Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog

[tautech]

Lastest SDS1000 CNL/CML FW update.

Summary of Changes:
1.added bandwidth update option
2.fixed some bugs(including trigger jitter problem.
If use LongMemory and if timebase is 250us/div or less there is a jitter. If change to Normal memory no problem, if switch to Long Memory it appears.)


http://siglentamerica.com/download/software/SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P32.rar

[timofonic]

No replies from "Siglent" :/

[Macbeth]

No replies from "Siglent" :/

Seriously, I don't understand why you keep on at this. Sigrok is open source so the community can write code for it. Siglent have done all that is needed to enable this - they have published the SCPI protocol and even have LabVIEW drivers which can easily be examined with a trial version of LabVIEW - it's all out in the open.

Anyone can now make a Sigrok driver. Just find the code for another function gen in Sigrok that has been implemented using SCPI and modify it to suit. Surely it's that easy? 

Why not give it a go?

[timofonic]

No replies from "Siglent" :/

Seriously, I don't understand why you keep on at this. Sigrok is open source so the community can write code for it. Siglent have done all that is needed to enable this - they have published the SCPI protocol and even have LabVIEW drivers which can easily be examined with a trial version of LabVIEW - it's all out in the open.

Anyone can now make a Sigrok driver. Just find the code for another function gen in Sigrok that has been implemented using SCPI and modify it to suit. Surely it's that easy? 

Why not give it a go?

Sigrok developers use their free time to maintain the project, they aren't paid for it.

They don't care about their product enough to submit a patch. That makes their products not attractive at all and just keeps perpetuate the "chinese products are crap" stereotype. Why do others need to work for them? Sigrok adds value to their products.

I prefer to buy products with companies friendly to my OS and Open Source, not needing reverse engineering or extra efforts. That's why I agree on "Fuck you, Nvidia".

Sigrok needs more developers, they are currently too busy and lack of sponsorship. They are tired of lazy manufacturers with kind words and zero support.

I'm not a developer, just an electronics student.

[Macbeth]

Sigrok developers use their free time to maintain the project, they aren't paid for it.

They don't care about their product enough to submit a patch. That makes their products not attractive at all and just keeps perpetuate the "chinese products are crap" stereotype. Why do others need to work for them? Sigrok adds value to their products.

I prefer to buy products with companies friendly to my OS and Open Source, not needing reverse engineering or extra efforts.

Can you please show me the other manufacturers who are writing drivers for Sigrok? Specifically the function generators. After all you obviously think the Siglent SDG is chinese crap and have another model in mind, say Agilent, Rhode & Schwarz or something pretending to be none chinese. Can you show me the Sigrok drivers they have developed?

From what I can see the Siglent is one of the two function gens that the Sigrok team are planning to support, the other being a Hantek. They can do this precisely because there is no need to reverse engineer the SDG or proprietary Windows drivers. It's all out in the open. You can switch your SDG into USB-TMC mode, linux includes usbtmc in the kernel.

Now, my Hantek MSO5102D oscilloscope on the other hand - that is crappy closed source proprietary shite. Thankfully due to the sterling efforts of tinhead the reverse engineering has been done - and most of the details are there for someone to pick up the can and add the layer needed for Sigrok. There is a case for this as the MSO has a logic analyzer in it which badly needs a PC front end as the one on the scope is crap.

You say you are not a developer, so what do you plan to do with Sigrok when you have this driver? As far as I am aware the only front-end available for it is PulseView for logic analyzers. A universal function generator front end needs to be developed too.

[timofonic]

Sigrok developers use their free time to maintain the project, they aren't paid for it.

They don't care about their product enough to submit a patch. That makes their products not attractive at all and just keeps perpetuate the "chinese products are crap" stereotype. Why do others need to work for them? Sigrok adds value to their products.

I prefer to buy products with companies friendly to my OS and Open Source, not needing reverse engineering or extra efforts.

