Siglent Technologies SDS1202X-E 200 mhz Digital Oscilloscope 2 Channels

[bdunham7]

Cold-boot reliability still on wait-n-see ...

The only thing that I can think of that would cause this and be internal to the scope would be if the input capacitance of a particular channel were changing.  I think it is pretty unlikely that the calibrator output would misbehave so as to cause that display, but if you have another scope, you can check easily enough. 

If the problem is changing input capacitance, testing with the probe set to 1X isn't going to help.  Instead, if you try this fairly simple procedure I think you can figure out if and where there is a problem.

1) Connect a probe to each channel, set to 10X, and connect both of them to the calibrator output.  Remove (completely) and set aside both ground clips, you don't need them and they might cause confusing results. 

2) Set both channels identically so that the calibrator signal appears on screen and the two signals are right on top of one another.  It doesn't actually matter whether you select 1X or 10X on the scope, but just to keep things straight use 10X.

3) After the scope is all warmed up, adjust each probe's compensation as needed for the nicest square edge you can manage.  Observe for a little bit and make sure the display is very stable and the traces are right on top of one another.  You can alternately select each channel and it should be right on top of the other one, as if there was only one trace. 

4) Turn the scope off overnight or for as long as you think it needs to cool down.  Turn it back on and see if there is any problem.

[Hank69]

Some time ago last year, (May 2022), I ordered a Rigol DS1202Z-E from big A and I found myself adjusting the wrong channel with the STUPID, one knob control for both vertical channels.  I had to constantly "remind" myself of what channel I was currently using.  Back then I found and reported a bug that when any vertical adjustment was made to either channel, the other channel's ground reference "jumped" upward by 15-20 mV.  Even pushing either channels vertical button to zero the channel to the horizontal grid line would make the other channel jump.  I was currently looking for a scope to use for my "retirement hobby" projects and as I was checking the latest Rigol firmware updates, there were NO FW updates issued from the time this bug was reported to the present time.  BUT, the most important factor that steered me to the Siglent SDS1202X-E was the separate vertical controls.  The max 14M point-single/7M-dual channel memory of the Siglent is more than sufficient for home use and works very well.  I discovered that the Siglent's top right freq window does not report signals < 10Hz and if you select the freq option in the measurements window it will report nicely a 7.38Hz signal as shown in the pix.  Accurate freq measurements can also be obtained via cursor measurement.  I enjoy the colors used in the yellow/blue trace display as there is no mistaking channel data on the screen.  I can totally recommend the Siglent even though it costs a bit more, but, having separate vertical controls is mandatory in my mind....

P.S.  IF you are still having issues with the operation I would strongly suggest to contact Siglent and take advantage of the three year warranty.  Worth a shot....

[13hm13]

About my probes ... pretty std. Velleman 100 mhz, 1x/10 x probes. Not high end but typical probes (2010 price) puch'd at a local electronics shop. See: https://www.jameco.com/z/PROBE100-Velleman-4-Foot-100MHz-Oscilloscope-Probe-Set_2130618.html

About my issue ... "Auto Setup" seems to be the magic button, at least for warm boots. It fixes everything. If I don't press Auto Setup, and warm boot OFF---> ON  (the flashing power button, in standby mode I assume) , and have the probe connected to the front-panel 1k sqrwave  / gnd tap for self test, I get a horizontally rolling pattern. I must go into Trigger Setup, and manually select Source (CH1 or 2) and Slope Falling (but sometimes either Rising or Falling will stop the rolling ...... WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!).
Not sure about Cold Boot. I don't have lot of time to invest in this experiment.

Bottom line: After the 1k square wave looks good, square and steady ... and I unplug the device as is ... and re-plug and pwr on, a day or two later,  with the probe still connected to 1k  test tap, the Siglent should show the SAME steady 1k square wave, EXACTLY as when I pulled the plug. My Tek 465 can do that.

