation all goods have when purchased new, but I would expect some kind of residual value and a marketplace for them!

No more Siglent for me.

[ebastler]

I don't buy the fake product argument for one second! It would require making the exact same casings, electronics, etc to make a clone which can run Siglent's firmware.

Same here -- I am pretty sure Siglent does not assume anybody is faking their products. Most likely, Siglent want to control pricing for new equipment, by making sure that it is sold only through their authorized dealer network, and working with those dealers to keep the prices where they are.

I.e. they want to avoid a grey market, where dealers might sell excess stock at lower prices via inofficial channels, or dealers sell outside their appointed territories undercutting the authorized local dealers. I assume the "fake" argument is a pretext, and the complaint against a used product sale is a mishap (hopefully!!)

[fivefish]

Hmmmm.... this looks more and more like a case of a company bullying their way and threatening end users (not dealers) from selling their used/not-wanted-anymore Siglent equipment on eBay.  -- by claiming to eBay the end-user seller is trying to sell fake equipment. 

Try to find USED Siglent equipment on eBay....

[haveissues]

The fact that there are currently a total of TWO used siglent items on ebay and hundreds of new siglent items is very telling IMHO.  Between ebay listings and the PM's that were made public it sure seems they know exactly what they are doing and this is no accident.

[Siglent America]

Dear OldSchoolTechTeacher & eeVBloggers.

Overnight I learned the details of our mistake and here is what I found:

A Siglent employee - a recent college graduate - mistook the eBay ad for that of an unauthorized dealer. English is not this employee's first language and they obviously did not do due diligence in checking to see whether it was an an individual (as you are) or an authorized dealer selling new Siglent equipment. Siglent, like most every other company in this business, does not want unauthorized dealers selling Siglent equipment then disappearing if & when support is needed later. I believe we have all heard of companies like this and we don't want our customers being taken advantage of by anyone. This is why Siglent - and others - have authorized distributors in the first place. Authorized dealers are trained by Siglent, supplied with technical and logistical information and support, updates, literature, etc. An authorized dealer does not work with us has no direct communication with Siglent. TEquipment is one of our important authorized distributors and we have contact with them almost every single day.

Again, this was clearly a mistake by a young employee at the factory who did not fully research your ad on eBay and your situation. She is most embarrassed for her mistake and we are all taking steps to insure that something like this does not happen again. As a note to all, you can always find a list of authorized representatives and distributors on the three Siglent websites.

Having worked in the test equipment industry since 1978 let me say this about Siglent. I have worked for Siglent for 1 1/2 years and I have never worked for a company that works harder and faster to solve problems that have occurred. With that in mind, I want to apologize to you as an individual and to apologize to you on behalf of Siglent Technologies. Please disregard the Siglent employee's request for your unit's serial number. She is still learning, just as we all have had to do when we were younger.
I will contact you via PM this morning regarding speaking with you on Monday. I am not in the office this morning. We will make this situation right for you.

Finally, one last comment about counterfeit instruments as I think this topic has been blown out of proportion. Again, I know of a single case of a counterfeit Siglent product. One. This is anything but a widespread problem. All authorized partner inventory is shipped to them directly from Siglent. They do not have counterfeit units. If anyone ever has a question or problem - we ask that you please contact Siglent directly, as this particular customer did. The problem was taken care of within one day. When there is any doubt, Siglent always tries to take care of our customers.

Siglent Technologies cannot have a company without you, our customers, If we make a mistake then we want to solve our mistake and make it right. We have made a mistake here, we are making steps to not let it happen again, and we want to make up for our mistake to you, OldSchoolTeacher.

Again, I apologize for our mistake.
I will send you the PM and ask that we speak next Monday.

Thank you for your understanding. I will be in touch shortly.
Steve Barfield
General Manager
Siglent Technologies America

[ebastler]

The fact that there are currently a total of TWO used siglent items on ebay and hundreds of new siglent items is very telling IMHO.  Between ebay listings and the PM's that were made public it sure seems they know exactly what they are doing and this is no accident.

Indeed, those numbers tell a different story than what I had assumed. Maybe they are after the sellers of used equipment after all...

But why should any company try to suppress sales of used equipment?! The total volume of used sales cannot harm their new sales in a significant way. And due to brand loyalty, I would expect that a significant share of the sellers of used Siglent products are also buyers of new Siglent products. Or would be, if Siglent had not harrassed them with ebay complaints...

[John Coloccia]

Even if a seller is violating their dealership agreements or is not an authorized dealer, which is obviously not the case on a used item anyway, making false trademark infringement/counterfeit claims is seriously bad behavior. That's a completely inappropriate way to deal with unauthorized dealers. Whoever made the mistake shouldn't be embarrassed or punished since they're just doing their job. Whoever made the decision that this is corporate policy should be embarrassed.

[nctnico]

What they deem as fake may just mean that it is their product but not sold through an appointed dealer, this may be stock that goes out the back door or is part of a lost shipment, It does happen but can be addressed in a far better manner than this method which never had a leg to stand on.

This could also explain why they were so adamant in regards to the serial number of the OPs unit.

This thought has crossed my mind as well. Perhaps a large quantity of equipment got stolen and they are making an half assed attempt to deal with the problem themselves instead of letting the authorities handle it.

[dr.diesel]

And they blame it on the newbie, with 159 posts here dating back to 2013, 

[tec5c]

That still doesn't explain why there are no used Siglent items currently for sale on eBay though...

Well, except for a single brave soul who's stickin' it to the man!  O0