Can you please show me the other manufacturers who are writing drivers for Sigrok? Specifically the function generators. After all you obviously think the Siglent SDG is chinese crap and have another model in mind, say Agilent, Rhode & Schwarz or something pretending to be none chinese. Can you show me the Sigrok drivers they have developed?

From what I can see the Siglent is one of the two function gens that the Sigrok team are planning to support, the other being a Hantek. They can do this precisely because there is no need to reverse engineer the SDG or proprietary Windows drivers. It's all out in the open. You can switch your SDG into USB-TMC mode, linux includes usbtmc in the kernel.

Now, my Hantek MSO5102D oscilloscope on the other hand - that is crappy closed source proprietary shite. Thankfully due to the sterling efforts of tinhead the reverse engineering has been done - and most of the details are there for someone to pick up the can and add the layer needed for Sigrok. There is a case for this as the MSO has a logic analyzer in it which badly needs a PC front end as the one on the scope is crap.

You say you are not a developer, so what do you plan to do with Sigrok when you have this driver? As far as I am aware the only front-end available for it is PulseView for logic analyzers. A universal function generator front end needs to be developed too.

I consider 99.9999% electronics products to be crap in too many aspects. Propietary protocols, no hackability (I want be able to modify the hardware and software in ALL aspects, no walled gardens), bad quality, overpriced, difficulties repairing them and tons of more issues.

Because others ignore us, we consider specs good enough. But that's not sustainable in the FOSS ecosystem. That lack of community involvement from the interested parties is the reason projects get half-baked because no enough feedback and finally die.

Siglent attitude is hypocritically polite. They showed fake interest in the project and said to participate this forum, but they vanished and ignored us. They lost their credibility with that lack of seriousness, showing no responsibility nor compromise.

Do they want advertising? Pay for it. If they want to really get community involved, demonstrate it!

Yes, there's too much pending work in Open Source electronics tools. Even EdaCore looked very promising, but the project got very stalled and not sure about EvanFoss motivation.

[tautech]

Siglent attitude is hypocritically polite. They showed fake interest in the project and said to participate this forum, but they vanished and ignored us. They lost their credibility with that lack of seriousness, showing no responsibility nor compromise.

Do they want advertising? Pay for it. If they want to really get community involved, demonstrate it!

Absolute 
If you wamt a scrap, you are heading in the right direction.   

You must have blinkers on or are very one eyed. 

Have a look at their website to see the regular EE shows they participate in all over the world.
Siglent pay for advertising on the EEVblog main site and have done so for years.
You obviously have had little to do with the Chinese so wouldn't know how polite and humble people they are.
They were recently asked for product support in Labview and now their products are. 
The fact that both Siglent and Siglent America are on this forum regularly must have escaped you, check their profiles for last time on line if you don't believe me.
I have no idea if Siglent is investigating Sigrock , but if they are, you won't know until support is announced. Jade (Siglent) is only one person in a team that has to take on suggestions and deliver them to the team for consideration and development. This takes real time, do you think Sigrock is the ONLY thing they have to consider.
Remember China is a very different culture and while English in a compulsory language for the young it is not used in mainstream employment, so there is hesitance in its use in a WW forum.

So pull your head in, breathe through your nose and have some 

[rodelco54]

Hello, I am new to this forum, and pretty new to blogs in general, so please forgive my ignorance.  I am a retired engineer (mostly Visual Basic software for Test Equipment), and I am thinking of playing around with some embedded processors, single board computers, and such as a hobby.  I have been looking for an entry level oscilloscope, which is how I found this forum.  The amount of information here is overwhelming, but much appreciated.  I have gathered that Rigol scopes have a strong following, but my rather uneducated preferences have been leading me towards a 2 channel Siglent scope, i.e. SDS1072CML (~$300 USD).  I like the larger display, the individual vertical channel controls, and the quiet fan. 