[tautech]

Bottom line: After the 1k square wave looks good, square and steady ... and I unplug the device as is ... and re-plug and pwr on, a day or two later,  with the probe still connected to 1k  test tap, the Siglent should show the SAME steady 1k square wave, EXACTLY as when I pulled the plug. My Tek 465 can do that.

There is your problem, you MUST power down with the front panel button for this scope to save settings.
I mentioned this 2 days ago. 

[2N3055]

Let me reiterate what so far several people told you:

Modern scopes are NOT anything alike your Tek 465.
They are basically computers put in scope case.

You have to boot them, and shutdown them nicely. Like computer.

They have literally 10s of triggers and trigger modes.
But they don't have alternate trigger.
Modern digital scopes are much more powerful than old analog ones. They also don't have some stuff old ones had, some stuff because they are digital and some because people changed the way we use scopes..
But that brings both complexity and new ways of thinking, before we are able to use them them to full extent.
They don't have physical switches. You set them up from menus. What software remembers is important.
You can set scope to boot every time to a reset state. That is default. You can also go into menu and set them to boot to any combination you like. You can save many different setups and recall them.
Digital scopes are different.

Bottom line is that you seem to not understand exactly how to use digital scope and you need to read the manual to learn how. You will have to invest time. Otherwise you will never know how to use it properly..

I understand your frustration. But that is just how the world is today. Take it or leave it.

I have same problem with these new cars. There are quite few today that don't even have a knob to set heating. You set it on a stupid touchscreen. It annoys me to no end. But I had to drive one few days ago and I had to learn how to navigate menus because alternative was to freeze because I refuse to learn how to do it. That seemed stupid, because I don't like cold. So I spent few minutes learning to navigate menu system.. I was still annoyed by why is world going in that direction but I was able to operate it so it serves my purpose.

Being stubborn at your own expense is never good choice..

[bdunham7]

I don't have lot of time to invest in this experiment.

What I proposed will take you 2 minutes to set up at night and 30 seconds to check in the morning.  And stop unplugging your DSO before you shut it down, that's not the proper way to use it.  Do you yank the plug out of the wall on your computer or LCD TV and expect it to go right back to where it was when you plug it back in?  After all, my old RCA Colortrak would do that just fine....

[13hm13]

Bottom line: After the 1k square wave looks good, square and steady ... and I unplug the device as is ... and re-plug and pwr on, a day or two later,  with the probe still connected to 1k  test tap, the Siglent should show the SAME steady 1k square wave, EXACTLY as when I pulled the plug. My Tek 465 can do that.

There is your problem, you MUST power down with the front panel button for this scope to save settings.
I mentioned this 2 days ago. 

Sorry to confuse you. Again. And again.
 Come on, man  ... how careless do you assume quotidian experiments are?
No, I'm not as presumptuous as you assume in your preachings : By "as is", I only meant with the probe connected to the 1k tap.  I always use the pwr button to OFF the Siglent, and wait for the black screen, before unplugging. Just like w/my Tek--use it's pwr button, but that one is always left plugged in unless I have to move it.

IAC ...

After overnight cycle ... the Siglent seems to be behaving upon start. "Fascinating!"

[bdunham7]

Sorry to confuse you. Again. And again.
 Come on, man  ... how careless do you assume quotidian experiments are?

As careless as your communications, perhaps?

Given your setup as pictured and assuming this is at power-on with no adjustments, I've no idea why you would have "horizontal rolling" on startup at times.  As for the probe compensation pattern issue that you were originally complaining of, you would likely need to have the probe set for 10X to observe such a problem.  I explained this in an earlier post.  I'm squinting and guessing, but it looks like your probe is set for 1X.  And it looks like you have AC coupling on, although we can't read the screen at all. 

[tautech]

No, I'm not as presumptuous as you assume in your preachings : By "as is", I only meant with the probe connected to the 1k tap.  I always use the pwr button to OFF the Siglent, and wait for the black screen, before unplugging.