In this thread, I saw a link to a firmware version of 5.01.02.29, but I found on the Siglent site that they have a 5.01.02.32 version.  Can anyone tell me what features this firmware adds, or problems it solves?

I would really be interested in people who have had a Siglent SDS1xxxCML scope for a while to see if you are still happy with it?

Thanks so much for any help!

[tautech]

Hello, I am new to this forum, and pretty new to blogs in general, so please forgive my ignorance.  I am a retired engineer (mostly Visual Basic software for Test Equipment), and I am thinking of playing around with some embedded processors, single board computers, and such as a hobby.  I have been looking for an entry level oscilloscope, which is how I found this forum.  The amount of information here is overwhelming, but much appreciated.  I have gathered that Rigol scopes have a strong following, but my rather uneducated preferences have been leading me towards a 2 channel Siglent scope, i.e. SDS1072CML (~$300 USD).  I like the larger display, the individual vertical channel controls, and the quiet fan. 

In this thread, I saw a link to a firmware version of 5.01.02.29, but I found on the Siglent site that they have a 5.01.02.32 version.  Can anyone tell me what features this firmware adds, or problems it solves?

I would really be interested in people who have had a Siglent SDS1xxxCML scope for a while to see if you are still happy with it?

Thanks so much for any help!

Welcome to the forum.

Lastest SDS1000 CNL/CML FW update.

Summary of Changes:
1.added bandwidth update option
2.fixed some bugs(including trigger jitter problem.
If use LongMemory and if timebase is 250us/div or less there is a jitter. If change to Normal memory no problem, if switch to Long Memory it appears.)


http://siglentamerica.com/download/software/SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P32.rar

As far as I know it will have been only minor tweaks of functionality, these are a goood basic sound DSO and although only 2 channel, they do have individual vertical controls for each and 400V volt rated inputs, 2 important features the Rigols do not have.
The HW in this series is common up to the 150 MHz model, so there will be no frequency roll off in the 70 MHz model at max BW.

[rodelco54]

tautech:  Thanks for the reply.  Sorry that I missed that information you posted earlier.

...The HW in this series is common up to the 150 MHz model, so there will be no frequency roll off in the 70 MHz model at max BW.

So, if I understand what you are saying, the difference between this model, and say the SDS1102CML is just the firmware?  Does that mean that the hardware's bandwidth is the same on all the scopes in this series, but maybe just the timebase settings are restricted?

[tautech]

Does that mean that the hardware's bandwidth is the same on all the scopes in this series, but maybe just the timebase settings are restricted?

Exactly.

Note the BW update option, this implies Siglent will be offering BW upgrades for purchase at some time in the future. I do not have this information officially, but due to the fact BW upgrade functionality is being added across Siglent's models/ranges one strongly presumes it will be the case.

[tautech]

And sorry, to fully answer your question: BW is only set at the factory at the moment and FW just fixes bugs/improves functionality.

[ted572]

Issue with the SHS800 Series Portable Oscilloscope's DMM 'Continuity' Measurement function:
The SHS800 Series DMM function 'Continuity' test has over a 1 second delay sounding the continuity test Tone when connecting to a closed circuit (a direct connection).  And there is a equal delay for it to mute the Tone after removing the test leads from the circuit under test.  Worst yet, the Tone does not sound continuously, but beeps On and Off while connected to a closed circuit.  All this makes it very difficult to check continuity, and impossible to locate an intermittent connections.  It is Ok to have a delay of the displayed Ohms value on the LCD, but certainly NOT with the Continuity Tone.   
I have a SHS810 with the latest hardware and firmware, and I reported this issue to Siglent America.

Edit: The SHS800 and SHS1000 Series both currently use the same Firmware, therefore the DMM Continuity issue is most likely also in the SHS1000 Portable Oscilloscope.

[rjeberhardt]

Can someone explain the maximum input voltage specifications for the sds1000cml range?
It is quoted as "400V (DC+AC PK-PK,1M? input impedance, X10),CAT I" in Siglent's documentation.