After overnight cycle ... the Siglent seems to be behaving upon start. "Fascinating!"

 

Now if you could just learn to use it DC input coupled and only use AC coupling when required I'll leave you to enjoy learning the capabilities of these fine little DSO's. 

[13hm13]

Sorry to confuse you. Again. And again.
 Come on, man  ... how careless do you assume quotidian experiments are?

As careless as your communications, perhaps?

Given your setup as pictured and assuming this is at power-on with no adjustments, I've no idea why you would have "horizontal rolling" on startup at times.  As for the probe compensation pattern issue that you were originally complaining of, you would likely need to have the probe set for 10X to observe such a problem.  I explained this in an earlier post.  I'm squinting and guessing, but it looks like your probe is set for 1X.  And it looks like you have AC coupling on, although we can't read the screen at all.

Excuses, excuses.
And if I did post a video of the rolling, many of you would pontificate that I did not use some sort of Siglent "Print" button (video mode).
Beyond weirdness y'all are
BTW ... about the "unplugged as is" remark many of y'all jumped on me fer .... 'cuz, ya know, y'all ain't capable of thinkin; outside that "box".
Well, that got me to thinkin' outside ... and inside ... da box.
The Siglent SHOULD be able to recover from a power outage.
Recover and RESUME like nothin' had happened. Plug-n-play, baby!
Maybe I'll experiment with that.

[bdunham7]

The Siglent SHOULD be able to recover from a power outage.
Recover and RESUME like nothin' had happened. Plug-n-play, baby!
Maybe I'll experiment with that.

RTFM.  It's in the utility menu. 

[2N3055]

Sorry to confuse you. Again. And again.
 Come on, man  ... how careless do you assume quotidian experiments are?

As careless as your communications, perhaps?

Given your setup as pictured and assuming this is at power-on with no adjustments, I've no idea why you would have "horizontal rolling" on startup at times.  As for the probe compensation pattern issue that you were originally complaining of, you would likely need to have the probe set for 10X to observe such a problem.  I explained this in an earlier post.  I'm squinting and guessing, but it looks like your probe is set for 1X.  And it looks like you have AC coupling on, although we can't read the screen at all.

Excuses, excuses.
And if I did post a video of the rolling, many of you would pontificate that I did not use some sort of Siglent "Print" button (video mode).
Beyond weirdness y'all are
BTW ... about the "unplugged as is" remark many of y'all jumped on me fer .... 'cuz, ya know, y'all ain't capable of thinkin; outside that "box".
Well, that got me to thinkin' outside ... and inside ... da box.
The Siglent SHOULD be able to recover from a power outage.
Recover and RESUME like nothin' had happened. Plug-n-play, baby!
Maybe I'll experiment with that.

At this point it is obvious that you didn't come here for help but for something else..
Funny enough, I find your style familiar ("everybody is an idiot except you" type..), just cannot put a finger on it ...

Scope recovers from power outage just fine. Works perfectly, it seems. It just resets to defaults because you need to save your favorite settings first. But you need to learn how to do it..
In order to be able to think out of the box you first need to know what is inside the box.

I have two news for you: good and bad.

Good one is that your scope is all good and well. Not a single problem with it. So no need to worry.

Bad news is that you don't know how to use it and refuse to learn.
And you are being a toss to people trying to teach you a thing or two and help you. You'll have to work on that, or bad results are guaranteed..

Devices will behave exactly as designers that designed them intended. Not the way you think they should behave, ignoring 40 years of electronics development and physical realities. This particular scope comes with a 247 pages book. Read it. We know you can read, you have no problem writing offensive comments to people. Just use your reading skills for good.
Learn. It's good for you.

[tautech]

Learn. It's good for you.

One of the best threads about SDS1202X-E a few pages in when Charlotte orders one:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/what-an-oscilloscope-recommended-for-a-woman-passionate-about-electronics/msg3104228/#msg3104228

There's another 30 pages in this thread where we explore all the features with Charlotte.