Does that mean that it's the maximum when using a 10x probe?  If so what is the significance of 1M??  The front panel is marked 400 V with no reference to the use of a 10x probe and is also marked CAT II as opposed to CAT I.  All rather contradictory, CAT II on the front panel implies that it can be directly connected to measure the domestic mains supply - not that I have any intention to do that but it would be nice to know.

How about the maximum input voltage on the Trigger input?

Russell.

[tautech]

Can someone explain the maximum input voltage specifications for the sds1000cml range?
It is quoted as "400V (DC+AC PK-PK,1M? input impedance, X10),CAT I" in Siglent's documentation.
Does that mean that it's the maximum when using a 10x probe?  If so what is the significance of 1M??  The front panel is marked 400 V with no reference to the use of a 10x probe and is also marked CAT II as opposed to CAT I.  All rather contradictory.
How about the maximum input voltage on the Trigger input?

Russell.

1 M Ohm is the standard input impedence for oscilloscope vertical channels.

Normal scope usage is with 10:1 probes, up to voltages specified as max for the probe in 10:1 setting.
For SDS1102CML probes this is 600V.
Refer to the probe datasheet for the "derating with frequency" graph

Within a measurement system it is best to apply the lowest of any CAT ratings.

For ongoing HV work one is wise to have 100:1 probes for safety of yourself and equipment.

Sorry, I don't have trigger ratings at hand at the moment.

[rjeberhardt]

Thanks for your reply Tautech.

I designed and built my first oscilloscope while I was still at school nearly 55 years ago and have used them professionally over many years.  Now, in my retirement, I just play but I decided it was time to modernise my workshop a bit and have ordered an SDS1072CML from Amazon.  I just like to know the correct maximum ratings of any instrument I use.

I downloaded the user manual from Siglent and find it inconsistent.

1 M Ohm is the standard input impedence for oscilloscope vertical channels.

Of course, as it has been for decades but not relevant to the maximum input voltage spec.

Normal scope usage is with 10:1 probes, up to voltages specified as max for the probe in 10:1 setting.
For SDS1102CML probes this is 600V.
Refer to the probe datasheet for the "derating with frequency" graph

Yes, although I do also tend to connect to the inputs with through terminations for video and RF use.

Within a measurement system it is best to apply the lowest of any CAT ratings.

But what is the CAT rating?  The instrument itself is marked with one rating and the manual text quotes another! Perhaps a Siglent rep can give a definitive answer?

The manual is very poorly written (although much better than I could do in Chinese) but matters concerning safety of both the instrument and the user should be clear and consistent.

Russell.
P.S. What an excellent forum this is

[rjeberhardt]

I have just received an email from Siglent.uk and they confirm that the 400 V maximum is when using a 10x probe.  The maximum input at the socket is 40 V, not the 400 V that is marked on the instrument.

They also confirmed that the 10x probe can safely be connected to the supply mains.

Russell.

[tautech]

I have just received an email from Siglent.uk and they confirm that the 400 V maximum is when using a 10x probe. The maximum input at the socket is 40 V, not the 400 V that is marked on the instrument.

This is QUITE incorrect.   

RTFM.

Siglent DSO's all have 400V rated channel inputs.
The standard probe with your scope is rated to 600V at 10:1 setting, with frequency derating to be applied of course. The derating graph is in the probe packet, use it.

So with 400v applied to the 10:1 probe there will be 40V imposed on the DSO channel input. It is in simple terms a 10:1 resistive divider.

Best advice for ongoing HV measurements is to have 100:1 probes so as to not push the voltage safety limits of 10:1 probes and thus provide additional operator safety.

[rf-loop]

I have just received an email from Siglent.uk and they confirm that the 400 V maximum is when using a 10x probe.  The maximum input at the socket is 40 V, not the 400 V that is marked on the instrument.