[bdunham7]

At this point it is obvious that you didn't come here for help but for something else..

Yes, he came here to entertain us!

As an aside, I think one reason some people have difficulty transitioning to a DSO from an older CRO is that they never really understood how to use their CRO either.  They can twiddle the knobs and get a picture, not unlike how 50 years ago someone with absolutely no electronics knowledge could still figure out how to get a picture on their television.  Set the channel, adust the fine tuning, move the aerial, adjust the vertical hold, adjust the contrast/brightness/color settings until it looks right, etc. 

[13hm13]

At this point it is obvious that you didn't come here for help but for something else..

Yes, he came here to entertain us!

You bet ....

Look, fellas .... I get it, 'k ....

Some y'all sellin' these Sigs fer a livin', and bad publicity ain't good fer biz. So let every issue be some sort of "OPERATOR ERROR".  Use that 'scuse till the POS is outta warranty.

And there are the brand-name fanboys. Hey, I know what you mean. I love my Fluke and Tek more than anyone.

And then there are service techs and engineers that have been using the questionable model ... and will defend it to the hilt .... 'cause they don't wanna face the possibility that they mighta UNKNOWINGLY screwed the pooch on upteen service calls or projects ... cuz the gremlin was something called Siglent ... havin' the last laugh.

And the dream goes on ....

[2N3055]

At this point it is obvious that you didn't come here for help but for something else..

Yes, he came here to entertain us!

You bet ....

Look, fellas .... I get it, 'k ....

Some y'all sellin' these Sigs fer a livin', and bad publicity ain't good fer biz. So let every issue be some sort of "OPERATOR ERROR".  Use that 'scuse till the POS is outta warranty.

And there are the band-name fanboys. Hey, I know what you mean. I love my Fluke and Tek more than anyone.

And then there are service techs and engineers that have been using the questionable model ... and will defend it to the hilt .... 'cause they don't wanna face the possibility that they mighta UNKNOWINGLY screwed the pooch on upteen service calls or projects ... cuz the gremlin was something called Siglent ... havin' the last laugh.

And the dream goes on ....

Like I said, you can live in a dream world and just keep saying other people are guilty for you being uneducated and rude.
But, all in all, it is ultimately up to you to decide to put in work and make yourself better: more knowledgeable and less rude and obnoxious.

You demonstrated staggering amount of inability to use a device you have and to learn how to use it properly. That by itself  is not a problem. But your refusal to try and fix that shortcoming is. 

Maybe there is something funny with the scope. We don't know. You worked hard against all of us so we could not prove it either way. You worked hard to just keep it at level of accusations and uncertainty and doubt. I'm not dumb, scope is !

By what you were able to demonstrate, scope you have is fully functional and nothing is broken. You simply don't know how to use it and refuse to follow simple troubleshooting procedures that are meant to prove that scope is functioning properly.

Honestly, all things break sometimes. We tried to help you prove it is broken so you can verify if you have the problem. We couldn't find anything wrong (well, nothing wrong with the scope, anyways).

It is you that came here with an agenda to prove that scope is broken and POS because you simply cannot be wrong, as perfect as you are... Other people just tried to help you, which they mostly regret now..

I will repeat. Scope seems to be fine. Read the manual. Learn how to use it. Enjoy new found knowledge and skills..

[bdunham7]

Some y'all sellin' these Sigs fer a livin', and bad publicity ain't good fer biz. So let every issue be some sort of "OPERATOR ERROR".  Use that 'scuse till the POS is outta warranty.

That's not now it works around here and if anyone notices an actual issue like this, it gets discussed and the manufacturer gets roasted if need be.  There was a previous long discussion of an issue involving your exact model of oscilloscope and similar to whatever it is you are claiming.  Given that you said that yours is 2.5 years old, it probably wouldn't apply since Siglent rectified the issue in production. If you weren't being such a meathead we might have helped you figure that out by now.  But as it stands, we have no idea what is causing what you observe.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1202x-e-compensation-issue/

[BillyO]

Someone should refer this thread to Messrs. D. Dunning and J. Kruger for consideration as a case study.   

But otherwise not worth further effort. 

[modoran]

You should just return the scope and that's it. Never buy any DSO again.

[13hm13]

You should just return the scope and that's it. Never buy any DSO again.

Maybe not a Siglent or cheap Chinese DSO (Rigol, etc).
But I'm pretty rich -- $$ wise -- so I can 'ford to have it around and NOT use it for 2+ years like I noted in thie OP. Maybe an Agilent or Tek or R&S in the next shopping cart?

Seriously, put it away in situ for a week or two. Unplugged.  Turned it on. And all well and good.
Except if one tries to manually set some things, the Siglent loses it's mind .
Ya know ... the same stuff I noted in the earlier posts?
And it's back to pushin' those Blue Buttons ("Idiot Buttons"): Default and Auto Setup. I'm sure y'all are used to the same ROUTINE. Then the dream comes back crystal clear. Not gliching, no setting of falling/trailing edge slop. Etc. etc.
I assume this is how all Siglent SDS 1202's dream? Yes?

[tautech]

Where's the screenshots to demonstrate what you're waffling on about ? 

The idiot buttons as you call them are configurable but you should know that if you took time to RTFM or even attempt to learn this scopes capabilities.

So I got one out to do our PD checks and grabbed a screenshot to help guide you.
Here in the Save/Recall menu is a feature to set the Default button just to your personal liking, much like you can do by recalling a previously saved Setup file however a User defined Default is accessible with just one button press....Default. As seen in this screenshot it's so easy to configure, just save the current scopes setup.....or at any time you want/need to return the Factory setup just toggle the Type button and save it.

Too easy:

[13hm13]

Where's the screenshots to demonstrate what you're waffling on about ? 

Yup ... all ya' wanna see is pretty pictures ... like porn  ... which y'all will never be satisfied with anyway cuz it ain't a genuine SCREENSHOT. Oh, and HTF do you capture dynamic phenomenon -- which is a big part of the issue I keep runnin' into? I'll have to "RTFM" to figure out the video capture mode, right?

The idiot buttons as you call them are configurable but you should know that if you took time to RTFM or even attempt to learn this scopes capabilities.

"RTFM" .... "RTFM" ... "RTFM" ... the typical, lazy AF reply.
Well, here's mine: TL;DR.
A device should be outta-da-box intuitive, and ready to go for common, everyday tasks. Like Apple products or Toyota cars.
I keep goin' back to my old Tek 465. Never read TFM.

[2N3055]

Where's the screenshots to demonstrate what you're waffling on about ? 

Yup ... all ya' wanna see is pretty pictures ... like porn  ... which y'all will never be satisfied with anyway cuz it ain't a genuine SCREENSHOT. Oh, and HTF do you capture dynamic phenomenon -- which is a big part of the issue I keep runnin' into? I'll have to "RTFM" to figure out the video capture mode, right?

The idiot buttons as you call them are configurable but you should know that if you took time to RTFM or even attempt to learn this scopes capabilities.

"RTFM" .... "RTFM" ... "RTFM" ... the typical, lazy AF reply.
Well, here's mine: TL;DR.
A device should be outta-da-box intuitive, and ready to go for common, everyday tasks. Like Apple products or Toyota cars.
I keep goin' back to my old Tek 465. Never read TFM.

[5U4GB]

BTW, Tautech is a Siglent dealer.  He has considerable first hand experience with these scopes and a direct line to Siglent to get any hard questions answered.  Being flippant with him might not be your best approach.

This reminds me of the Microsoft moment some years ago when they'd just added the Korn shell (ksh) to their offering and a Microsoft guy at a conference talk was arguing with someone about the correctness of their implementation.  After a few back-and-forths someone took the MS guy aside and pointed out that the person he was arguing with was David Korn...