They also confirmed that the 10x probe can safely be connected to the supply mains.

Russell.

What? 

Perhaps he/she was billing office worker or secretary.

Yes there is in specs something what match 40V  it is maximum Offset voltage setting...

Input = Oscilloscope front panel BNC. It is oscilloscope input, also in China.

400Vpeak CATII   ()
It is printed in Service manual. 

I hope in future Siglent take this seriously and use standards perfectly and tell specifications exactly so that peoples do not need try quessing.

Table 1-2 Oscilloscope specifications
Inputs
Input Coupling AC, DC, GND
Input Impedance ?1M?±2%?||?16Pf±3Pf?
Maximum input voltage 400Vpk, CAT I I
Probe attenuation 1X, 10X
Probe attenuation ratio 1X, 5X, 10X, 50X, 100X, 500X, 1000X
Vertical System
Volts/Div Range 2mV/div~10V/div( in 1, 2, 5 sequence)

Channel Voltage Offset Range  (1)
2mV~200mV: ±1.6V
206 mV~10V: ±40V

(1) My add:
2mV~200mV/div
206 mV~10V/div


Edit add: And what is Siglent.uk ??

[nctnico]

Maybe the maximum range of a 1:1 probe is 5V/div which means the maximum peak-peak you can display is 40V

[tautech]

Maybe the maximum range of a 1:1 probe is 5V/div which means the maximum peak-peak you can display is 40V

The SDS1000 range max/div attenuation setting is 10V/div. (1:1 input attenuation)
The Siglent supplied probe is 300V max at 1:1 setting.

I have just received an email from Siglent.uk and they confirm that the 400 V maximum is when using a 10x probe.  The maximum input at the socket is 40 V, not the 400 V that is marked on the instrument.

If really was the case, we'd have blown up front ends of Siglents everywhere.....where are these popped Siglents?
Nowhere, the all have 400 V channel input ratings. 

[rf-loop]

If really was the case, we'd have blown up front ends of Siglents everywhere.....where are these popped Siglents?
Nowhere, the all have 400 V channel input ratings. 

Yes, even in these QC tests what I have done for every Siglent what I have sold.
But still smoke did not come out from any single unit.

For OQ: If this answer about input was from Siglent please tell more about this answer. There need do  company personnel internal training about products.

[rjeberhardt]

Edit add: And what is Siglent.uk ??

Sorry, that was meant to be siglent.eu

Russell.

[rjeberhardt]

For OQ: If this answer about input was from Siglent please tell more about this answer. There need do  company personnel internal training about products.

Email received from support@siglent.eu:

Code: [Select]

Thank you for your email.
Yes 400V is with a 10X probe!
We do recommend when you use this scope and you are testing equipment with a higher voltage then 40V to always set your scope and probe in the 10X setting. This is much safer!

Connection to mains or other high voltages can be done in the 10X setting but be aware the the scope has no isolated inputs!
The work safely with mains we recommend a isolated front end :
http://www.siglent.eu/isfe-siglent-isolated-front-end-module.html

If you have any other questions please let us know.
 Russell

[tautech]

For OQ: If this answer about input was from Siglent please tell more about this answer. There need do  company personnel internal training about products.

Email received from support@siglent.eu:

Code: [Select]

Thank you for your email.
Yes 400V is with a 10X probe!
We do recommend when you use this scope and you are testing equipment with a higher voltage then 40V to always set your scope and probe in the 10X setting. This is much safer!

Connection to mains or other high voltages can be done in the 10X setting but be aware the the scope has no isolated inputs!
The work safely with mains we recommend a isolated front end :
http://www.siglent.eu/isfe-siglent-isolated-front-end-module.html

If you have any other questions please let us know.
 Russell

Thanks for posting the email.

Both mine and rf-loops advice still applies.

For further info on the Siglent ISFE:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-isfe-scope-front-end-isolator-any-opinions/